CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
- Thread starter The Mentalist
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Uncle Mick
Active Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
From the tone of the meeting, my assumption would be there's been growing concern and the CMCA have taken action. It's pleasing to know they seem genuine, however I'm still sceptical of these umpires actually fronting up to training.
In respect to rating the standard; in my eyes there are those who are capable, those who seem capable, but appear disinterested in the game other than to receive their money and those who are seemingly incapable. The standard of some umpires hasn't changed over a sustained period which is where my scepticism is born.
As a bowler I quite often feel hard done by in respect to LBW decisions. However, I've found them to be more consistent in the last few years. Generally in favour of the batsmen, but consistency is all we can ask for and I won't begrudge any decision where there's consistency. Having come back from Longmuir, it's a bit tougher when my expectations are higher, but I've learn to deal with it.
The idea proposed from Monday night is somewhat comforting, but it remains to be seen. Whilst you might think they've left it late, I'd prefer late than never. And if it can continue into 09/10 then we should begin to see a marked improvement.
There's also the issue of a difference in opinion. I think it would be remiss of the Association not to entertain the idea of a forum involving captain's and umpires, so that everyone has a basic understanding of what to expect rather than the continual innuendo and blaming of an umpire's competence.
From the tone of the meeting, my assumption would be there's been growing concern and the CMCA have taken action. It's pleasing to know they seem genuine, however I'm still sceptical of these umpires actually fronting up to training.
In respect to rating the standard; in my eyes there are those who are capable, those who seem capable, but appear disinterested in the game other than to receive their money and those who are seemingly incapable. The standard of some umpires hasn't changed over a sustained period which is where my scepticism is born.
As a bowler I quite often feel hard done by in respect to LBW decisions. However, I've found them to be more consistent in the last few years. Generally in favour of the batsmen, but consistency is all we can ask for and I won't begrudge any decision where there's consistency. Having come back from Longmuir, it's a bit tougher when my expectations are higher, but I've learn to deal with it.
The idea proposed from Monday night is somewhat comforting, but it remains to be seen. Whilst you might think they've left it late, I'd prefer late than never. And if it can continue into 09/10 then we should begin to see a marked improvement.
There's also the issue of a difference in opinion. I think it would be remiss of the Association not to entertain the idea of a forum involving captain's and umpires, so that everyone has a basic understanding of what to expect rather than the continual innuendo and blaming of an umpire's competence.
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
It will be interesting to see if the umpires have been coached on the heat rule this saturday. For memory this will most likely be the first saturday for the new 39 degree rule to apply. Hopefully captains and umpires will show some commonsense depending on how hot it actually gets.
Good luck to everyone on the weekend.
Ps. Glad we're batting!
It will be interesting to see if the umpires have been coached on the heat rule this saturday. For memory this will most likely be the first saturday for the new 39 degree rule to apply. Hopefully captains and umpires will show some commonsense depending on how hot it actually gets.
Good luck to everyone on the weekend.
Ps. Glad we're batting!
CLOCKER
Active Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
Bottsy what is to coach? The rule is straightforward.It is how it is implemented which will be the test. If play commences and the temperature exceeds 39 degrees during the course of the match then the umpire is entitled to take the players off the ground.If both captains agree to play on and someone drops dead due to a heat related issue then the umpire had better hope the house and other assets are in the wife's name or a trust.Bottom line, responsibility will fall back on him.
Interesting how the rules are delibrately fuzzy when it comes to the issue of non agreement between the Captains.Based on last weeks precedence I presume that the juniors will again be cancelled this week?
**********************************************************
If during the course of the game the ambient temperature rises to 39 C or higher, play may be abandoned by mutual agreement of team captains.Temperature is to be determined by phone call. The time at which
the game was abandoned, and the temperature, must be recorded in both scorebooks. This information must appear on the final Match Report. Managers are urged to act sensibly on this issue to ensure the welfare of
their players.
9.1.3.3 Where captains cannot agree on whether the match should be abandoned, the aggrieved party may lodge a protest
(contact CMCA secretarywithin 48 hours). The CMCA Executive will then make a ruling, and allocate points as it sees fit. Note - CMCA is aware of the potential for managers to abuse the rule
Example – insisting on abandoning a match when the temperature is 37 C in order to salvage points from a match that their team is clearly going to lose. CMCA will use Bureau of Meteorology records to determine what the actual
temperature really was.
