how to bat for spin bowling

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Re: how to bat for spin bowling

Out here in our club level; i have observed that mostly batsmen don't observer the spinner's wirst very closely..So my advice is to observe closely the spinner's wrist to understand his bowling variations...
Practice against spinners in the nets to get more confidence and exprience.
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

Virendersingh.berthwal;353462 said:
Out here in our club level; i have observed that mostly batsmen don't observer the spinner's wirst very closely..So my advice is to observe closely the spinner's wrist to understand his bowling variations...
Practice against spinners in the nets to get more confidence and exprience.
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I admire the batsman who manages to observe the wrist. I probably would find it easier looking at the seam, but if this is scrambled I would be screwed. Any way top batsmen still seemed to have huge trouble reading Muralitharan and Mendis. I read that even the lankans still find difficulty reading Mendis in the nets.

Warne only had the leggie and topspinner and yet see what happened. The flipper was supposed to be easier to read. The slider might have confused them though.
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

After all our discussions over at the Wrist Spin thread where we've discovered it seems the whole world is oblivious to the intracasies of spin, further reinforced by the fact that the T 20 commentators don't know a Iverson-Gleeson ball when it staring them in the face I'm very sceptical that many pro batsmen know what a Flipper looks like let along all the other variations. I reckon the best may spot a Wrong Un but would totally mis-read a 'Wrong Wrong Un' in the same way that they can't read a Doosra from an off-spinning delivery from Murali. Most would be able to differentiate the Leg Break from the Wrong Un and I reckon that's about it. At club level I'd say the same kind of thing for the most experienced batsman. One of ours a bloke in his late 40's says he hasn't got a clue what I'm going to come up with when I bowl and that it's pointless trying to read my deliveries, my captain has said the same.

With a bit of banter from the wicket keeper and the slips and loads of 'oohhs' every time the ball goes through and histrionics from you the bowler each time. That combined with bowling on the off-stump with the potential for variation the batsmen haven't a dogs hope.
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

someblokecalleddave;353498 said:
After all our discussions over at the Wrist Spin thread where we've discovered it seems the whole world is oblivious to the intracasies of spin, further reinforced by the fact that the T 20 commentators don't know a Iverson-Gleeson ball when it staring them in the face I'm very sceptical that many pro batsmen know what a Flipper looks like let along all the other variations. I reckon the best may spot a Wrong Un but would totally mis-read a 'Wrong Wrong Un' in the same way that they can't read a Doosra from an off-spinning delivery from Murali. Most would be able to differentiate the Leg Break from the Wrong Un and I reckon that's about it. At club level I'd say the same kind of thing for the most experienced batsman. One of ours a bloke in his late 40's says he hasn't got a clue what I'm going to come up with when I bowl and that it's pointless trying to read my deliveries, my captain has said the same.

With a bit of banter from the wicket keeper and the slips and loads of 'oohhs' every time the ball goes through and histrionics from you the bowler each time. That combined with bowling on the off-stump with the potential for variation the batsmen haven't a dogs hope.
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I agree. As i had said one time, gavascar one of the finest indian batsmen even on replay did not pick harbhajan's topspinner with the seam rotating to the batsman. He remarked that the bowler was not turning it. Boycott as well could not pick kumble's flipper. So if the top brass have no idea, well I do not think the others can.

I do not recall anyone intest cricket bowling the wrong, wrong one.In fact besides grimmett and philpott I doubt how many spinners experiment and enjoy doing it, keeping in mind that probably thay are more gifted and things fall in place more easily.

Having said that it is refreshing seeing mendis resurrect iverson deliveries, and was the carrom ball ever bowled before?
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

all this leg spinning stuff is going over my head... i myself dont have much trouble playing them as a right hander because my greatest weakness is my offstump awareness so if a ball isnt spinning back in towards them i'm alright, but then again i havent played against many leggies as good as dave sounds. i play in reserve grade and any leggie good enough to confuse me seems to automatically get put in the A grade side... us offies have it tough.
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

Currently with a bag of 4 wickets in each game at the minute my captain puts it down to the fact that I can make the ball go either way, speed up as it hits the pitch or almost stop. It's just a case that you've never played against a proper wrist spinner. And yeah you're right there's talk of me playing League cricket in the Saturday 2nd team rather than here in the Sunday 2nds which is friendly games.
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

