2014/2015 Money Shield

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Bad news bears said:
Reckon they would have preferred more team success than individual success, not like he is a greensy product that has come through the ranks and had a breakout year. If i was them I would be bitterly disappointed.
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That's irrelevant to the question of getting value from your professional player though yeah? Everyside wants to win the flag, but when you're talking about getting value from your professional player its about their performances. They bought him to bolster there bowling, and to take the place of hurricane dylan. He did that.

He made a big contribution to team success.

If you want to analyse it. They didn't make finals because they didn't take 10 points from NEW or find an outright like the sides above them did.
 
Bad news bears said:
Team Success is ONLY measured by finals appearances.
I think you will find that most clubs which spent money on their coach like GB did would want a lot more than individual excellence from their boom recruit. No doubt he had an outstanding year but if you ask them what they would prefer to get out of their recruit at the start of the year what do you think they would say?
- Excellent bowling which returns a bowling award and not making finals or..
- Having an well rounded team with improvement in younger players and having a coach drill his team for a finals birth
I am not privvy to the influence he has had on the younger players or their improvement but its pretty bloody obvious it wasn't worth it if their young captain, keeper and opening bowler are no longer there.

There are more reasons why GB didn't make finals other than their inability to win an outright here or there. To suggest otherwise is discounting the consistently solid cricket played by the top 4 last season.
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Look at the difference between GB and Banyule. Dulip would have cost more than all Banyule recruits combined.
Agree Dulip had a good year but when you consider Hannan cost <20% of his price tag then it shows there are more effective ways to spend your money
 
The Reverend said:
How did you go with Dulip wandering?
North of 15k
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Dulip applied for the coaching job at BU 3-4 years ago, prior to our current coach coming on board. Was asking for quite a hefty sum back then, although he was offering a lot, and with a much younger body than GB signed this year.
He has not applied since, and surely now, despite obvious talent on field, would be looking for an off field role.
 
Bad news bears said:
Team Success is ONLY measured by finals appearances.
I think you will find that most clubs which spent money on their coach like GB did would want a lot more than individual excellence from their boom recruit. No doubt he had an outstanding year but if you ask them what they would prefer to get out of their recruit at the start of the year what do you think they would say?
- Excellent bowling which returns a bowling award and not making finals or..
- Having an well rounded team with improvement in younger players and having a coach drill his team for a finals birth
I am not privvy to the influence he has had on the younger players or their improvement but its pretty bloody obvious it wasn't worth it if their young captain, keeper and opening bowler are no longer there.

There are more reasons why GB didn't make finals other than their inability to win an outright here or there. To suggest otherwise is discounting the consistently solid cricket played by the top 4 last season.
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Mate they were 4 points from taking Banyule's spot. So while yes there's probably a number of reasons, had they knocked over NEW, Hurstbridge (like they nearly did) or LP outright like other sides did, they'd have taken Banyule's spot.

I don't play for G'borough so I'm also not privvy to how good a coach Dulip is, but clearly he was recruited for his playing record (as playing coaches almost always are). His numbers stood up.

You said if you were Greenborough you'd be filthy. I'm saying sure, but not with his performances, perhaps they should look elsewhere across the list, and why Hurricane Dylan, plus the other 3 have left in the last 2 off seasons. That kills a club, that's 4 of their first XI. Dylan is about 45 but the rest are all pretty young.

The club will be very dissapointed I'm guessing, and they won't be able to just recruit their way out of this one. They'll slide.
 
shortnwide said:
Mate they were 4 points from taking Banyule's spot. So while yes there's probably a number of reasons, had they knocked over NEW, Hurstbridge (like they nearly did) or LP outright like other sides did, they'd have taken Banyule's spot.

I don't play for G'borough so I'm also not privvy to how good a coach Dulip is, but clearly he was recruited for his playing record (as playing coaches almost always are). His numbers stood up.

You said if you were Greenborough you'd be filthy. I'm saying sure, but not with his performances, perhaps they should look elsewhere across the list, and why Hurricane Dylan, plus the other 3 have left in the last 2 off seasons. That kills a club, that's 4 of their first XI. Dylan is about 45 but the rest are all pretty young.

The club will be very dissapointed I'm guessing, and they won't be able to just recruit their way out of this one. They'll slide.
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If you compare his output to Gibbs who I'm guessing would be on less, but close to the same money -

Gibbs 290 overs, more runs, batted higher
Dulip 137 overs, 100 less runs

Im not saying he didn't have a good year but for big dollars you need a player to be workhorse and Dulip has never been that type of player.
He delivered what his history says he should have so again I think it was lack of homework or just bad policy by Greensborough.
 
