NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

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Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

duckman;341751 said:
Don't be surprised if both clubs leave. I have heard that they are sick and tired of the amount of crap they BOTH cop.
The NMCA admin will have alot to answer for if this happens.
I for one will be very upset if they go. Without them nmca will be the worst park cricket comp in victoria.

Instead of hanging shit on them and the NMCA admin trying to nail them in every possible way we should be rapt that we get to play against players like: Plumpton, Jesensek, McGann, Bubis, Pogious, Larsen, Sampimon etc etc.

I only wish everyone felt like you Duckman. I for one am in total agreeance.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

duckman;341751 said:
Don't be surprised if both clubs leave. I have heard that they are sick and tired of the amount of crap they BOTH cop.
The NMCA admin will have alot to answer for if this happens.
I for one will be very upset if they go. Without them nmca will be the worst park cricket comp in victoria.

Instead of hanging shit on them and the NMCA admin trying to nail them in every possible way we should be rapt that we get to play against players like: Plumpton, Jesensek, McGann, Bubis, Pogious, Larsen, Sampimon etc etc.

I only wish everyone felt like you Duckman. I for one am in total agreeance.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

northmetroboy;341901 said:
nothcote utd??? what???

why do all our better umpires leave after poor behaviour during the grand finals, (not always from the players)??
who leads the charge when it comes to any comment re poor admin of the comp??
who has pulled the strings for a few years and no longer has control to do what they like???? and therefore non stop complains??

answer : guess which 2 clubs

honestly i hope they stay, just wish they would support the admin and not constantly bag it, they never seem happy unless they run it

great cricket players they have, many flags they have but who honestly respects them who doesn't play there??????????????????????? anyone?

You remind me of that little kid in the playground who always hid on the sidelines and made a nuisance of himself by throwing stones on the field because he was never quite good enough to play with the 'big boys'.

Why are you so vindictive? I would really love to know if you actually know anything at all about any of the individuals that play for either Camrea or Rosebank. Or if you have any idea about the amount of work that goes into making a successful club.

Paying players plays such a small role in establishing a club as a strong competitive unit.

Problem is that you obviously have no desire or intention in helping your club (whichever that may be) achieve anything at all, let alone a premiership. Reason being, and I'm guessing, because it's just so much easier for you to 'rubbish', denegrade', put down', and 'insult' than it is to actually learn.

I really hope you aren't in a leadership role at your club for your club's sake. Because if you're what they're relying on, then I don't hold out much hope for your future.

Wake up to yourself and realise that money isn't the reason these clubs have made it to the top. You can continue down that track all you like. All it will do is leave you further and further behind.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

northmetroboy;341901 said:
nothcote utd??? what???

why do all our better umpires leave after poor behaviour during the grand finals, (not always from the players)??
who leads the charge when it comes to any comment re poor admin of the comp??
who has pulled the strings for a few years and no longer has control to do what they like???? and therefore non stop complains??

answer : guess which 2 clubs

honestly i hope they stay, just wish they would support the admin and not constantly bag it, they never seem happy unless they run it

great cricket players they have, many flags they have but who honestly respects them who doesn't play there??????????????????????? anyone?

You remind me of that little kid in the playground who always hid on the sidelines and made a nuisance of himself by throwing stones on the field because he was never quite good enough to play with the 'big boys'.

Why are you so vindictive? I would really love to know if you actually know anything at all about any of the individuals that play for either Camrea or Rosebank. Or if you have any idea about the amount of work that goes into making a successful club.

Paying players plays such a small role in establishing a club as a strong competitive unit.

Problem is that you obviously have no desire or intention in helping your club (whichever that may be) achieve anything at all, let alone a premiership. Reason being, and I'm guessing, because it's just so much easier for you to 'rubbish', denegrade', put down', and 'insult' than it is to actually learn.

I really hope you aren't in a leadership role at your club for your club's sake. Because if you're what they're relying on, then I don't hold out much hope for your future.

