IPL and World Series Cricket

[Boris]

IPL and World Series Cricket

There are a lot of holes in this idea, and it will probably never even be considered, but I was wondering if there was anyone out there willing to improve or discard the idea.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when World Series Cricket started it drew players away from playing tests for their country and players where going there for the money and playing conditions. Is that not what is happening with the IPL? Players are missing games for their country, or risking the possibility of injury to play for an Indian franchise just for the money. If Symonds can make $1.4 million dollars or whatever it is for a few short games of cricket, then why should he continue to play for Australia, other then patriotism? World Series Cricket almost destroyed test cricket, and I think the IPL is on its way to destroying both ODIs and Tests, simply because of economic reasons. The reason why World Series Cricket did not destroy tests was because the ICC matched the funding and joined with World Series to create two forms of the game, tests and ODIs. Although I am traditionalist in many ways, I think this one of the greatest things that has happened to international cricket.

This may seem a little outrageous, but since the ICC and cricketing boards worldwide are playing T20s mostly for exhibition, even the T20 World Cup is mostly just for bragging rights, then why not let another section handle the T20 form of the game as well, like what happened with World Series. They joined with test cricket to form ODIs, and although T20s have already been used as a new form of cricket, they aren't a serious game, just fun, the 'rock and roll' form of the game. Why not merge the IPL with the ICC and let it run international competitions where countries enter as teams instead of this auction thing. let T20 become as much a part of cricket as tests and ODIs (although i would like to keep them as exhibitions myself, but the fan base won't agree with this). The ICC can work alongside the IPL to create that extra form of the game as a serious thing. I know players are already stretched, but the one player doesn't have to play all three forms. It also gives more players exposure, where the youngsters can play T20 as their first steps into international cricket, while the more experienced and possibly older players can go and win test series for their country.

I can pick about 20 things just at a glance that are wrong with the idea, but theres no harm in thinking out loud. I myself don't like this idea, but people these days are liking T20s more and more, and i think that sooner or later one form of the game will be scrapped if something serious is done with T20s, either scrap them, keep them as exhibition warm ups only or make them a serious part of cricket so that it doesnt destroy the rest of the game. classify them as three different sports with similar rules and don't let them cross to become the one game. As I said, the one player shouldn't fell influenced to play all three then.

Just thinking out loud, please feel free to build on the idea or get rid of it completely.

 

[hattrick]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

Boris, and interesting post .. however there are a few things that needs to be corrected.

Firstly, the IPL players need a clearance certificate from their national board to be able to play in the tournament. The agreement between the parties is that if the nation has a series by definition from the Future Tours Programme, then those players should be with their national squad. I.e KP and the English Players have left the IPL and returned to England to feature in their test series with the West Indies..

Secondly, the English players have had to pay their counties a percentage of their contracts to be able to be here and not be playing for their counties in the County Championship.

The main purpose of the World Series from various books which I have read was that Kerry Packer wanted to change the broadcaster of cricket down under. Also players played for a nation where as the IPL is founded on the American professional sports model. ie. Private ownership, various franchises and owners who had to pay to be able to own a franchise. Also the World Series, the players were as such seen as rebels and pain individually.

Also the IPL is the brainchild of the BCCI from India which is a member of the ICC. So they should automatically work together. In terms of arrangements it is seen as an ICC event i.t.o of umpires, security and the like.

Also I think their is a place for all 3 forms of the game. However I think that the t20 format is the game to take cricket to new markets, ie. the US, China etc..

I think one thing that needs to be kept in mind is that from a commercial point of view is that India is by far the place with the money and all of the ICC sponsors are Indian..

I must say I enjoyed your thinking out aloud post I do it from time to time..

 

[Boris]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

thanks for the corrections there.

why are international country based teams unable to enter a team? india is buying all these international players to earn them more money. it seems to me a one way thing, india gets all the money and the other countries lose their best players from domestic and international teams, either directly or through injuries, exhaustion etc. when i look at the teams i think: "i have no idea who or where the hell deccan, colcutta or any of them are, and i dont know most of the people in the team." therefore i dont care who or what is happening over there. the only teams i care about in any way are the teams with symonds, gilly or hayden. if i have no team to root for, but all the best players are screwing around playing for them, then we lose players for the teams that i do care about. if the IPL only bought players from their country, and retired players like hayden, gilly, warne, mcgrath, langer etc then i would be fine with it, but for the moment i feel betrayed by an organisation that could have made this into a great championship.

i know that the ICC has sanctioned the IPL and everything but i still dont think they are working together.

kerry packer wanted to be able to show cricket on tv to a larger viewing audience at a more acceptable and manageable time, and the way that he wanted to do that is by offering players more money, but not unreasonable amounts like the IPL, and better playing conditions. so players came by the dozens in protest to the ACBs handling of test cricket, and as such the test team lost many valuable players. i think australian cricketers are now going to start to retire earlier and some not even bother to play for their country so they can earn more money in a 'rebel' franchise like what happened with the world series.

the similarities may be vague, but they are there. how do you think australian cricket should combat this? dirk nannes has run away from domestic and possible chances at international cricket to play almost full time with the IPL. who knows, he may have been australia's next legendary fast bowler (long shot i know, but possible).

i do like the idea of using T20 to advertise the game. there was an idea i read on the cricket australia website a little while ago about a possible mini-series between australia, america and england or south africa to be played in new york and phildelphia and a couple of other places in baseball stadiums. i dont think it is going ahead, but i think its a great idea, esspecially if the players are told to just go crazy and try to hit every ball into the crowd or bowl a bouncer every second ball. plus maybe give the american team some slack and give them a chance at winning.

