Could not have said it any better myself. Thankyou.
The most meaningful post to this forum in recent times.
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Boys, boys, boys! This is starting to get out of hand!!
There is NO doubt Westland has an issue with Sunshine and misses no opportunity to "pot' them, any chance he gets . But I defy anyone to tell me that they are remotely interested in what happened in July 2013 with a fellow club that is struggling to survive on a day to day basis.
We all need to move on and get ready for THIS season and if Westland feels so strongly about the way his former club is being administered, here's a tip, get a reform ticket together and challenge the incumbents at the next Annual Meeting. Then you can show all of us, rather than TELL all of us how the joint should be run.
Good luck, because i'm tippin' it won't be an easy gig.
The issues you touch upon are mutually exclusive; 1) being what Sunshine CC have been accused of - incidentally, an event over 27 months ago now, and 2) future change to the VSDCA Dividen allocation.
If you want to have an informed, educated and rational discussion on anything - I'm happy to do so. I will be happy to share information appropriate for a public domain and will not stoop to assasinating the character of individuals or clubs. Where people want to take pot shots at the VSDCA, individual VSDCA Exec members like Phil O'Meara, elected Executive of VSDCA affiliate clubs, etc - a line needs be drawn.
Now, let's delineate the two issues as noted above to, hopefully, make things perfectly clear:
1) Sunshine CC
They have been accused of something (publicly) from an event over 2 years ago, following 3rd hand feedback representing one side of the story. You think that the Kangaroo Court of BigCricket is the appropriate forum for this and want to suggest that Sunshine can be provided the opportunity to prove their innocence after the public airing of these accusations?
Who knows what actually occurred but it's not my role or anyone else within this forum to hold them to account in a Kangaroo Court setting. There are processes and vehicles for that and I will go out on a limp and suggest that these are not BigCricket.
2) the phasing out of the VSDCA Dividend
Of the 28 VSDCA clubs, argubaly 4 to 6 will confront immediate short to medium term challenge and will need make structural and strategic change to ensure they adapt to the new world. 6 to 8 clubs will be unaffected and it will have NO noticeable impact on the operational running of those clubs. The remaining 14 to 18 clubs will notice the reduction in annual Income but will have scope, capacity and resources to adapt to ensure that any pain is short term only and will not impact long term viability and sustainability.
The above issues are mutually exclusive and any concerns you hold pertaining to the Dividend removal should have no correlation to what is right/wrong or otherwise as to what Sunshine have been accused of. Neither you nor I are judge, jury and executioner in this space. As for being contradictory, in being serious for 30 seconds, the one basic principle of consideration I apply is how would I (or officials at other clubs - think of your own) feel with dirty laundry being aired in a public domain (that may or may not have any merit to it).
They are not mutually exclusive at all. If you can't pay your way with the dividend then it is very likely you will find it even harder to pay your way without it. I doubt any club sets out to avoid their obligations. A club that declines to pay is either unhappy with the services provided or simply doesn't have the money.
Are Ben Wood et al available for speaking engagements at functions?
Curators not getting paid, forums being hijacked by club officials, Cricket Victoria shutting the door...
I reckon the Country Week teams will end up travelling down and have their wallets knicked out of their kitbags next!
Wake up to yourselves you clowns.
Don't worry about the reputation of Subbies and its clubs, the rest of suburban cricket regard you as a self-serving relic trapped in a competition that rewards mediocrity and draws talent from Premier/District with CV paying for the privilege till recently.
What a pack of self deluded ratbags, but by all means carry-on, it's mildly entertaining.
Woody, I think your point 2 is a little understated. I've seen some financial statements that are a blood bath with the dividend. The 4 to 6 you are talking about have a huge battle to survive in the next 2-3 years. You would have to question whether a club's future is viable if they are unable to 'right the ship' prior to the dividend being phased out.The issues you touch upon are mutually exclusive; 1) being what Sunshine CC have been accused of - incidentally, an event over 27 months ago now, and 2) future change to the VSDCA Dividen allocation.
If you want to have an informed, educated and rational discussion on anything - I'm happy to do so. I will be happy to share information appropriate for a public domain and will not stoop to assasinating the character of individuals or clubs. Where people want to take pot shots at the VSDCA, individual VSDCA Exec members like Phil O'Meara, elected Executive of VSDCA affiliate clubs, etc - a line needs be drawn.