Bottsy;321346 said:
Bottsy what is to coach? The rule is straightforward.It is how it is implemented which will be the test. If play commences and the temperature exceeds 39 degrees during the course of the match then the umpire is entitled to take the players off the ground.If both captains agree to play on and someone drops dead due to a heat related issue then the umpire had better hope the house and other assets are in the wife's name or a trust.Bottom line, responsibility will fall back on him.
Interesting how the rules are delibrately fuzzy when it comes to the issue of non agreement between the Captains.Based on last weeks precedence I presume that the juniors will again be cancelled this week?
**********************************************************
If during the course of the game the ambient temperature rises to 39 C or higher, play may be abandoned by mutual agreement of team captains.Temperature is to be determined by phone call. The time at which
the game was abandoned, and the temperature, must be recorded in both scorebooks. This information must appear on the final Match Report. Managers are urged to act sensibly on this issue to ensure the welfare of
their players.
9.1.3.3 Where captains cannot agree on whether the match should be abandoned, the aggrieved party may lodge a protest
(contact CMCA secretarywithin 48 hours). The CMCA Executive will then make a ruling, and allocate points as it sees fit. Note - CMCA is aware of the potential for managers to abuse the rule
Example – insisting on abandoning a match when the temperature is 37 C in order to salvage points from a match that their team is clearly going to lose. CMCA will use Bureau of Meteorology records to determine what the actual
temperature really was.
Uncle Mick
Active Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
I suppose your example wouldn't be to dissimilar to ANA's pathetic effort to salvage points in a 1-day game last season in the wet. Play was abandoned a few times due to the rain and when we finally got a result they disputed it because we'd gone over for time. Had they not f*cked around earlier in the day refusing to get out on the ground, the result would've come inside the allocated time. Instead they disputed the result to the CMCA, claimed 3 points and proved to be a bunch of pretenders anyway.
And no, I'm not still bitter about it.
I suppose your example wouldn't be to dissimilar to ANA's pathetic effort to salvage points in a 1-day game last season in the wet. Play was abandoned a few times due to the rain and when we finally got a result they disputed it because we'd gone over for time. Had they not f*cked around earlier in the day refusing to get out on the ground, the result would've come inside the allocated time. Instead they disputed the result to the CMCA, claimed 3 points and proved to be a bunch of pretenders anyway.
And no, I'm not still bitter about it.
Sugar
Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
Mick, we were only 20 runs short of winning that game, so be grateful it was only a draw.
By the way, ANA were happy to chase West Bentleigh's score in Round 4 while your former 'go for the 6 points' club were happy to sit back and pull stumps instead of giving Mackie the opportunity to chase their score.
Time to move on buddy.
Mick, we were only 20 runs short of winning that game, so be grateful it was only a draw.
By the way, ANA were happy to chase West Bentleigh's score in Round 4 while your former 'go for the 6 points' club were happy to sit back and pull stumps instead of giving Mackie the opportunity to chase their score.
Time to move on buddy.
Uncle Mick
Active Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
Closer to 30 or 40, Sugar. And the overs were bowled out, hence a result was achieved.
Different set of circumstances. The game was called off before a ball was bowled. Your boys were cock-a-hoop about chasing 160, until you were 5/30 and then played for the draw.
I've moved on, bud. Just haven't forgotten it.
Closer to 30 or 40, Sugar. And the overs were bowled out, hence a result was achieved.
Different set of circumstances. The game was called off before a ball was bowled. Your boys were cock-a-hoop about chasing 160, until you were 5/30 and then played for the draw.
I've moved on, bud. Just haven't forgotten it.
The Mentalist
Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
Hi Uncle,
Geez mate, i reckon you had better check your old clubs history of '' bending the rules'' before you pump them up to be sqeeky clean in relation to heat and rain.
Captain Kimmi has tried every trick in the book, always trying to gain the advantage to suit the yellow caps.
Please Mick, let it go, every club has to abide by the rule together, if they don't, then its open slather to use the conditions to best suit themselves.
You might even have to think about this week when the champ starts unleashing and your boys are chasing the pill down Highett Road.
