Why not just use a slider? (Basically an undercut legspinner). For all purposes it looks like a legbreak, doesn't dip, drifts in and at best straightens off the pitch. Really useful against front foot bullies and batsmen that look to the offside on the back foot.
Mental Side Of Spin Bowling
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legspinbowler
Member
Yea might try that actually. I was at the nets today practicing my top spinner and remembered you said you like to bowl a fast top spinner in some situations. How do you manage to bowl the top spinner quicker than your leg break? I find my top spinners have a bit more loop and remember in Clarrie Grimmett's book, he boasts about his top spinner being "half as quick in the air and twice as quick off the pitch"
For a quicker topspinner it basically has less revs which means my fingers are getting more 'behind' the ball rather than only imparting overspin if you get what I mean, it has a completely different feel to a ripped topspinner and I'd suggest that you treat it as a different delivery. I used to try bowling a ripped topspinner quicker and flatter through the air but this never seemed to work for me.
legspinbowler
Member
Makes sense leftie
An interesting situation I came across today, I was bowling to a batsman and the pitch was wet so there was no turn or bounce and had to bowl scrambled seam. I was being hit on both side of the wickets too easily so I decided to start bowling wide with more variations to keep it tight. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts of bowling on unhelpful pitches
An interesting situation I came across today, I was bowling to a batsman and the pitch was wet so there was no turn or bounce and had to bowl scrambled seam. I was being hit on both side of the wickets too easily so I decided to start bowling wide with more variations to keep it tight. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts of bowling on unhelpful pitches
SLA is right (got a laugh out of me as well); there's more to it than looking at the pitch and deciding more or less variations, remember the last 1/3 of Warne's career where he essentially only used the leg break and the slider?
Basic rule of thumb I use being a right arm leg-spinner:
- Slow pitch (green and wet or a dustbowl), bowl flatter and undercut the ball. Undercut deliveries 'dig in' and will deviate on soft pitches (this is why part time spinners destroy some teams on soft pitches).
- Fast pitch, change your pace according to the person that you're bowling too and don't veer off your line (for me at the stumps for a RHB, 2 stumps out for a LHB) unless you're getting the batsman to reach for the ball. The thing here is that batsman tend to go harder on fast pitches so you want to give them nothing and make them pay for any mistake.
Don't get too cute with your field placement when you find there's no turn, the key here is execution of your deliveries based on the situation so you don't want to clutter your mind. I can't even count the number of times I've choked a batsman to death when I was getting nothing lethal out of the pitch.
legspinbowler
Member
What would you do if you we're bowlin in good areas and the batsman was playing you and scoring too easily? Back up plan?
PS. Forgot to mention it was a synthetic wicket
PS. Forgot to mention it was a synthetic wicket
Wet pitches don't turn much, but of course turn is only one weapon out of six. You still have bounce, skid, dip, drift and deception. Bounce and skid are also dependent upon the pitch in various ways, but the other three are unaffected.
Depending on how wet and how soft it was in the first place, damp pitches might stop leading to aerial shots, they might skid through fast and low giving you a good chance of an lbw, or they might be slow and low and hard to score on. Each one gives you a tactical angle to work with.
Also if the pitch is particularly soft, topspinners and backspinners are reversed, with topspinners shooting through low and backspinners leaping up.
Synthetic pitches are banned in our league, but they do tend to be quite skiddy, some skiddy and low and some fast and bouncy even when wet. There should still be some angle there you can take advantage of.
Depending on how wet and how soft it was in the first place, damp pitches might stop leading to aerial shots, they might skid through fast and low giving you a good chance of an lbw, or they might be slow and low and hard to score on. Each one gives you a tactical angle to work with.
Also if the pitch is particularly soft, topspinners and backspinners are reversed, with topspinners shooting through low and backspinners leaping up.
Synthetic pitches are banned in our league, but they do tend to be quite skiddy, some skiddy and low and some fast and bouncy even when wet. There should still be some angle there you can take advantage of.
Depends on the situation, sometimes damage control is all you're left with. If you're getting pumped and your job is just to get through your overs (limited overs game) then it's all about changing your pace and hitting the right areas so a field can be set, sometimes even getting the batsman to hit singles rather than boundaries is a victory. If you're being played easily and it's a 2 innings game then slowly choke the batsman by cutting off his easy boundary options and make him play shots he doesn't like.
If you want something to keep in your head for planning your over in situations like that then always remember the first and last balls are the teams and everything inbetween is yours.
SLA's listed the weapons you have when there's no turn, if you want to see a master of no spin at work then watch some Dan Vettori footage.
It's been a long time since I've played on synthetic wickets outside of the odd preseason game so I'm not the best person to advise on them.
legspinbowler
Member
Some really good points to work with. Thanks for that
legspinbowler
Member
Would you change how you bowl to orthodox batsman than how you would bowl to unorthodox batsman?