Now, let's delineate the two issues as noted above to, hopefully, make things perfectly clear:
1) Sunshine CC
They have been accused of something (publicly) from an event over 2 years ago, following 3rd hand feedback representing one side of the story. You think that the Kangaroo Court of BigCricket is the appropriate forum for this and want to suggest that Sunshine can be provided the opportunity to prove their innocence after the public airing of these accusations?
Who knows what actually occurred but it's not my role or anyone else within this forum to hold them to account in a Kangaroo Court setting. There are processes and vehicles for that and I will go out on a limp and suggest that these are not BigCricket.
2) the phasing out of the VSDCA Dividend
Of the 28 VSDCA clubs, argubaly 4 to 6 will confront immediate short to medium term challenge and will need make structural and strategic change to ensure they adapt to the new world. 6 to 8 clubs will be unaffected and it will have NO noticeable impact on the operational running of those clubs. The remaining 14 to 18 clubs will notice the reduction in annual Income but will have scope, capacity and resources to adapt to ensure that any pain is short term only and will not impact long term viability and sustainability.
The above issues are mutually exclusive and any concerns you hold pertaining to the Dividend removal should have no correlation to what is right/wrong or otherwise as to what Sunshine have been accused of. Neither you nor I are judge, jury and executioner in this space. As for being contradictory, in being serious for 30 seconds, the one basic principle of consideration I apply is how would I (or officials at other clubs - think of your own) feel with dirty laundry being aired in a public domain (that may or may not have any merit to it).
Boys, boys, boys! This is starting to get out of hand!!
There is NO doubt Westland has an issue with Sunshine and misses no opportunity to "pot' them, any chance he gets . But I defy anyone to tell me that they are remotely interested in what happened in July 2013 with a fellow club that is struggling to survive on a day to day basis.
We all need to move on and get ready for THIS season and if Westland feels so strongly about the way his former club is being administered, here's a tip, get a reform ticket together and challenge the incumbents at the next Annual Meeting. Then you can show all of us, rather than TELL all of us how the joint should be run.
Good luck, because i'm tippin' it won't be an easy gig.
Woody, I think your point 2 is a little understated. I've seen some financial statements that are a blood bath with the dividend. The 4 to 6 you are talking about have a huge battle to survive in the next 2-3 years. You would have to question whether a club's future is viable if they are unable to 'right the ship' prior to the dividend being phased out.
Common financial acumen tells us that a club not making a $9K profit with the dividend has a questionable future. Whether spending can be cut or alternate dividend stream found will be interesting to watch.
Agree with your comments, but if clubs haven't addressed it now and have deficiencies, it will be a mighty effort to right the ship. I know my target at KS was to make a profit equal to or greater than the dividend, which we were able to do more often than not!Really good challenge SS.
If a club has scale within their operating business model, irrespective of historic recorded profits or losses, adjustments can be made to said business model to ensure viability.
Where there is no real scale, this is where the challenge will exist as a remodelling of financial structures will not suffice and alternate considerations need be explored.
Certainly will be interesting times mate.
You are on the right track, and I know Alex Sorgiovanni and his team are working very hard to put the club back on a solid footing. I gave Alex a wrap by a post on this forum when he took on the presidency. I have the utmost respect for the players, never having posted any comments about them. Nor did I ever comment on Weapons performance as coach. I think he did a very good job. The club's lack of on-field performance cannot fairly be laid at his feet.
I do not appreciate Ben Wood's attitude towards members of this forum. His persistent efforts to have us conform to what he thinks is appropriate comment is both condescending and inappropriate.
And I, and others, don't appreciate your attitude towards the VSDCA heirachy and/or clubs and their officials.
Pretty comfortable with the position that the above warrant and have earned my respect more than those running their mouths in this forum.
As pointed out to you yesterday by S&W, perhaps less time telling all and sundry on what everyone is doing wrong and more time putting your hand up to do something about it.
Everyone can highlight problems, less can find solutions to these problems or own responsibility of delivering these solutions.
Perhaps stand for something more than telling us all how others are failing.
Oh Good! Another articulate post from our VTCA friends.Are Ben Wood et al available for speaking engagements at functions?
Curators not getting paid, forums being hijacked by club officials, Cricket Victoria shutting the door...
I reckon the Country Week teams will end up travelling down and have their wallets knicked out of their kitbags next!
Wake up to yourselves you clowns.
Don't worry about the reputation of Subbies and its clubs, the rest of suburban cricket regard you as a self-serving relic trapped in a competition that rewards mediocrity and draws talent from Premier/District with CV paying for the privilege till recently.