Uncle Mick;321513 said:I suppose your example wouldn't be to dissimilar to ANA's pathetic effort to salvage points in a 1-day game last season in the wet. Play was abandoned a few times due to the rain and when we finally got a result they disputed it because we'd gone over for time. Had they not f*cked around earlier in the day refusing to get out on the ground, the result would've come inside the allocated time. Instead they disputed the result to the CMCA, claimed 3 points and proved to be a bunch of pretenders anyway.
And no, I'm not still bitter about it.
Hi Uncle,
Geez mate, i reckon you had better check your old clubs history of '' bending the rules'' before you pump them up to be sqeeky clean in relation to heat and rain.
Captain Kimmi has tried every trick in the book, always trying to gain the advantage to suit the yellow caps.
Please Mick, let it go, every club has to abide by the rule together, if they don't, then its open slather to use the conditions to best suit themselves.
You might even have to think about this week when the champ starts unleashing and your boys are chasing the pill down Highett Road.
BrianFantana
New Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
Sug, I think you'll find that the "Machine" weren't all that keen to press on in Round 4 also.
Sugar;321519 said:
Sug, I think you'll find that the "Machine" weren't all that keen to press on in Round 4 also.
Uncle Mick
Active Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
Each to their own, Arch. I'm a firm believer in playing for a result. At the end of it all, you'll cop your good days and bad days.
And good luck to the Champ if he smashes us on the weekend (by all reports, it's not beyond him to smash us down Highett Rd from Hurly). He's in red hot form from what we've been told of last week. If he gets going and we're chasing leather all day in the heat, then so be it. I'd rather die wondering than play for a draw.
Archie Roach;321530 said:Hi Uncle,
Geez mate, i reckon you had better check your old clubs history of '' bending the rules'' before you pump them up to be sqeeky clean in relation to heat and rain.
Captain Kimmi has tried every trick in the book, always trying to gain the advantage to suit the yellow caps.
Please Mick, let it go, every club has to abide by the rule together, if they don't, then its open slather to use the conditions to best suit themselves.
You might even have to think about this week when the champ starts unleashing and your boys are chasing the pill down Highett Road.
Each to their own, Arch. I'm a firm believer in playing for a result. At the end of it all, you'll cop your good days and bad days.
And good luck to the Champ if he smashes us on the weekend (by all reports, it's not beyond him to smash us down Highett Rd from Hurly). He's in red hot form from what we've been told of last week. If he gets going and we're chasing leather all day in the heat, then so be it. I'd rather die wondering than play for a draw.
Sugar
Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
Seriously Mick, despite your moral crusading about "playing to win", how can a vengeful post dedicated solely to a game more than 12 months old be deemed as moving on?
Unless you go back to East Sandy, you won't get a chance to redeem it against our ones, so there's no point reviving the dead.
Uncle Mick;321528 said:
Seriously Mick, despite your moral crusading about "playing to win", how can a vengeful post dedicated solely to a game more than 12 months old be deemed as moving on?
Unless you go back to East Sandy, you won't get a chance to redeem it against our ones, so there's no point reviving the dead.
Uncle Mick
Active Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
Don't be so precious, Sugar. It was the most recent example of abusing the weather conditions that I've been involved in. Relevant to the example proposed in the previous post. There's nothing I need to redeem. My experiences with you blokes have been good ones, but that day left a bad taste. Certainly not here to judge your boys on one game. It's a simple case of discussing the current topic and using an example.
Sugar;321543 said:
Don't be so precious, Sugar. It was the most recent example of abusing the weather conditions that I've been involved in. Relevant to the example proposed in the previous post. There's nothing I need to redeem. My experiences with you blokes have been good ones, but that day left a bad taste. Certainly not here to judge your boys on one game. It's a simple case of discussing the current topic and using an example.
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
Mate, I know the rules. They're actually not that straight forward. Although it will probably favour us on Saturday, once it hits 39 degrees play should cease until it cools down and the captains should have no say otherwise. I have played in the 40's before and it can managed with smart umpiring and good team management but if you're going to have a heat rule it has to be clearcut.
CLOCKER;321489 said:
Mate, I know the rules. They're actually not that straight forward. Although it will probably favour us on Saturday, once it hits 39 degrees play should cease until it cools down and the captains should have no say otherwise. I have played in the 40's before and it can managed with smart umpiring and good team management but if you're going to have a heat rule it has to be clearcut.