I like to think (and have been told) that i am a really good player of spin.
I try and keep it simple though otherwise you are looking for to much and you can get confused.
I love to use my feet and try and get a half volley of a full toss if you can achieve this then it does not matter which way it spins you should be able to smother it.
Watch for the ball release if it gets tossed above your eyes then "go", if it does not then the ball will be flatter there for staying back is best possibly looking for the short ball to pull and cut.
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

Best piece of advice I've heard while playing spin is "Play as late as possible and as often on the back foot as possible." Most of the wickets spinners get are when batsmen try to attack them, get boundaries off them. Usually 4-5 singles off every over is very easy.
At club level, most spinners will also give away an additional bad ball each over, just be sure to put them away and you'll be fine. Trying to read the spinners from hand is good and the really good players of spin manage to do it, but in reality, at club level most spinners can be played easily off the pitch because they don't quite bowl it at a pace to punish you if you cant read it from the hand.

More importantly as a batsman you know that each ball, regardless of the name it has, can do only one combination of the following things :
1) Turn In/Out
2) Accelerate/decelerate
3) Bounce High/low
So, whether you know how and why the ball does a particular combination of these is immaterial as long as you can spot it early enough.
If you are good at playing fast bowling, it does mean that you aren't slow in your reflexes, so you should be able to read them off the pitch in the worst case.
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

shrek;354717 said:
Best piece of advice I've heard while playing spin is "Play as late as possible and as often on the back foot as possible." Most of the wickets spinners get are when batsmen try to attack them, get boundaries off them. Usually 4-5 singles off every over is very easy.
At club level, most spinners will also give away an additional bad ball each over, just be sure to put them away and you'll be fine. Trying to read the spinners from hand is good and the really good players of spin manage to do it, but in reality, at club level most spinners can be played easily off the pitch because they don't quite bowl it at a pace to punish you if you cant read it from the hand.

More importantly as a batsman you know that each ball, regardless of the name it has, can do only one combination of the following things :
1) Turn In/Out
2) Accelerate/decelerate
3) Bounce High/low
So, whether you know how and why the ball does a particular combination of these is immaterial as long as you can spot it early enough.
If you are good at playing fast bowling, it does mean that you aren't slow in your reflexes, so you should be able to read them off the pitch in the worst case.
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A backspinner/flipper and topspinner, may get you in trouble playing back, it happened to stewart and cullinan who were not club cricketers. Getting cocky against leggies is dangerous, they are crafty in general, so i think reading the hand or seam movement in the air is the way to go, but they will still get you.
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

None of my wicket keepers or batsmen on my team have a clue as to what I'm doing and some of these blokes are in their late 40's having played cricket all their lives or are spinners themselves. I have to give them (wicket keepers) signals to indicate what the balls going to do. I didn't do so well this week at my match -

2 for 23 off 9 overs (2 maidens) and the reason as far as I could make out was simply because the main bloke that rode out the 9 overs just blocked every shot or just let the ball spin away to off to the Keeper. He probably made 10-15 runs off me and they were all made when I was exploring options down the leg-side which retrospectively I should have given up on after the 3rd attempt as there wasn't any bounce (Wet wicket) and he was obviously far stronger down his leg-side. Thing is his approach and his mates that came and went doing very much the same thing were all bowled out for 110. Weirdly they seemed to be under the impression that their fast bowlers would then do a better job on our batsmen. They looked very good and reasonably fast but whereas you have to work at getting a slow spinning ball across the boundary, you've only got to get the bat on a fast ball and it's gone for four. We one with 7 wickets in hand.