What a pack of self deluded ratbags, but by all means carry-on, it's mildly entertaining.
Are Ben Wood et al available for speaking engagements at functions?
Curators not getting paid, forums being hijacked by club officials, Cricket Victoria shutting the door...
I reckon the Country Week teams will end up travelling down and have their wallets knicked out of their kitbags next!
Wake up to yourselves you clowns.
Don't worry about the reputation of Subbies and its clubs, the rest of suburban cricket regard you as a self-serving relic trapped in a competition that rewards mediocrity and draws talent from Premier/District with CV paying for the privilege till recently.
What a pack of self deluded ratbags, but by all means carry-on, it's mildly entertaining.
Are Ben Wood et al available for speaking engagements at functions?
Curators not getting paid, forums being hijacked by club officials, Cricket Victoria shutting the door...
I reckon the Country Week teams will end up travelling down and have their wallets knicked out of their kitbags next!
Wake up to yourselves you clowns.
Don't worry about the reputation of Subbies and its clubs, the rest of suburban cricket regard you as a self-serving relic trapped in a competition that rewards mediocrity and draws talent from Premier/District with CV paying for the privilege till recently.
What a pack of self deluded ratbags, but by all means carry-on, it's mildly entertaining.
If the VSDCA heirarchy are made aware of your posts of late, their major concern would more likely be you, given you are the president of a VSDCA club, and post under your own name. If I had intended to reveal the Brimbank Leader article to embarass Sunshine, I would have done so when it was released more than 2 years ago. You are responsible for my now revealing it in order to protect my integrity against your baseless and incorrect claims. Your post was an utter disgrace using emotive and totally unjustified adjectives.
No problems with Crossing going at all, good riddance to them, at least they won't have promotion and relegation for a couple of yearsOh Good! Another articulate post from our VTCA friends.
"Self serving relic, eh" Don't know if you noticed, chump. but we just took another of YOUR clubs (Hoppers Crossing) and there is a substantial waiting list hoping to join our comp. We'll be in touch when there is a vacancy. Just don't call us, we'll call you.
No problems with Crossing going at all, good riddance to them, at least they won't have promotion and relegation for a couple of years
When a club declines to go on the public record about an allegation of unpaid invoices then there is a pretty strong chance the invoices weren't paid. If they had been paid, you would think that such a club would go on the record and deny such allegations. It is simply not on that curators, coaches, or players provide their services to a subbies club and not receive their remuneration. Any club that fails to fulfill it's obligations is actually bringing the entire comp into disrepute. Even though it is not a good news story it deserves to be out there.
Reasonably comfortable with where I stand with the VSDCA Executive. However, if you have any issue or concern, do not hesitate in taking it up with them directly. In fact, if you believe this to be a concern, I encourage you to do so. I am more than comfortable in being held to account by the VSDCA Executive or my VSDCA Executive peer universe if they are aggrieved with anything that I do or say.
I sound like a broken record but, again, YES - I comment under my own name as I stand behind the comments and responses that are made publicly. Those who know me, appreciate that this is consistent with my behaviour - if I feel something needs be said, it will be said (right, wrong or indifferent; they would expect nothing less). I do not need hide behind an alias as I am comfortable with all comments attributed.
I think you have missed the point of earlier responses on this subject - move on, we're not interested in any Brimbank article from 2 years ago. Re-read comments with this regard, no one disputed what may or may not have happened. In fact, on multiple occasions, it was publicly stated that I did not know and it was not my business. The point highlighted being we don't care and there is no relevance in re-hashing events from 2 years ago as no one wins and it serves no purpose.
What both myself and Short and Wide have pointed out to you is that events of 2 years ago are, in many ways, irrelevant. Move on. Nothing is gained by you going on about it.
Again - you want to make a difference to how cricket is evolving and developing in this state, jump on a club board somewhere and direct energies currently wasted in this forum to delivering tangible benefits for club, Association and community.
Don't disagree if contractual obligations have not been met or fulfilled even though public airing would not be my modus operandi.
Do you know this to be the case categorically?!? Or are we relying on "a close friend of the Coach in question for one side only of an event that is over 2 years old"?
Yeah - that's the responsibility we need and, on the evidence above, it most certainly needs be out there.
"Hey, in my interpretation, based on club silence - there is a good chance they have done the wrong thing, I'm running with that." Smart, reasoned, rational and fair.