Wrist Spin Bowling

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Macca/Saddo, did you ever discover whether Grimmett named his Mystery Ball (The back-spinning Top-Spinner)? I'm using it now in games and need a name for it other than 'Grimmetts Mystery Ball'. Maybe I'll call it the GMB Flipper? Any other suggestions?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ah yes Spinach - you're right, I forgot about spinnach!

I think maybe with your bowling you're trying to do too much at the same time and possibly focusing on trying to to really difficult stuff at a too early stage in your career. I'd honestly leave the idea of turning the ball into the stumps from the Legside well alone for a year or two to be honest. I'd never contemplate using that as a delivery to hit the stumps unless I'd sussed that the batsman was completely inept at batting off his legs and down the legside. My experience is that even at club level most batsmen from the top order down to the bottom end of the middle order are more than enough equipped do deal with bowling in those areas and you'll be going for 4's on a very regular basis. I think a far more productive approach would be the off-stump attack method. You need to focus on your line more, by the sounds of it and maybe in the short term at the expense of some of your spin/deviation? All your fielders are going to be over on that side generally and if the line and length are good make sure that you show the bat that you can turn the ball away from the edge and you'll probably then see some respect given, it's just a case then of varying your speed, flight and turn and popping in the odd variation (Slider/Top-Spinner) to keep the B*****d on his toes and let him know who the boss is. I maintain that if you can do this and do it well you'll get your wickets by the bag full and this is without turning it big. Once you've got that nailed do as I'm doing - work on getting your Biggun using the same line - so your always on the stumps and if it does turn big it's good because that then show you've got potential to turn in from the legside, so then if one does stray down the legside, the bat would be in two minds as to whether it's intentional and therefore going to turn in big and may be more inclined to defend the ball rather than hit it for 4 or 6 out to deep square leg? I think with your 1 in 6 success rate that you've currently got a Legside approach will be fatal and see you taken off bowling duties within a couple of overs?

With regards your run in, I'd try and adapt it to the Warnesque approach, 4 or 5 regular walking steps into the 'Explosion' through the crease phase, I'm assuming that when you say Run in you mean a vigorous faster trot in rather than a few steps and the explosive bit?

I'll try the icing thing as well cheers.

the leg side line isnt intentional, i know i shouldnt be bowling out there, i just cant get the ball to go off side lol. when it does its usually massively overcompensated and ends up 2 feet outside off! it needs work for sure, but the length is pretty much there now.

my "run in" at present is literally 2 large normal paced walking strides from standing, then explode through the action into one overstep after release as i pivot.

the run in ive been using that doesnt work varies from 3-4 walking steps, a couple of jogged steps, a little "bounce" into my delivery stride, deliver the ball, and the momentum would take me into 2-3 more steps after release.

the run in that worked best, but still wasnt consistent was similar, but i stepped into my delivery stride VERY flat, the little "bounce" ive somehow acquired is the major issue i think. but this run in lost all its momentum from the flat final stride, and is no different to me just taking my 2 steps from standing, so i scrapped the run up completely.

i probably am trying to do too much too soon, which is why im simplifying things again. ive got all winter to slowly develop so i need to stop getting excited every time i do something right and then trying to take 10 steps forwards. because it always ends up in going 11 steps back a week later lol.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've got a question that has been thinking about for sometime and was wondering if any of you had any thoughts on it.

Basically I understand totally how the position of the wrist on release determines the direction of the spin on the ball. But what I was wondering is if most people position their wrist before they start running in, or in the gather or if in fact most people have the wrist in the same position for each variation and rely on the flick in the delivery to deliver the angle of spin they want.

I hope that makes sense.

If you read Peter Philpotts book 'The art of wrist spin bowling' and read anything by Richie Benuad one of the things that comes across loud and clear is the necessity to be absolutely focussed on what you are doing, so I'd assume that like me as I position myself for my run in I'd have already analysed what had just happened and will then be thinking what to do next and part of that process is the position of the wrist. But having said that the wrist takes what position is required for the delivery - I think 'Right Googly next' but don't have to think about twisting the wrist round, it just happens. But if I'm not getting any turn off the wicket I then think in terms of twisting the wrist slightly one way or another.