Wake up to yourself and realise that money isn't the reason these clubs have made it to the top. You can continue down that track all you like. All it will do is leave you further and further behind.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

No. 1 or 2 or 3!!;342304 said:
Not so sure on Mc Gann winning the medal.

A few factors go against him and my view is this:

He actually only took 47 wickets in the home and away season and i know for a fact that 3 of those were second innings wickets. How many others were second innings?

That's an average of under 4 wickets per game (taking in to account that they only played 13 games - or was it 12?)

He didn't really do much with the bat.

I umpired him a few games this season (app. 5 games) and he was only in the votes once!!

My experience with other umpires (and i haven't umpired with all of them so i'm not tarnishing anyone) is that bowlers usually have to take 5 or more wickets to get the maximum votes. How many 5 wicket hauls did he get?

I am also of the understanding that Christie missed quite a few games in Quick and the game that i umpired down there, he was no where near getting votes.

So for mine, Berak, Jesansek and Mc Gann will take votes from one another as will a few at Rosebank however Sampimon had a very consistant year which may get him over the line.

Just adding my two bob of inpartial reasoning.

Oh. Almost forgot the other important award!!!

TOOL OF THE YEAR:

Northmetroboy

For his contributions to this forum and making a complete D*&k of himself and his Club down there in Alphington near the papermills![/QUOTE]

and your are fool of the year, an umpire giving his thoughts on votes in a forum, good luck in the VCA you are gonna need it..papermills???? what the?? maybe you are tool of the year, you have no idea

interesting point to be made here is this

A few of you say I do not know the facts so I shouldnt be saying this or that....yet you come on here and bag northcote united and suggest i'm someone.....do you really know the facts????????
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

No. 1 or 2 or 3!!;342304 said:
Not so sure on Mc Gann winning the medal.

A few factors go against him and my view is this:

He actually only took 47 wickets in the home and away season and i know for a fact that 3 of those were second innings wickets. How many others were second innings?

That's an average of under 4 wickets per game (taking in to account that they only played 13 games - or was it 12?)

He didn't really do much with the bat.

I umpired him a few games this season (app. 5 games) and he was only in the votes once!!

My experience with other umpires (and i haven't umpired with all of them so i'm not tarnishing anyone) is that bowlers usually have to take 5 or more wickets to get the maximum votes. How many 5 wicket hauls did he get?

I am also of the understanding that Christie missed quite a few games in Quick and the game that i umpired down there, he was no where near getting votes.

So for mine, Berak, Jesansek and Mc Gann will take votes from one another as will a few at Rosebank however Sampimon had a very consistant year which may get him over the line.

Just adding my two bob of inpartial reasoning.

Oh. Almost forgot the other important award!!!

TOOL OF THE YEAR:

Northmetroboy

For his contributions to this forum and making a complete D*&k of himself and his Club down there in Alphington near the papermills![/QUOTE]

and your are fool of the year, an umpire giving his thoughts on votes in a forum, good luck in the VCA you are gonna need it..papermills???? what the?? maybe you are tool of the year, you have no idea

interesting point to be made here is this

A few of you say I do not know the facts so I shouldnt be saying this or that....yet you come on here and bag northcote united and suggest i'm someone.....do you really know the facts????????
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

The Ref;342314 said:
You remind me of that little kid in the playground who always hid on the sidelines and made a nuisance of himself by throwing stones on the field because he was never quite good enough to play with the 'big boys'.

Why are you so vindictive? I would really love to know if you actually know anything at all about any of the individuals that play for either Camrea or Rosebank. Or if you have any idea about the amount of work that goes into making a successful club.

Paying players plays such a small role in establishing a club as a strong competitive unit.

Problem is that you obviously have no desire or intention in helping your club (whichever that may be) achieve anything at all, let alone a premiership. Reason being, and I'm guessing, because it's just so much easier for you to 'rubbish', denegrade', put down', and 'insult' than it is to actually learn.

I really hope you aren't in a leadership role at your club for your club's sake. Because if you're what they're relying on, then I don't hold out much hope for your future.

