Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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someblokecalleddave said:
This is that whole thing with spinning everything and anything - sitting there in front of the TV and doing it, doing with apples, doing it with oranges, do it all the time. Eventually you'll start to feel what's right. Then when you bowl, you'll feel it as it comes out of the hand, it'll feel right and you'll know it's right and it'll do all the right things. For me, some days it does and other days it doesn't and I don't think it's just down to what happens with the hand - it's a whole body thing.
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Just reading your blog Dave, I'm reminded of some early commentary on Warne from Benaud. I couldn't possibly say exactly when but I distinctly remember Benaud exclaiming that Warne would 'spin it on glass' and more importantly that he wished he'd known about Warne's loose grip on the ball when he was bowling, because he gripped the ball tightly simply through a belief that it was preferable at the time.
 
boogiespinner said:
Just reading your blog Dave, I'm reminded of some early commentary on Warne from Benaud. I couldn't possibly say exactly when but I distinctly remember Benaud exclaiming that Warne would 'spin it on glass' and more importantly that he wished he'd known about Warne's loose grip on the ball when he was bowling, because he gripped the ball tightly simply through a belief that it was preferable at the time.
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That's interesting, I'll add that now!
 
Chino#21 said:
Had a great match today; with regards to bowling at least. I picked up three wickets (RHB) for 27 runs in ten on-the-trot overs, with only two wides.
My first wicket was the worst ball that I bowled, a hip high full toss that was caught by deep mid wicket. I didn't even bother celebrating, it was such a bad ball I almost felt bad for getting that wicket. But it was a great batsman who played for our club previously and can slog you out of the park if you don't get him early on, so I was quite fortunate.
The wicket was followed by a few dropped catches and close LBWs that weren't given, and by "a few" I mean about three of each. I switched to bowling from around the wickets early on to the right-handers in hopes of hitting the rough and bowling them through the gate. That's when I started drying up the runs completely. There was a nice patch that I was aiming for and hitting consistently, resulting in either huge turn and bounce or no turn and low bounce.
My backspinners were coming out beautifully, I pitched them more or less on off stump and made them skid on, squaring the batsmen up. I bowled a few googlies as well that had the same effect. But my stock ball was still the show stopper, I was drifting it from the stumps to the rough patch about one and a half feet - a foot outside off, ensuring that I could not be hit to the leg side but also attacking the stumps. It was easy to bowl this line because I could pitch the ball very full, approximately 2.1 meters from the stumps. My second wicket was a stumping, well done by the keeper, I saw the batsman coming and deliberately bowled the ball a bit wider and shorter outside off.
The last wicket I took was a backspinner that pitched on middle and trapped the batsman LBW off an attempted pull shot. It was a bit of a long hop but the sudden change in angle and pace was enough to get a wicket. And bad balls take wickets when good balls can only impress. It's a great way to start off the new year, especially after the 1-89 in 7 fiasco. Today I bowled well enough to take wickets against any team. With the support of my fielders (and the umpires, haha) I could do excellent in the remaining games which we have to win in order to get into the semi-finals.
Things didn't go so well with the bat, when I came in we needed 70 runs in 20 overs and I had only the number 10 and 11 to support me, so we opted for just blocking the remaining overs away. I scored 2 runs off about 50 or so deliveries. In my head I was being the nightwatchman for the Proteas.
The ball didn't follow me at all in the field today. Just the usual pick up and throw to the keeper once an over. I did have a few teasers to the boundary but the outfield wasn't one that was suited to diving unless you're okay with losing most of the skin off your stomach. I took a great forward diving catch, but it was the only real chance I had which was quite anti-climatic after my bowling.
Leg spin pays off if you are willing to stick with it, in our practices I've been bowling horribly but today was a day that everything got back together again.
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Not accusing you of being a show off, but when you narrate your bowling it seems like you bowl amazingly well.... Or maybe its because im very bad lol
 