Uncle Mick
Active Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
It's an interesting situation we have ourselves in the second grade. Given the effect it will have on the Woolnough placings it is highly conceivable that most sides will endeavour to play for a result. Perhaps Kingston Heath won't be too concerned by a draw, nor Moorabbin West, but Union, Highett West, Hampton United, Cluden, East Sandy and Asp/Edi all can't rely on the weather to dictate their finals hopes. A draw could be costly. Asp/Edi are guaranteed to miss out if the round is drawn. They'll find themselves a game behind Union and still 3 points shy of the teams who are currently 5-4. Given that in Rd.11 we play Cluden & Hampton Utd play Union that's 4 sides above them on points playing each other, which effectively means that 2 will remain that way.
It's an interesting situation we have ourselves in the second grade. Given the effect it will have on the Woolnough placings it is highly conceivable that most sides will endeavour to play for a result. Perhaps Kingston Heath won't be too concerned by a draw, nor Moorabbin West, but Union, Highett West, Hampton United, Cluden, East Sandy and Asp/Edi all can't rely on the weather to dictate their finals hopes. A draw could be costly. Asp/Edi are guaranteed to miss out if the round is drawn. They'll find themselves a game behind Union and still 3 points shy of the teams who are currently 5-4. Given that in Rd.11 we play Cluden & Hampton Utd play Union that's 4 sides above them on points playing each other, which effectively means that 2 will remain that way.
FrequentFourFlayer
Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
sugar/archie, a few points..
- the exact same thing happened the year before mick came to east sandy with a game with ana. the weather was a bit slippery and the boys from king george were the first to get out there until the game started to turn easts way. once the rain came we were out there sweeping the pitch when it cleared whereas stu campbell was having a sook about the safety of his players (even though they were batting)
- the mackie /esbc game being called off was a mutual decision and sandy had 240 on the board so i dont think we were exactly running for the hills!
plus u werent there so i dont think that you know enough of the facts (ie condition of the ground) to comment
- sugar.. given ur form, i doubt that u will have much of chance to redeem urself in the ones either
- on the above game - as this year esbc didnt win the flag and were struggling to make finals, campbell commented that esbc should have won more games throughout the year and spruiking about ana being on top of sandy and therefore had the luxury of being able to play for the draw.. perhaps campbells negative attitude and obvious aversion towards winning games is a reflection of the success that his side has achieved (read: not very much)
sugar/archie, a few points..
- the exact same thing happened the year before mick came to east sandy with a game with ana. the weather was a bit slippery and the boys from king george were the first to get out there until the game started to turn easts way. once the rain came we were out there sweeping the pitch when it cleared whereas stu campbell was having a sook about the safety of his players (even though they were batting)
- the mackie /esbc game being called off was a mutual decision and sandy had 240 on the board so i dont think we were exactly running for the hills!
plus u werent there so i dont think that you know enough of the facts (ie condition of the ground) to comment
- sugar.. given ur form, i doubt that u will have much of chance to redeem urself in the ones either
- on the above game - as this year esbc didnt win the flag and were struggling to make finals, campbell commented that esbc should have won more games throughout the year and spruiking about ana being on top of sandy and therefore had the luxury of being able to play for the draw.. perhaps campbells negative attitude and obvious aversion towards winning games is a reflection of the success that his side has achieved (read: not very much)
The Mentalist
Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
FFF,
Some fair comments, but you missed the point, what i was trying to get across was that the boys from Duncan St have been using the rules to their advantage when possible over a long period of time.
Good luck to them, but when another club tries to the same thing, it becomes more of an issue.
The yellow caps are not a '' protected species '', they are however, a '' successful species '', you have to expect other clubs to try and take it up to them whenever they get a chance, or whenever they can apply the rules on the day that best suits them.
Regarding SC's captaincy, he has definently gone through his apprenticeship by now, its also a bit harder to captain when you are re-building a team of young blokes.
I wonder how good Kimmi would have been if he didn't have a decade of great players under him.
FrequentFourFlayer;321712 said:
FFF,
Some fair comments, but you missed the point, what i was trying to get across was that the boys from Duncan St have been using the rules to their advantage when possible over a long period of time.