Wake up to yourself and realise that money isn't the reason these clubs have made it to the top. You can continue down that track all you like. All it will do is leave you further and further behind.



this is a forum, opinions from all sources, who says they have to be right or wrong.....its not so much about bagging, its about the response...thanks for the input...vindictive, not really, but thats your opinion
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

The Ref;342314 said:
You remind me of that little kid in the playground who always hid on the sidelines and made a nuisance of himself by throwing stones on the field because he was never quite good enough to play with the 'big boys'.

Why are you so vindictive? I would really love to know if you actually know anything at all about any of the individuals that play for either Camrea or Rosebank. Or if you have any idea about the amount of work that goes into making a successful club.

Paying players plays such a small role in establishing a club as a strong competitive unit.

Problem is that you obviously have no desire or intention in helping your club (whichever that may be) achieve anything at all, let alone a premiership. Reason being, and I'm guessing, because it's just so much easier for you to 'rubbish', denegrade', put down', and 'insult' than it is to actually learn.

I really hope you aren't in a leadership role at your club for your club's sake. Because if you're what they're relying on, then I don't hold out much hope for your future.

Wake up to yourself and realise that money isn't the reason these clubs have made it to the top. You can continue down that track all you like. All it will do is leave you further and further behind.



this is a forum, opinions from all sources, who says they have to be right or wrong.....its not so much about bagging, its about the response...thanks for the input...vindictive, not really, but thats your opinion
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

I think the weather forecast for 2moro from the Viewbank weather station is 36C. I am still killing myself with laughter when I think of that day when the big cheese decided to call the cricket off.The stupid part about it he is still trying to justify it to himsel:cool:f!!Great move!!:confused: Now I will try to be serious and state that there is going to be some breaking news relating to NMCA regarding 1:Admin personnel, 2:clubs.Watch this space.
Lock in J.McGann for the medal.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

I think the weather forecast for 2moro from the Viewbank weather station is 36C. I am still killing myself with laughter when I think of that day when the big cheese decided to call the cricket off.The stupid part about it he is still trying to justify it to himsel:cool:f!!Great move!!:confused: Now I will try to be serious and state that there is going to be some breaking news relating to NMCA regarding 1:Admin personnel, 2:clubs.Watch this space.
Lock in J.McGann for the medal.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

bowler.11;342481 said:
I think the weather forecast for 2moro from the Viewbank weather station is 36C. I am still killing myself with laughter when I think of that day when the big cheese decided to call the cricket off.The stupid part about it he is still trying to justify it to himsel:cool:f!!Great move!!:confused: Now I will try to be serious and state that there is going to be some breaking news relating to NMCA regarding 1:Admin personnel, 2:clubs.Watch this space.
Lock in J.McGann for the medal.

Grow some nuts and state what you reckon you know mate.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

bowler.11;342481 said:
I think the weather forecast for 2moro from the Viewbank weather station is 36C. I am still killing myself with laughter when I think of that day when the big cheese decided to call the cricket off.The stupid part about it he is still trying to justify it to himsel:cool:f!!Great move!!:confused: Now I will try to be serious and state that there is going to be some breaking news relating to NMCA regarding 1:Admin personnel, 2:clubs.Watch this space.
Lock in J.McGann for the medal.

Grow some nuts and state what you reckon you know mate.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

duckman;342444 said:
So which club was that again northmetroboy???

not sure why its relevant? i dont know where you are from or care.

my comments were about the 2 clubs who pay the most money end up buying the shield/playing off in the GF.

no one has proven otherwise

yet my comments are wrong according to those who say i'm from northcote united, i'm sorry to disappoint you.

it seems to work the same in real life, anyone make a comment re the power clubs, and they all go on the attack....yet never provide anything constructive...paranoia paranoia

ps, you get what you pay for....you wanna be tall poppies!!!!!!
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

duckman;342444 said:
So which club was that again northmetroboy???

not sure why its relevant? i dont know where you are from or care.

my comments were about the 2 clubs who pay the most money end up buying the shield/playing off in the GF.