Chino#21 said:
Had a great match today; with regards to bowling at least. I picked up three wickets (RHB) for 27 runs in ten on-the-trot overs, with only two wides.
My first wicket was the worst ball that I bowled, a hip high full toss that was caught by deep mid wicket. I didn't even bother celebrating, it was such a bad ball I almost felt bad for getting that wicket. But it was a great batsman who played for our club previously and can slog you out of the park if you don't get him early on, so I was quite fortunate.
The wicket was followed by a few dropped catches and close LBWs that weren't given, and by "a few" I mean about three of each. I switched to bowling from around the wickets early on to the right-handers in hopes of hitting the rough and bowling them through the gate. That's when I started drying up the runs completely. There was a nice patch that I was aiming for and hitting consistently, resulting in either huge turn and bounce or no turn and low bounce.
My backspinners were coming out beautifully, I pitched them more or less on off stump and made them skid on, squaring the batsmen up. I bowled a few googlies as well that had the same effect. But my stock ball was still the show stopper, I was drifting it from the stumps to the rough patch about one and a half feet - a foot outside off, ensuring that I could not be hit to the leg side but also attacking the stumps. It was easy to bowl this line because I could pitch the ball very full, approximately 2.1 meters from the stumps. My second wicket was a stumping, well done by the keeper, I saw the batsman coming and deliberately bowled the ball a bit wider and shorter outside off.
The last wicket I took was a backspinner that pitched on middle and trapped the batsman LBW off an attempted pull shot. It was a bit of a long hop but the sudden change in angle and pace was enough to get a wicket. And bad balls take wickets when good balls can only impress. It's a great way to start off the new year, especially after the 1-89 in 7 fiasco. Today I bowled well enough to take wickets against any team. With the support of my fielders (and the umpires, haha) I could do excellent in the remaining games which we have to win in order to get into the semi-finals.
Things didn't go so well with the bat, when I came in we needed 70 runs in 20 overs and I had only the number 10 and 11 to support me, so we opted for just blocking the remaining overs away. I scored 2 runs off about 50 or so deliveries. In my head I was being the nightwatchman for the Proteas.
The ball didn't follow me at all in the field today. Just the usual pick up and throw to the keeper once an over. I did have a few teasers to the boundary but the outfield wasn't one that was suited to diving unless you're okay with losing most of the skin off your stomach. I took a great forward diving catch, but it was the only real chance I had which was quite anti-climatic after my bowling.
Leg spin pays off if you are willing to stick with it, in our practices I've been bowling horribly but today was a day that everything got back together again.
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Did you have any assistance from the wind with your drift? I've just been watching the NZ v Sri Lanka highlights and the bloke bowling spin there was getting the ball to drift but they were all saying he was getting a lot of assistance from the wind.
 
Chino#21 said:
I did bowl amazingly well today, obviously there are days when I bowl 3 or 4 long hops an over or bowl full tosses all day long. Today there were very few of those, I was feeling confident, the pitch assisted me and the ball came out nicely. If I was bowling badly or averagely I wouldn't get those figures, bowling againt the top 5 batsmen of the opposition.
I'm by no means suggesting that I'm Shane Warne or anyone of the sorts, in fact I'm as far from him as any other leg spinner. But I am capable (like any other bowler) of bowling exceptionally well on a day when everything just works out. It's also a matter of knowing what my natural capacity and capability is and then judging my bowling on that. I feel like I bowled about 80% today which is good. (80% referring to all the factors such as accuracy, spin etc.) Another bowler might get 5 wickets for 10 runs in 15 overs and that would just be another average day in the field for him.
That's why we can't compare ourselves to other bowlers, we are unique in our natural capacity and capabilities. You should only judge yourself on what you know you can do and what you managed to do in a particular match.
Does this make sense or am I over-complicating it?
Sorry if I seemed show-offy, I was narrating my bowling according to what is good for me as a bowler, not neccesarily the general standard of "good bowling".
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No it's good to hear! I think you mentioning it in the context of the fact that you also went for 89 off of 7 for one wicket recently just goes to show that form and consistency is fickle.
 
shahidpak said:
Well we dont have a lot of matches so i dont have a lot of chances to bowl, i only bowled 19 overs this season, my best day is my worst one as well got 3wickets for bowling double bouncers and full tosses, i will have to move to the UK to get more overs :p, which may happen :(
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Yeah if you move here you'll get loads of cricket! Is this a family move or just you coming to study?
 
Chino#21 said:
There may have been a slight breeze which I was bowling against, the other conditions were also perfect for drift. I could bowl with as much flight as possible since we had an attacking mindset, and pitch the ball fuller than usual. The ball was absolutely ideal, one side was scuffed up and rough and the other side shiny and smooth, and it had a pronounced seam. It doesn't take much to drift a ball in those conditions.
Have any of you bought a gyroscope ball wrist strengthener? I got one recently and it feels like it works wonders for arm and wrist conditioning. It's a gyroscopic ball that you wind up and try to increase the revs on it by rotating your wrist as fast as you can. It's addictive and definitely increases wrist strength at an excellent rate. When I started using it I could only manage about 40 seconds of light revs and now I can do it for up to 5 minutes. It's great for grip strength as well, but you shouldn't use it too often. I nearly injured one of the tendons in my wrist by using it too much in succession. Rest is as important as exercise. It makes quite an unpleasant buzzing sound if you get high revs (up to 15000 RPM) almost like a mini-helicopter.
It's a promising new device, I think it might even be used by the professionals soon.
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What's it called - has it got brand name?
 
I've just looked at some video footage of my bowling which I shot a couple of days ago indoors and noticed something I was aware of as people had mentioned it to me (My sons) but wasn't that fussed about. But now having seen it I'm thinking - I need to address that. Most of the bowling action looks fine, but the landing foot out of the bound, doesn't come past the pivot foot with any energy. I know back in the day Macca noticed this and said that I needed to kick the back foot up high - almost to the point where it touches my bum, at the moment it barely getting off the ground as it comes through. In terms of the bowling action being a whole body affair, this aspect looks to be very wrong.
 