Some generalisations may be:
orthodox -straight bat, with the spin, looks for singles, uses feet well
unorthodox - horizontal bat, swinging across the line, playing against the spin, backfoot
Some generalisations may be:
orthodox -straight bat, with the spin, looks for singles, uses feet well
unorthodox - horizontal bat, swinging across the line, playing against the spin, backfoot
Darth Spin
Active Member
Always bowl full at unorthodox who stays in his crease. Sooner or later you're likely to bowl him or get lbw.
You should be able to pick up on what a batsman is going to and what their weaknesses are from their stance but for me (sorry for the long reply but no cricket due to winter leaves me bored):
Orthodox (RHB) - Stick to offstump, vary overspin and use a shortish cover to cut off the single and encourage the player to look for the boundary
Orthodox (good feet) - Set a defensive field and be prepared to attack in terms of your bowling mindset, I enjoy bowling to batsman like this
Orthodox (plays with the spin) - Easy to set a field to cut off any runs, eventually they frustrate themselves out if not get them with a googly)
Unorthodox (RHB, swinging across the line) - Look to bowl sets starting on leg and going to outside off, set a deep midwicket/cow. Plan is to get them to hot the ball outside off straight up or bowl them with a full one on middle).
Unorthodox (RHB, horizontal bat) - Would look to get them bowled with a googly or in ducking delivery, my guess is that their natural instinct will be to cut.
Unorthodox (RHB, backfoot) - Get them playing straight and get them caught at slip or mid-off otherwise ping them with a straight one for an LBW.
legspinbowler
Member
Not at all leftie, your in depth replies are great! Keep them coming
I'll try to think of some other types of batsman and would love to hear your insight on how you'd bowl to them:
Defensive
Waiting for the bad ball
Attacking in an unpredictable manner
Front foot dominant
Bottom hand dominant
Top hand dominant
Leg side dominant
Off side dominant
Sweepers
Late timers (play behind square)
I'll try to think of some other types of batsman and would love to hear your insight on how you'd bowl to them:
Defensive
Waiting for the bad ball
Attacking in an unpredictable manner
Front foot dominant
Bottom hand dominant
Top hand dominant
Leg side dominant
Off side dominant
Sweepers
Late timers (play behind square)
Mate you'll find when its wet you have to bowl with MUCH more topspin to get the ball to grip. If your seam is anything less than about 11:30 (on the clock) then the ball will skid through. Bowling with this much topspin won't get you much spin, but any bit of movement you can get is beneficial. But as the other guys have said, spin is only one of your weapons. My best bowling figures have been in the wet (on a synthetic pitch). You can really manipulate how the bowl bounces by slightly adjusting the amount of side/topspin on the ball. By even slightly increasing the amount of sidespin on the ball (say 10:30) you can really make the ball skid through, and it makes it SOOO hard for the batter to pick because you really don't change your action at all! its all about using the conditions against the batter.
Really, you just have to apply a set of basic principles.
If they're playing against the spin, then keep spinning you stock ball hard
If they're playing with the spin, then use your wrong'un
If they're playing with a vertical bat then beat them with turn
If they're playing with a horizontal bat then beat them with flight
If they're playing you off the front foot, either pull back your length or beat them in the flight
If they're playing you off the back foot, either push up your length or beat them off the pitch
If they have one particular shot they favour, then either cut it off if they play it well, or set a trap for them if they don't.
Apply those basic principles and you should be able to figure out the answers for yourself.
legspinbowler
Member
Those principles are a good starting point, but I think batsman definitely need to be set up by bowling different balls before. For instance, if they're playing against the spin, you could set them up by bowling a few balls with less sidespin and then delivering a ball with more sidespin to get the leading edge.
That's an interesting question, because to some extent if you've already spotted a weakness and identified the delivery that will get them out, then why do you need to set them up? Setting a batsman up is the process of inducing a weakness that you can then exploit. If the potential weakness is already evident, then attempting to set them up for it is just reinventing the wheel. They'll probably get a single and get off strike and then you'll wish you'd simply applied the coup de gras while you had the chance. Keep things simple and try to make every ball as good as it can be against this particular batsman.
On the other hand, if what you've spotted is merely the hint of a tendency to play in a particular way, then setting them up can be seen as reinforcing that tendency in order to make the batsman more vulnerable to an as-yet-unrevealed variation. Two different ways of tackling the same conundrum.
legspinbowler
Member
Your point is valid. But some batsman might know their game very well and understand their weaknesses. You might be able to probe at their weakness but they might recognise your plan if you do it for long enough.
For instance, some batsman aren't able to cut or pull the ball well against pace bowling. If you bowl short regularly, they might get accustomed to it but if you do it occasionally, they might be surprised and their weakness exaggerated enough to get you a wicket.
For instance, some batsman aren't able to cut or pull the ball well against pace bowling. If you bowl short regularly, they might get accustomed to it but if you do it occasionally, they might be surprised and their weakness exaggerated enough to get you a wicket.
Billywhizz
Member
I got tonked all around the ground at last weeks game by one batsman. The guy was going at it baseball style (every ball) - he missed about half the balls but the ones he connected with were sixes (don't ask about my figures!). Any advice for this sort of player?