no one has proven otherwise

yet my comments are wrong according to those who say i'm from northcote united, i'm sorry to disappoint you.

it seems to work the same in real life, anyone make a comment re the power clubs, and they all go on the attack....yet never provide anything constructive...paranoia paranoia

ps, you get what you pay for....you wanna be tall poppies!!!!!!
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

Northmetroboy,

You should divert your energy in trying to get juniors at your cricket club rather than loitering in here.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

Northmetroboy,

You should divert your energy in trying to get juniors at your cricket club rather than loitering in here.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

northmetroboy;342544 said:
not sure why its relevant? i dont know where you are from or care.

my comments were about the 2 clubs who pay the most money end up buying the shield/playing off in the GF.

no one has proven otherwise

yet my comments are wrong according to those who say i'm from northcote united, i'm sorry to disappoint you.

it seems to work the same in real life, anyone make a comment re the power clubs, and they all go on the attack....yet never provide anything constructive...paranoia paranoia

ps, you get what you pay for....you wanna be tall poppies!!!!!!

HOLY SHIT N M BOY!!!!

You're right, the most successful clubs in the NMCA happen to be the wealthier clubs.

But look at it this way:

If a club is successful, they attract players (Both Camrea and Rosebank have 4 or more sides).

More players means more dollars through the club.

More dollars through the Club enable clubs to not only recruit a batsman or bowler, but also helps them retain what they already have.

Those new and old players combine to win a premiership!!

Obviously your club is on the long road to nowhere!!

If you concentrated your energy on making your club a GOOD club, you may get more players through your door, which generates more icome, which then will allow you to recruit that batsman or bowler who MAY get you up in to the higher end of the comp and possibly (and ultimately) assist in winning you a premiership.

If this paid off, would you then be in the same boat of having bought your premiership/shield??

You should feel priveleged to have a couple of powers in your league and try to emulate them rather than expend your energy making excuses for the lack of success at your own club!!

And finally, money does not win you a flag!! Teamwork does.

If it was money that won flags, i don't think that Geelong and Hawthorn would have won the last two AFL flags!!
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

northmetroboy;342544 said:
not sure why its relevant? i dont know where you are from or care.

my comments were about the 2 clubs who pay the most money end up buying the shield/playing off in the GF.

no one has proven otherwise

yet my comments are wrong according to those who say i'm from northcote united, i'm sorry to disappoint you.

it seems to work the same in real life, anyone make a comment re the power clubs, and they all go on the attack....yet never provide anything constructive...paranoia paranoia

ps, you get what you pay for....you wanna be tall poppies!!!!!!

HOLY SHIT N M BOY!!!!

You're right, the most successful clubs in the NMCA happen to be the wealthier clubs.

But look at it this way:

If a club is successful, they attract players (Both Camrea and Rosebank have 4 or more sides).

More players means more dollars through the club.

More dollars through the Club enable clubs to not only recruit a batsman or bowler, but also helps them retain what they already have.

Those new and old players combine to win a premiership!!

Obviously your club is on the long road to nowhere!!

If you concentrated your energy on making your club a GOOD club, you may get more players through your door, which generates more icome, which then will allow you to recruit that batsman or bowler who MAY get you up in to the higher end of the comp and possibly (and ultimately) assist in winning you a premiership.

If this paid off, would you then be in the same boat of having bought your premiership/shield??

You should feel priveleged to have a couple of powers in your league and try to emulate them rather than expend your energy making excuses for the lack of success at your own club!!

And finally, money does not win you a flag!! Teamwork does.

If it was money that won flags, i don't think that Geelong and Hawthorn would have won the last two AFL flags!!
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

bowler.11;342481 said:
I think the weather forecast for 2moro from the Viewbank weather station is 36C. I am still killing myself with laughter when I think of that day when the big cheese decided to call the cricket off.The stupid part about it he is still trying to justify it to himsel:cool:f!!Great move!!:confused: Now I will try to be serious and state that there is going to be some breaking news relating to NMCA regarding 1:Admin personnel, 2:clubs.Watch this space.
Lock in J.McGann for the medal.