Chino#21 said:
Are you sure that is having such a big impact on your bowling? It may well be that your run-up doesn't generate enough energy to force your leg to go through with energy? I'm talking from limited experience, but I have seen several of your youtube bowling videos and what I noticed was that you were perhaps paying too much attention to small technical aspects and your bowling was suffering as a result. I have also fallen into this trap; trying to change simple things like the position of my front foot and then bowling badly when it was entirely uneccesary to make this change. Philpott makes the point that you should always avoid change just for the sake of change.
The ideal leg spin action is as fluent as possible. Just run up and bowl. After that you fine tune it so that everything runs smoothly, like a well oiled machine. I highly doubt if your back leg dragging through is so important, although it might be, I wouldn't really know because I haven't seen those videos. My basic advice would be to forget about it, just run un with the intent to deliver the ball with as much energy as possible, (evenly split between putting revs on the ball and bowling it with pace, or with slightly more energy into either) up to the point where you are feeling "contorted" and like a whip that has ben cracked violently and with force, always keeping your eyes on your target. I prefer to keep my eyes at the perfect length if I'm bowling from over, and the batsman's head from around. I think looking at the level of the head is ideal because that allows you to bowl the ball directly at the eye level and dip it down.
My back foot doesn't follow through at all sometimes, but I still get just as much energy on the ball without it. After you've let go of the ball, nothing matters except following through naturally and being ready for the return catch. Try not to worry about what happens after the release, but rather what you can do before and during the release to increase its effectiveness.
Again, I did not see the videos, I have no idea what you should / shouldn't do to your bowling action, but my own experience is that the release and action that happens before it is the only important aspect of the bowling action.
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Yeah you may well be right, but it's the kind of thing I'd explore and look at - wouldn't get too hung up on it though and if it didn't bring results relatively quickly I'd probably revert back to what I'm currently doing. I might copy the clip and up-load it.
 
shahidpak said:
Do you guys know someone who plays club level and bowls 130 kph ? How do they do that ? :eek: my brother bowls medium pace and even when he bowls his max he only bowls about 105 ?
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We have a bowler at our club who is in the 130-135 kph range. He's quite wirey, has a very nice action and carries plenty of pace into the crease in his run up.

I bowl a bit of seam in the nets from time to time. It's mostly to give the batters something else to bat against. But I do work a little to try and bowl with as much pace as I can. My run up to the crease is not quick at all. I may try to get a bit more pace into the run up. For now, I'm just focusing on body position at the crease and release.

A few things I wasn't doing and am now doing or trying to do:

1) Pull the left arm into my body to help speed through the crease

2) Ensure the fingers come down the back of the ball and really drag down the back of the ball (I used to slide down the side like a cutter - without realising it)

3) Try to get my bowling arm over the top of my standing leg


All pretty basic things but important things for bowling seam and the sort of things people tend to get wrong. I probably bowl about 115k to 120k at the quickest. I'm sure I could get it to 125k-130k with just better technique.
 
Cleanprophet said:
We have a bowler at our club who is in the 130-135 kph range. He's quite wirey, has a very nice action and carries plenty of pace into the crease in his run up.

I bowl a bit of seam in the nets from time to time. It's mostly to give the batters something else to bat against. But I do work a little to try and bowl with as much pace as I can. My run up to the crease is not quick at all. I may try to get a bit more pace into the run up. For now, I'm just focusing on body position at the crease and release.

A few things I wasn't doing and am now doing or trying to do:

1) Pull the left arm into my body to help speed through the crease

2) Ensure the fingers come down the back of the ball and really drag down the back of the ball (I used to slide down the side like a cutter - without realising it)

3) Try to get my bowling arm over the top of my standing leg


All pretty basic things but important things for bowling seam and the sort of things people tend to get wrong. I probably bowl about 115k to 120k at the quickest. I'm sure I could get it to 125k-130k with just better technique.
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120 k is very fast how can you be sûre that you bowl that speed, and the bloke who bowls 130, how did he achieve that? I somtimes sée skinny fast bowlers bowling 140 k on TV like junaid khan..
 
shahidpak said:
120 k is very fast how can you be sûre that you bowl that speed, and the bloke who bowls 130, how did he achieve that? I somtimes sée skinny fast bowlers bowling 140 k on TV like junaid khan..
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At the end of the day the really fast bowlers (those that bowl consistently above 140) were born with the fast twitch fibers that give them the potential to bowl fast and/or throw a ball a long way. The rest is hard work and, as Chino#21 has highlighted, good fundamentals in the bowling action.

Also as Chino#21 has stated, anyone who is fit, able and in the prime of their life can train to bowl in the 130s.

At a club level 130+ is noticeably fast whereas your average top grade club 'fast' bowler is probably only bowling 120-125, at lower grades even less.

One thing you notice as you progress up the grades is how slow the grades are that you left behind.
 
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