Spin wins all the time - it's the way forward never let it be neglected especially the real stuff (Wrist Spin).
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

someblokecalleddave;354739 said:
None of my wicket keepers or batsmen on my team have a clue as to what I'm doing and some of these blokes are in their late 40's having played cricket all their lives or are spinners themselves. I have to give them (wicket keepers) signals to indicate what the balls going to do. I didn't do so well this week at my match -

2 for 23 off 9 overs (2 maidens) and the reason as far as I could make out was simply because the main bloke that rode out the 9 overs just blocked every shot or just let the ball spin away to off to the Keeper. He probably made 10-15 runs off me and they were all made when I was exploring options down the leg-side which retrospectively I should have given up on after the 3rd attempt as there wasn't any bounce (Wet wicket) and he was obviously far stronger down his leg-side. Thing is his approach and his mates that came and went doing very much the same thing were all bowled out for 110. Weirdly they seemed to be under the impression that their fast bowlers would then do a better job on our batsmen. They looked very good and reasonably fast but whereas you have to work at getting a slow spinning ball across the boundary, you've only got to get the bat on a fast ball and it's gone for four. We one with 7 wickets in hand.

Spin wins all the time - it's the way forward never let it be neglected especially the real stuff (Wrist Spin).
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With the flipper if it tends to go offside in your case do you also signal to third man to go finer just in case the wicket keeper misses it despite the signals?
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

My bog standard flipper goes that way yeah, but the wicket keepers have so far been up to the job. I'm not that confident enough to start dictating where the fielders should go. Currently looking at the things that have been happening over the last 5 games, the only positions I'd feel confident about making decisions about would be -

1. Slips
2. Point
3. Backward Sq Leg
4. Deep Square leg
5. Long On
6. Short Extra cover
7. Mid Wicket
8. Wicket keeper (before I forget him)!

These are all positions where there are consistent catches or near catches when I bowl. But I reckon I can almost negate all the Leg-side positions by just bowling at the off-stump and turning it away from the bat. It seems that if I bowl bouncy top-spinners or a full toss as the batsman first comes to the crease slightly legside of the middle their eyes light up and you can see them think 'I'll have some of that' and they hit a ball out to backward point or deep square leg and they're frequently caught.
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

sadspinner;354732 said:
A backspinner/flipper and topspinner, may get you in trouble playing back, it happened to stewart and cullinan who were not club cricketers. Getting cocky against leggies is dangerous, they are crafty in general, so i think reading the hand or seam movement in the air is the way to go, but they will still get you.
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Yes I realize that, but in general nothing is risk free. Notice how the advise was only about "as often as possible" That is meant to convey that a batsman should avoid lunging a delivery that is given a little air. Even when they are nicely flighted, many balls can be played off the backfoot.

Taking stewart and cullinan as an example is not right, because they had no clue what warne was doing. They did ok against some lesser known leg spinners for example - upul chandana of SL. Taking the best exponent of an art and pitting them against those clueless about it will ofcourse make them seem bad.

When they say "play back often" It is more like how Dravid or Laxman played against warne. Or just notice how Sehwag played against mendis in Ind V SL test series.

A Flipper may get you, but most bowlers cant bowl a good enough flipper to do that. What most bowlers do when they see you sticking back is throw in the faster one over the top of fingers like a seamer- which can easily be spotted a mile away. On the other hand, most spinners do have a decent flight trajectory and can get you out driving or jabbing the balls off the front foot if you cannot read the spin, flight and bounce perfectly.

And when I said stay back, It doesn't mean I'm getting cocky. It is acknowledgement of the fact that spinners can get you out when you try to hit them out of the park on front foot and is a way of respecting the spinner.
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

i cant help but think that we have over complicated it here and made the problem worse...
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

well it wasnt my question in the first place.... i think the person whose question it was hasnt posted in this thread for quite a while now...
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

That's pretty normal them not looking in to see if anyone asnwered and saying cheers. Not to matter though it ends up on the internet and other people find it during searches. Besides that all the answers are useful for the likes of me as well, being a bowler.

I had a nightmare spell agains a leftie on Sunday. 1st three overs without the leftie I was opening with a fast at the other end. I took 3-2-1-2 (That's 3 overs, 2 x maidens, 1 run made against me for 2 wickets for those that don't know the stats) then the leftie came on and without any confidence with my Wrong Un to turn it away from the bat I was screwed and he went on to his 27 runs off the next 2 overs - Gutted. Needless to say I was taken off bowling duties thankfully!
 
Re: how to bat for spin bowling

i reckon,

anything short, attack with a cut or pull,
anything full, attack with drives,
anything on a good length, defend with soft hands

but that depends on the bounce they get, i mean i know a spinner you can cut off a good length, because he gets a lot of bounce

also, dont be intimidated by the close in fielders
 
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