Good luck to them, but when another club tries to the same thing, it becomes more of an issue.
The yellow caps are not a '' protected species '', they are however, a '' successful species '', you have to expect other clubs to try and take it up to them whenever they get a chance, or whenever they can apply the rules on the day that best suits them.
Regarding SC's captaincy, he has definently gone through his apprenticeship by now, its also a bit harder to captain when you are re-building a team of young blokes.
I wonder how good Kimmi would have been if he didn't have a decade of great players under him.
FrequentFourFlayer
Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
yes fair call u do try to bend the rules but his attitude was the problem. sooking and whinging when he needed to stop worrying about the weather and tell his players to worry about the game and trying to actually make the target which was still achievable at the time. on "kimmi" i can guarantee that he would have said to his players that if the umps say we r playing we are and its up to the batters in the get on with it and make the runs..
....i wouldnt worry too much about a man who has won 13 longmuir flags and 12 club champion awards (among "great" players).. id probly just shut my trap cos it aint a winning argument bud!
yes fair call u do try to bend the rules but his attitude was the problem. sooking and whinging when he needed to stop worrying about the weather and tell his players to worry about the game and trying to actually make the target which was still achievable at the time. on "kimmi" i can guarantee that he would have said to his players that if the umps say we r playing we are and its up to the batters in the get on with it and make the runs..
....i wouldnt worry too much about a man who has won 13 longmuir flags and 12 club champion awards (among "great" players).. id probly just shut my trap cos it aint a winning argument bud!
Uncle Mick
Active Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
Unfortunate what the drawn round has done to some. In Woolnough, East Sandy and Asp/Edi have to win outright to pinch a finals berth.
East Sandy's is an unfortunate result of a bad percentage that sees the 4 sides immediately above them all playing each other, meaning 2 will remain in front, with those 2 taking 3rd & 4th positions.
Asp/Edi are 3 points behind ES, therefore suffer the same fate - except for the fact they'll miss out on points as opposed to percentage.
Effectively, the 1st semi final will now come from the winner of the Highett West v Cluden and Hampton United v Brighton Union encounter - unless of course, ES or A/E win outright.
Unfortunate what the drawn round has done to some. In Woolnough, East Sandy and Asp/Edi have to win outright to pinch a finals berth.
East Sandy's is an unfortunate result of a bad percentage that sees the 4 sides immediately above them all playing each other, meaning 2 will remain in front, with those 2 taking 3rd & 4th positions.
Asp/Edi are 3 points behind ES, therefore suffer the same fate - except for the fact they'll miss out on points as opposed to percentage.
Effectively, the 1st semi final will now come from the winner of the Highett West v Cluden and Hampton United v Brighton Union encounter - unless of course, ES or A/E win outright.
thSerious th6 thSmasher
New Member
Re: CMCA- Ommies to remain in top grade
You're a fat lump Sugar. ANA are as soft as fabric softener. You were no chance of winning that game. We were deliberately serving up pies to try and buy the last few wickets. Had a normal game taken place we would have thumped you and you would have got no where near our runs.
As said by FFF, we hardly "ran for the hills" against Mackie earlier this season. It was the umpires decision and i highly doubt those team of fat lumps would have got near our 240. The fattest lump of all would've been good for a few boundaries but on what would have been a very slow outfield, 240 was about 50-60 runs too many.
Sugar;321519 said:Mick, we were only 20 runs short of winning that game, so be grateful it was only a draw.
By the way, ANA were happy to chase West Bentleigh's score in Round 4 while your former 'go for the 6 points' club were happy to sit back and pull stumps instead of giving Mackie the opportunity to chase their score.
Time to move on buddy.
You're a fat lump Sugar. ANA are as soft as fabric softener. You were no chance of winning that game. We were deliberately serving up pies to try and buy the last few wickets. Had a normal game taken place we would have thumped you and you would have got no where near our runs.
As said by FFF, we hardly "ran for the hills" against Mackie earlier this season. It was the umpires decision and i highly doubt those team of fat lumps would have got near our 240. The fattest lump of all would've been good for a few boundaries but on what would have been a very slow outfield, 240 was about 50-60 runs too many.
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