 

[hattrick]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

Boris I think that the have similarities in that potentially they are forcing change in the cricket environment. Yes, the IPL will only benefit the BCCI and the Indian players.

I follow the entire tournament because one I love the game no matter the format, it is in my country and it is exciting. Keep in mind that the ICC has sold it is marketing and TV rights to the BCCI for a report Billion dollars.

I do not think any nation can combat this? It will boil down to the players', if they are in it for the cash or for the badge. Hussey, Ponting, Clarke and Johnson have stated that the 2009 version is not for them.. not one South African did that..

It is a conundrum.. I understand your feeling of betrayal.. because in failure the players will play the tired card..

 

[Boris]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

i wasnt a very big fan of clarke before the IPL, but since he said that he wasnt going to play when everyone else was my respect for him grew greatly. now there are others not doing it, and i much respect them more now, especially ponting, he should be leading the way. i like the way the retirees are playing though. i like watching hayden and gilly rip up bowling attacks, and although your a south african i would think you follow the aussies to some extent, cause i gotta say the aussies are dominating over there. that is the only thing that has kept my interest.

i think if the IPL begins expanding at the rate it has it may start drawing people from there countries. if symonds gets dropped after the ashes he may just give up trying for his country and start playing a few short games a year for some millions of dollars as one example. there are already a few players at domestic level basically quitting their club to join the IPL for good, and although they are doing well and getting a lot of money, it isnt fair on their home clubs. i would much rather the ICC fully sanction the IPL and begin timetable it properly to avoid overlaps. maybe once every couple of years timetable it between both the northern and southern hemispheres seasons, there is a small gap between them. that way it gives player the chance to earn some money and have fun with the shorter form of the game and maybe expand on teams a little more. it also allows more younger up comers onto the international stage of the game, or others who havent really been given the chance for the countries.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

The one thing I would like to see is an international version of the IPL and it can piss off back to India

The annoying thing is, there is constant reminder it is an Indian domestic tournament and many good players sit around watching as teams fill up with hack Indian players

You could keep it at 8 teams, either private ownership or even run under the control of a nations cricket board, but have 1 team based in each of the 8 main test playing nations, but like the IPL they have players from all around the world. A few options like making the teams majority of that nation with the 4 international players rule or being fully open perhaps with a couple of marquee locals to keep local interest, although the majority of the squad may likely end up filled with local domestic players for depth

The other feature would be each year the tournament is staged in a different country

The fact remains is its hard to see players throwing away their international careers for the IPL when only 32 players from 8 test nations can play at a time, thats not many, it may attract some older players like Symonds who are past it and give the game up earlier than they might have in the past which is good news for the fans who dont have to watch them picked when not good enough

But the whole problem in world cricket is the BCCI run it and the fact an Indian domestic tournament can become the centrepiece of world cricket is bloody pathetic, time for the ICC to grow some balls, stage their own version of it and leave a gap in the calender if they must

 

[Boris]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

like that idea. i think if that way the money would be spread around all of the countries and go into the sport itself, another income source so hopefully they wont need as much advertising and such. that way not all the money would go into india so they can wrongfully spend it (a stereotype i think holds true). but wouldnt a team run by australia, for example, have mostly australian players? and as such for all the other teams. what australian would go play for zimbabwe? especially since the cricketing board wouldnt have enough money to attract the larger players.

also while we are starting our own franchises and changing world cricket here, i would like to have a 'veterans' or 'all time greats' franchise where only retirees could play. i would love to see some of the oldies going at it again, and im sure a lot of other people would too. just a one off tour, maybe for charity. maybe some of the great south african players who dont really 'exist' according to records because of the country's time in exile. they were some of the greatest ever but only had short careers and now they dont exist according to the ICC and the south african board.

there is really a lot of reading in this thread...

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

Then a salary cap may be required, although I wouldnt have a Zimbabwe franchise and probably require some financial guarantee of the sides to ensure they can spend enough money to make it worthwhile, maybe private ownership would be the best way

If you had a salary cap then realistically no side could afford to have all Australias top players, although a side with Australias top players would be crap at T20

As for a Vets comp, that would be awesome, you see it in some minor forms but a true T20 comp would be good now

 

[Boris]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

australia has the players for a really good T20 team, just look at whats happening in the IPL now, its just that test and ODI players are being chosen. players that play those forms of the game arent necessarily right for a hit and miss style one. anyway, enough of that...i have a habit of getting off topic

bangladesh would have been a better country, rather than zimbabwe. bangladesh is in the top 8. and just a random fact, that is really good considering the near 200 countries playing worldwide (i didnt know it was only just the second largest sport in the world )

does the IPL have a salary cap? and what happens when they miss games to play for their country? do they lose money or do they get payed their full salary no matter what? i guess it depends on the contracts they have.

i noticed a problem with a vets tour, what about age? hayden and gilchrist have technically retired and could be called veterans of the game, but look what they are doing in the IPL momentarily. say hayden were to face lillee or thompson he would absolutely smash six after six (they are in their 60s now). then the oldies would be dropped, kind of what has happened in the beach cricket (not a fair comparison, i know, but im pretty sure it will happen). a lot of vets arent really suited to this form of the game as well, just think of mark taylor, he wasnt suited to ODIs, let alone T20s. i would love to see it though, i would pay great amounts of money to.