Surely as you produce your flick, it's a product of all 'The levers' working - Fingers, Wrist, elbow and shoulders and in the process the wrist assumes it position as you bowl the variation?

 

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

just to respond to a few of the many posts from yesterday...

1. with regards learning the top spinner first - i went to the club nets practice last night, and nobody else bothered to turn up. i guess being near the end of the season people arent practicing as much, and they are already in their respective teams, so there is no need for the networking aspect of training either. so i just bowled by myself instead for a couple of hours. i was struggling to bowl anything decent again, occasionally one would come out well, but my consistency is awful and it takes me an hour of solid bowling just to even edge close to an acceptable standard of bowling. i was using plenty of overspin again as that worked for me last practice, it wasnt last night!!

anyway, eventually i figured out my issue. its my run up. i started bowling off of two steps, with the aim of working up to the run up later as i found my consistency. i got the 2 step technique nailed, my length was awesome, 95% perfect id say. i went about 20 minutes of constant bowling without a single wayward ball on length, it was awesome!! everything was well flighted, and mostly turning. ive decided that the soft padded wicket surface doesnt help spin, the astroturf is too slippy. i actually prefer bowling on concrete. however its yet another turn challenge, if i can get the ball to turn big on rubbish surfaces, then turning on grass is going to be a doddle. the surface is meant more to give realistic bounce to pace bowlers i think, like its not enough that batsman are favoured over bowlers in cricket, pace bowlers are favoured over spinners. were fighting a losing battle here guys lol.

im now a no run up bowler though. there is just no need for it. im not bowling slowly by any means, and until such a time that i can find a comfortable run up technique im just going to do away with it. i find that bowling without the run up means i put much more effort into my follow through to compensate for the pace, and this in turn yields more spin. the run up just screws everything up, although earlier in the week i had it working perfectly. il come back to it during the winter i think when there is no cricket to be played, right now i want to get a few games before the season ends just as a taster for next year.

my line is still only about 20% accurate, its 95% consistent, but it ALWAYS goes leg side, anywhere from in line with leg to 6-12" outside. sometimes theres enough turn there to get it back, i was hitting the stumps a LOT, maybe every 6th ball. sometimes the ball is spinning like mad and just skids on, thats the surface at fault. sometimes it drifts and thats even more annoying because it ends up miles outside leg lol. any decent batsman would dispatch balls on that side unless they turn huge, so i need to sort my line out. its not as simple as re-aiming though, its an inherent flaw in my stance. i try to aim down the offside, and it still goes leg side. i square my body up, and it just goes wrong.

again though, with this method i started out with 45-60 degs of overspin with 45-30 degs of side spin respectively. that found me my consistent length and flight. from that i was then able to vary things after 15-20 mins with the same consistency. so from now on my practice sessions will begin with 20 mins of no run up top spinners. once they are working i am free to mix things up. my slider is getting better, i still cant figure out how on earth i am supposed to bowl a wrong'un, it WILL NOT come out spinning the other way, its actually incredibly frustrating, as i can bowl it in slow motion, my arm just wont adopt the position at full speed, it always wants to revert to a leg break. i guess thats better than vice versa lol. now that im not running up ive got my flipper back too. im back to where i started 4-5 weeks ago now, but with a ton more knowledge and understanding, and far improved accuracy.

2. lettuce probably doesnt qualify as a leafy green, its almost entirely water and has few nutrients. if you want a fix of vitamins and goodness then eat a bag of curly leafed Kale, or a bag of Spinach leaves. that will get you your vitamin fix. eat it raw, dont cook it or anything, youll lose all the good stuff.