Awkward said:
If you compare his output to Gibbs who I'm guessing would be on less, but close to the same money -

Gibbs 290 overs, more runs, batted higher
Dulip 137 overs, 100 less runs

Im not saying he didn't have a good year but for big dollars you need a player to be workhorse and Dulip has never been that type of player.
He delivered what his history says he should have so again I think it was lack of homework or just bad policy by Greensborough.
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Wouldn't be surprised if Gibbs didn't cost Eltham an arm and a leg. Eltham had 2 very good seasons out of Gibbs, especially this season. They would struggle to replace his output with 2 quality players.

Do you think Greensborough were expecting to win the flag this year? I didn't rate their list as being as good as Eltham, Mernda or Stars. And now they might be fighting to stay in the new 2nd grade.
 
Awkward said:
If you compare his output to Gibbs who I'm guessing would be on less, but close to the same money -

Gibbs 290 overs, more runs, batted higher
Dulip 137 overs, 100 less runs

Im not saying he didn't have a good year but for big dollars you need a player to be workhorse and Dulip has never been that type of player.
He delivered what his history says he should have so again I think it was lack of homework or just bad policy by Greensborough.
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Then again if you look at boros bowling list, they already had 4-5 workhorse type bowlers who bowl plenty of overs.
In the past they've always needed a strike bowler and going by stats that's exactly what they got from their coach. So possible to say it was well researched.

Besides bowling efforts from them, they lacked batsmen at the end of the day which cost them games more so than their bowling.
 
Awkward said:
Going for a player at the end of his career who has only ever been a 10 over a week guy and at his best a well above average batsman but now only an average one was again dumb by Borough. Especially for the massive overs he was paid and now they are still paying even after he is gone.
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overs what are we talkin
Awkward said:
Going for a player at the end of his career who has only ever been a 10 over a week guy and at his best a well above average batsman but now only an average one was again dumb by Borough. Especially for the massive overs he was paid and now they are still paying even after he is gone.
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cant see any club looking for hi s
Offpeg said:
Then again if you look at boros bowling list, they already had 4-5 workhorse type bowlers who bowl plenty of overs.
In the past they've always needed a strike bowler and going by stats that's exactly what they got from their coach. So possible to say it was well researched.

Besides bowling efforts from them, they lacked batsmen at the end of the day which cost them games more so than their bowling.
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you should apply for the borough coaching role Offpeg you seem to know the ins and outs of the club.
 
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WanderingUnity said:
Dulip applied for the coaching job at BU 3-4 years ago, prior to our current coach coming on board. Was asking for quite a hefty sum back then, although he was offering a lot, and with a much younger body than GB signed this year.
He has not applied since, and surely now, despite obvious talent on field, would be looking for an off field role.
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So he hasn't applied but have you made any contact to him?
 
Will be a very very interesting year in Money Shield next season,more so than Barclay.
I can see some clubs splashing the cash and being hell bent on staying up whilst I can also see others being realistic about their chances and not putting their club through the financial pain that others will feel and rolling the dice on survival with their current playing lists.
Tongs Tongs do you know if there is any promotion from B grade to Money this upcoming season.Im almost positive I heard at DVCA presentation night that there was to be NO promotion!
Also will Minney be going around again? Would be a big loss in any year he retires or steps away but with Scotty,at this stage,retiring it could be massive and will be interesting to see how you go post Minney.
With Socca close to 40,Hall,kennell,Donaldson all pushing the wrong side of 35 and past their best cricket it is certainly a tough time coming up or on the flip side exciting times.
From the outside you would say the Premiership window appears to have closed,for Money Shield at least.
 
Seems a bit pointless to promote a 2nd IX team when you're just going to drop them back next year no matter how well they do.

So what is the third tier first IX shield going to be named?
 
The Reverend said:
Will be a very very interesting year in Money Shield next season,more so than Barclay.
I can see some clubs splashing the cash and being hell bent on staying up whilst I can also see others being realistic about their chances and not putting their club through the financial pain that others will feel and rolling the dice on survival with their current playing lists.
Tongs Tongs do you know if there is any promotion from B grade to Money this upcoming season.Im almost positive I heard at DVCA presentation night that there was to be NO promotion!
Also will Minney be going around again? Would be a big loss in any year he retires or steps away but with Scotty,at this stage,retiring it could be massive and will be interesting to see how you go post Minney.
With Socca close to 40,Hall,kennell,Donaldson all pushing the wrong side of 35 and past their best cricket it is certainly a tough time coming up or on the flip side exciting times.
From the outside you would say the Premiership window appears to have closed,for Money Shield at least.
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To answer your first question - Based on the new (shocking) proposal which I believe at this stage is still to go ahead, you're right. There will be NO PROMOTION from B grade. But there will obviously still be relegation to even out the numbers.