 

[Kram81]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

But the whole problem in world cricket is the BCCI run it and the fact an Indian domestic tournament can become the centrepiece of world cricket is bloody pathetic, time for the ICC to grow some balls, stage their own version of it and leave a gap in the calender if they must

Top post eddie, totally agree.

 

[Boris]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

so should the ICC take over the IPL and control it heavily, or start its own tournament and hope to lure players from there?
the ICC would have to not sanction the IPL, but then it would be a rebel tournament and may draw players away from their international team.
i dont like what has happened. i would rather the IPL and these tournaments just go away.

 

[hattrick]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

Boris.. you raise some interesting points but keep the following in mind. The ICC have sold their media right to the BCCI for a Billion US Dollars.Look at all of the sponsors for ICC Events they are mostly Indian as that is where the money is.

Secondly, players are as far as I am informed paid per week played in a tournament at a rate as set out in the initial value of the draft price. The ENGLISH players had to pay their counties to be allowed to play in the last version.

I think the sanctioning of the tournament is a preventative measure as players have to get a clearance from their country to be allowed to be sold and play for a period of time.

The reality is that the ICC are at the BCCI's mercy and watch that the IPL and the Champions League(which have been enlarged) will get ICC Future Tour Windows.. it is a matter of time.

I think respect should go to the Indians with the initiative they took but this potentially could hurt cricket more than the money..

 

[Boris]

Re: IPL and World Series Cricket

money creates a vicous cycle in sport. money comes from media (primarily television), sponsorship and spectator viewing and interest. all of this ends up in the metaphorical cricket bank account. this goes to the development of cricket, but at the same time increases the seriousness of the game as follows:

there are two sorts of players in all sports, there are ones who follow the sportmanship model, and ones who follow the gamesmanship model. sportsmanship demands a commitment to principle of integrity, fair play, respectfulness and grace. it seems that the more important it is to win, the harder it is to behace in an ethical matter. according to this model, a true sportsperson must be willing to lose rather then forfeit the ethical principles, even when the stakes are high. the model also suggests that winning without honour is not a true victory.
the gamesmanship model on the other hand, all that really matters is winning. gamesmanship ecourages and sanctions the clever and effective ways of bending, evading and breaking the rules to provide a competitive advantage over an opponent. these tactics are considered to be part of the game by them. players who operate by this model often believe they have no ethical obligation to play by the rules because they maintain it is the officials role to identify violations and impose sanctions. one of the major problems with gamesmanship in sport is that there are no criteria for drawing a line between what is acceptable and what is not.

that was straight from a paper i wrote and i got full marks for it, so it should be right. i will save the rest of the details but if a player were put under the pressure to perform because there is a lot of money riding on their outcome they are more likely to adopt gamesmanlike behaviour in order to achieve that performance level to receive the money. this is seen very appropriately in the indian cricket team (i dont want to start any arguments but i think i have enough evidence to prove my point). cricket is a sportsmanlike game with the first and foremost rule being spirit of the game, whereas modern soccer for example is now considered gamesmanlike because players at international level go out of their way to give themselves every little advantage. in cricket things like not claiming a catch, not being a fast bowler and bowling at someones head over and over (and if you do and you hit them you are very quickly over to them and the first one to get them help) etc etc. the indian team of late (only the newest players who are receiving millions every year, not players of age such as tendulkar in general) are playing in a gamesmanlike manner. they claim catches that they dropped, appeal far too often, say and do things they shouldnt on and off the field. dont get me wrong, the indian team is great performance wise, but the very very large amount of money that has gone into the sport in that country, no matter the form or tournament, is turning players in that direction. money is good for the sport as it develops it and essentially makes it 'better', but too much will send the sport in the direction of many others, into a gamesmanlike game. i would stop watching the game if it werent for players such as ponting, lee, hayden, gilly and hussey, they are portrayls of sportsmanlike players forcing their way through an increasingly gamesmanlike world (they are only examples in the aussie team, pretty much all players are much like them. there are a few who arent though, for example james anderson in the english side.) if the game turned gamesmanlike like soccer has it would be terrible, and the only way it would occur is through such things as capping salaries and such. bring back some traditional points, such as the white picket fence instead of the advertising. keep the money in the game, but ensure it doesnt get flooded.

the icc should be in charge of this, putting caps on tournaments likely to overspend and bringing back those traditional points.