3. sucks that you dislocated a finger Dave, but at least its the only one that doesnt play a part in leg spin lol. you could probably carry on with it dislocated if you wanted to, but its probably not worth the risk. if the rest gives other injuries a chance to heal and also gives you some more spare time though then it cant be worth even considering playing through it. might be worth icing it several times per day for 20 mins, should aid the recovery time.

One thing that I realised about my own action when I had a leg side problem was how my front leg had a big part to play in the issue. Firstly it was bending in my delivery stride which made it difficult to stay upright and controlled in the delivery and the other was that the delivery stride was too long making it hard to pivot over and around the front leg and again this made it very difficult to stay upright. Basically these faults made me fall over to the left in the delivery.

Another issue I had was that when you are trying to spin in hard me momentum was taking my body in the direction I was trying to spin the ball so to the left again and not forward towards the batsman as it should be. So for me the issue was caused by me falling to the left at delivery due to a few technical flaws in my action which I seem to have gotten rid of. I was totally unaware that I had these faults and so I'd say getting someone to have a look at you who knows what to look for is really important. Also I bowled with these problems for ages and found them really hard work get rid of so if you do have something similar to this the quicker you identify them the better.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Who out there sets their own field during their spell? Where do you bowl - are you primarily 'Round the legs' bowlers or on the Off-stump attackers. How do you set your field?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Video's the answer get someone to video you Jim and yeah you've got to be patient, it's taken me three years to get where I am at the minute and I'm still not convinced my bowling figures are purely down to skill - more likely a lucky run of crap batsmen!

 

[The Edge Of Willow]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

EOW what you doing bowling seam up?

I know; I am a complete tratior.

Good news is that I fixed the arm thing in a pretty good net session yesterday. The turn wasn't really there; my release was wrong and my pivot was all over the place, but my action flowed much better thanks to the arm thing being fixed(both my leg-spin and off-spin).

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I like this point from Paulinho......

"Another issue I had was that when you are trying to spin it hard my momentum was taking my body in the direction I was trying to spin the ball so to the left again and not forward towards the batsman as it should be".

I myself can't bowl round arm and have a very high and straight arm action and this may be instrumental in me being able to bowl big Wrong Uns whilst at the same work against me in my attempts at bowling the Big Leg Break, but that's then possibly off-set by the fact that I have superb accuracy line-wise.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

What made you change your bowling style? Did you yourself think I'm getting nowhere with this and not getting overs in matches or did your captain or someone suggest you bowl in a different manner because you were too expensive or not coming up with a result? I'm assuming for some reason that you're quite young between 14 - 18 years old and as far as I can make out this is the stage when cricket loses a huge amount of blokes completely or if they stay in the game they give up on Leg-Spinning because of the fact there's very little support at the clubs they play for and the captains and selectors don't give them a chance. This is why it's essential to maintain practice on your own and keep developing as a Leggie.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Another little thing to always remember when you're a wristy and this is recognised by loads of people at club level including the mycoach bloke David Hinchcliffe is that 'S**t bowling takes wickets'. As long as you pitch it up there and flight it in a lot of club batsmen see this as an excuse to take you to the cleaners and suddenly think they're Matthew Hayden or Sanath Jayasuria and invariably make a fatal mistake and get themselves out. So in a way you shouldn't get too hung up if things are not going perfectly for you as long as some of your bowling is coming together things will happen. I normally bowl in tandem with a bloke who gets the Yips and his bowling goes to pieces, but he takes wickets and he gets his overs every week yet I think he'd readily admit that his accuracy isn't that brilliant some days and that he's expensive as a bowler, but he turns the ball a country mile from out-side Leg (When he gets it right) and brings it back in on the stumps or forces a fatal mistake.

 

[The Edge Of Willow]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Oh, I haven't changed my bowling style at all. I've always done a bit of seam up. And a bit of off-spin. I just put a little bit more practice into my seam-up than usual lately. I'm still mostly a spin bowler. Don't worry, I'm still avid wrist-spinner.