As for your Eltham comments. I am not sure how you play in a Semi Final, lose 1 player and the window shuts? I am not going to say that Gibbsy isn't a big loss, his stats alone show that to be the case, let alone what he provides the club off field. But it gives us an opportunity to bring in another player, or promote those within the club, giving some of the younger guys (4 players under 23 in our 1s) more responsibility.

But you're off the mark with your other comments. 2 of the guys that you mentioned to be "on the wrong side of 35" are both still a couple of years off 35. And as for Skips. Lets be honest, the comp is struggling for batsmen, and when Skips has just won yet another comp batting average (and aggregate) then its fair to say you should probably be writing off the youth of today and not a veteran as he clearly has plenty of ability regardless of age.
 
Midwicket85 said:
overs what are we talkin
cant see any club looking for hi s

you should apply for the borough coaching role Offpeg you seem to know the ins and outs of the club.
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Perhaps I could! Though all I've done is look at stats as my white collar job allows, just like anyone else so no really a in and out of club in comparison to yourself knowing who's staying and leaving...
Thanks for the vote if confidence though :D
 
The Reverend said:
So he hasn't applied but have you made any contact to him?
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In my opinion I can't see them gaining much from him as a player, as mentioned the standard of bats have dropped off so I doubt their bowling will be an achillies heal. They did quite well last year with the ball, they had a few bad games with the bat which cost them but were never really chasing big scores
 
Tongs said:
To answer your first question - Based on the new (shocking) proposal which I believe at this stage is still to go ahead, you're right. There will be NO PROMOTION from B grade. But there will obviously still be relegation to even out the numbers.

As for your Eltham comments. I am not sure how you play in a Semi Final, lose 1 player and the window shuts? I am not going to say that Gibbsy isn't a big loss, his stats alone show that to be the case, let alone what he provides the club off field. But it gives us an opportunity to bring in another player, or promote those within the club, giving some of the younger guys (4 players under 23 in our 1s) more responsibility.

But you're off the mark with your other comments. 2 of the guys that you mentioned to be "on the wrong side of 35" are both still a couple of years off 35. And as for Skips. Lets be honest, the comp is struggling for batsmen, and when Skips has just won yet another comp batting average (and aggregate) then its fair to say you should probably be writing off the youth of today and not a veteran as he clearly has plenty of ability regardless of age.
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I think it's an exciting time for Eltham ahead. Losing two players of such a high caliber gives your younger players more responsibility and greater chance to develop in terms of being more accountable for the teams success. They'll all have to find their A game more frequently now which I think can only be a good thing.
Not to say that your boys depended on only a few as successful cricket cannot be played in that way, but just mentally it's a good change
 
Offpeg said:
I think it's an exciting time for Eltham ahead. Losing two players of such a high caliber gives your younger players more responsibility and greater chance to develop in terms of being more accountable for the teams success. They'll all have to find their A game more frequently now which I think can only be a good thing.
Not to say that your boys depended on only a few as successful cricket cannot be played in that way, but just mentally it's a good change
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Very much agree. These younger guys have really started to find their feet the last season or two, and hopefully can continue to do so. That might mean for a tough year, but your club and players are better in the long run, and don't have to buy a whole side like some clubs are choosing to do.

FYI - We've only lost 1 player in Gibbsy. Not two.
 
Tongs said:
Very much agree. These younger guys have really started to find their feet the last season or two, and hopefully can continue to do so. That might mean for a tough year, but your club and players are better in the long run, and don't have to buy a whole side like some clubs are choosing to do.

FYI - We've only lost 1 player in Gibbsy. Not two.
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May as well be two.....................
 
MSW said:
Look at the difference between GB and Banyule. Dulip would have cost more than all Banyule recruits combined.
Agree Dulip had a good year but when you consider Hannan cost <20% of his price tag then it shows there are more effective ways to spend your money
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Banyule recruits? 7 of the GF 11 played juniors at the club, 2 of the remaining 4 have been at the club for over 10 years, one was back to the club after a couple of seasons playing Sunday social cricket with his mates and the other was a friend of a friend who only played the last 4 games.
 
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