Hey Bowler.

What do you know???
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

bowler.11;342481 said:
I think the weather forecast for 2moro from the Viewbank weather station is 36C. I am still killing myself with laughter when I think of that day when the big cheese decided to call the cricket off.The stupid part about it he is still trying to justify it to himsel:cool:f!!Great move!!:confused: Now I will try to be serious and state that there is going to be some breaking news relating to NMCA regarding 1:Admin personnel, 2:clubs.Watch this space.
Lock in J.McGann for the medal.

Hey Bowler.

What do you know???
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

Hey Gabe or Blissy.

If you're still getting on here, can you let us know when applications for the Executive come up and where job descriptions can be obtained.

If there's going to be Admin changes as suggested by Bowler 11, i'd be interested in looking at a role.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

Hey Gabe or Blissy.

If you're still getting on here, can you let us know when applications for the Executive come up and where job descriptions can be obtained.

If there's going to be Admin changes as suggested by Bowler 11, i'd be interested in looking at a role.
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

No. 1 or 2 or 3!!;342554 said:
HOLY SHIT N M BOY!!!!

You're right, the most successful clubs in the NMCA happen to be the wealthier clubs.

But look at it this way:

If a club is successful, they attract players (Both Camrea and Rosebank have 4 or more sides).

More players means more dollars through the club.

More dollars through the Club enable clubs to not only recruit a batsman or bowler, but also helps them retain what they already have.

Those new and old players combine to win a premiership!!

Obviously your club is on the long road to nowhere!!

If you concentrated your energy on making your club a GOOD club, you may get more players through your door, which generates more icome, which then will allow you to recruit that batsman or bowler who MAY get you up in to the higher end of the comp and possibly (and ultimately) assist in winning you a premiership.

If this paid off, would you then be in the same boat of having bought your premiership/shield??

You should feel priveleged to have a couple of powers in your league and try to emulate them rather than expend your energy making excuses for the lack of success at your own club!!

And finally, money does not win you a flag!! Teamwork does.

If it was money that won flags, i don't think that Geelong and Hawthorn would have won the last two AFL flags!!

i agree with most things you said there....how do you know where i concentrate my energy?? are you reading too much into to these 1 minute posts?????

teamwork does win flags i agree....but the truth still remains that the jika shield is for sale....if any club wants to win one, they have to pay for it..

is this a good thing for local cricket?? i think not and you probably think so...

where do all the paid players come from?? other peoples clubs....yes

**its obvious you are from rosebank
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

No. 1 or 2 or 3!!;342554 said:
HOLY SHIT N M BOY!!!!

You're right, the most successful clubs in the NMCA happen to be the wealthier clubs.

But look at it this way:

If a club is successful, they attract players (Both Camrea and Rosebank have 4 or more sides).

More players means more dollars through the club.

More dollars through the Club enable clubs to not only recruit a batsman or bowler, but also helps them retain what they already have.

Those new and old players combine to win a premiership!!

Obviously your club is on the long road to nowhere!!

If you concentrated your energy on making your club a GOOD club, you may get more players through your door, which generates more icome, which then will allow you to recruit that batsman or bowler who MAY get you up in to the higher end of the comp and possibly (and ultimately) assist in winning you a premiership.

If this paid off, would you then be in the same boat of having bought your premiership/shield??

You should feel priveleged to have a couple of powers in your league and try to emulate them rather than expend your energy making excuses for the lack of success at your own club!!

And finally, money does not win you a flag!! Teamwork does.

If it was money that won flags, i don't think that Geelong and Hawthorn would have won the last two AFL flags!!

i agree with most things you said there....how do you know where i concentrate my energy?? are you reading too much into to these 1 minute posts?????

teamwork does win flags i agree....but the truth still remains that the jika shield is for sale....if any club wants to win one, they have to pay for it..

is this a good thing for local cricket?? i think not and you probably think so...

where do all the paid players come from?? other peoples clubs....yes

**its obvious you are from rosebank
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

No. 1 or 2 or 3!!;342554 said:
You should feel priveleged to have a couple of powers in your league and try to emulate them rather than expend your energy making excuses for the lack of success at your own club!!

QUOTE]

you have got to be kidding....anyone not from camrea or rosebank feel priviliged?????????? silence is deafening in advance
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

No. 1 or 2 or 3!!;342554 said:
You should feel priveleged to have a couple of powers in your league and try to emulate them rather than expend your energy making excuses for the lack of success at your own club!!

QUOTE]

you have got to be kidding....anyone not from camrea or rosebank feel priviliged?????????? silence is deafening in advance
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

northmetroboy;342559 said:
i agree with most things you said there....how do you know where i concentrate my energy?? are you reading too much into to these 1 minute posts?????

teamwork does win flags i agree....but the truth still remains that the jika shield is for sale....if any club wants to win one, they have to pay for it..
is this a good thing for local cricket?? i think not and you probably think so...

where do all the paid players come from?? other peoples clubs....yes

**its obvious you are from rosebank

Northcute utd paid approx 20K this year and we all know where they finished. Dont deny it becuase it was openly stated by senior personnel at that club. Oh, I forgot they are running a junior program with 3 imports & 3 48yo players. what a joke!!!
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

northmetroboy;342559 said:
i agree with most things you said there....how do you know where i concentrate my energy?? are you reading too much into to these 1 minute posts?????

teamwork does win flags i agree....but the truth still remains that the jika shield is for sale....if any club wants to win one, they have to pay for it..
is this a good thing for local cricket?? i think not and you probably think so...

where do all the paid players come from?? other peoples clubs....yes

**its obvious you are from rosebank

Northcute utd paid approx 20K this year and we all know where they finished. Dont deny it becuase it was openly stated by senior personnel at that club. Oh, I forgot they are running a junior program with 3 imports & 3 48yo players. what a joke!!!
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

bowler.11;342564 said:
Northcute utd paid approx 20K this year and we all know where they finished. Dont deny it becuase it was openly stated by senior personnel at that club. Oh, I forgot they are running a junior program with 3 imports & 3 48yo players. what a joke!!!

i wouldnt know what they pay...i'd be surprised if they paid more than camrea and rosebank, but hey it's possible to be surprised...
if they spending 20k, they must not have any teamwork hey ump
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

bowler.11;342564 said:
Northcute utd paid approx 20K this year and we all know where they finished. Dont deny it becuase it was openly stated by senior personnel at that club. Oh, I forgot they are running a junior program with 3 imports & 3 48yo players. what a joke!!!

i wouldnt know what they pay...i'd be surprised if they paid more than camrea and rosebank, but hey it's possible to be surprised...
if they spending 20k, they must not have any teamwork hey ump
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

northmetroboy;342567 said:
i wouldnt know what they pay...i'd be surprised if they paid more than camrea and rosebank, but hey it's possible to be surprised...
if they spending 20k, they must not have any teamwork hey ump

So can you confirm whether you are the smart ass from nth united who always wants to punch on with our captain??
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

northmetroboy;342567 said:
i wouldnt know what they pay...i'd be surprised if they paid more than camrea and rosebank, but hey it's possible to be surprised...
if they spending 20k, they must not have any teamwork hey ump

So can you confirm whether you are the smart ass from nth united who always wants to punch on with our captain??
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

Cotchin Boys;342573 said:
So can you confirm whether you are the smart ass from nth united who always wants to punch on with our captain??

are you having trouble comprehending where i am not from?? again sorry to disappoint you

but i guess its ok to slander other clubs and people as long as its not the power clubs and people within it?????????????????

hypocrites
 
Re: NMCA(formerly Jika) '08/'09

Cotchin Boys;342573 said:
So can you confirm whether you are the smart ass from nth united who always wants to punch on with our captain??

are you having trouble comprehending where i am not from?? again sorry to disappoint you

but i guess its ok to slander other clubs and people as long as its not the power clubs and people within it?????????????????

hypocrites
 
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