I had a very good net session today. My spin was back. Plus it was much faster than the rather slow stuff I had been bowling before I had remedied the problem with my front arm. I'm now pretty much back to where I was before I sprained the middle finger on my bowling hand. It seems I had forgotten a lot in that four week lay off.

 

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I like this point from Paulinho......

"Another issue I had was that when you are trying to spin it hard my momentum was taking my body in the direction I was trying to spin the ball so to the left again and not forward towards the batsman as it should be".

I myself can't bowl round arm and have a very high and straight arm action and this may be instrumental in me being able to bowl big Wrong Uns whilst at the same work against me in my attempts at bowling the Big Leg Break, but that's then possibly off-set by the fact that I have superb accuracy line-wise.

I’ve read that one of the big reasons the googly can for some be easier to bowl accurately is that the arm is for most people higher and comes down straighter taking the body with it and all the momentum is in the direction of the target. Couple that with the fact that anatomically the googly is a far more natural position for the wrist to take and that you’d probably get better results faster from bowling them I’m surprised more people don’t completely loose their leg breaks when learning to bowl the wrong’un.

Just compare Mushtaq Ahmed and Anil Kumble (great googly bowlers, really high arms) with Warne and McGill (massive ripping leg breaks round arm by comparison)

I don't think I could bowl a big leg break without going a little round arm or a wrongun without going higher

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I bowled rubbish today although the whole team played crap Wrist Spin Bowling: That wasn't good.... I think it was in part due to the fact that the pitch offered no assistance at all with bounce and the game was a lost cause from the outset. I'm slightly worried that the amount of turn I'm getting at the minute with my Leg Break seems to be disappearing, but again I just didn't feel like I was on form either so I'll just have to see what happens next week?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

There in lies a dilemma, I reckon I'll stick to my straight arm with good accuracy and possibly never have a Killer big Leg Break, as I keep saying a small to decent Leg Break suffices. I wonder if there's anyone that would advocate losing your leg break temporarily for a year or two like I did just in order to fully learn the wrong un?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svjEQWOIAiA

 

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

If you read Peter Philpotts book 'The art of wrist spin bowling' and read anything by Richie Benuad one of the things that comes across loud and clear is the necessity to be absolutely focussed on what you are doing, so I'd assume that like me as I position myself for my run in I'd have already analysed what had just happened and will then be thinking what to do next and part of that process is the position of the wrist. But having said that the wrist takes what position is required for the delivery - I think 'Right Googly next' but don't have to think about twisting the wrist round, it just happens. But if I'm not getting any turn off the wicket I then think in terms of twisting the wrist slightly one way or another.

Surely as you produce your flick, it's a product of all 'The levers' working - Fingers, Wrist, elbow and shoulders and in the process the wrist assumes it position as you bowl the variation?

I've read that book I don't know how many times now so all the theory is stored in my head somewhere. I think my big problems are some sessions everything falls into place and I can bowl where I want with the ball doing what i want and then a week later my body forgets how to bowl and things go to pieces. my biggest frustration is my leg break which varies from no turn when I'm really trying to put revs on the ball to dramtic 2 foot + turn without me seemingly putting any effort into it other than making sure my palm is facing down on release (this is something I struggle with and I think I bowl top spinners most of the time unless I concentrate on this). I'm sure practice is the key but like someone once said to me Shane Warne gets more practice in a week than most club cricketers do in a season.

 

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

There in lies a dilemma, I reckon I'll stick to my straight arm with good accuracy and possibly never have a Killer big Leg Break, as I keep saying a small to decent Leg Break suffices. I wonder if there's anyone that would advocate losing your leg break temporarily for a year or two like I did just in order to fully learn the wrong un?

YouTube - Big Wrong Un

kumble only had a small leg break and a great googly and took 619 test wickets

warne had no googly to speak of and a massive leg break and took 708

so not much in it really, I guess making the best of what you have is the key.

 

[Mr_Cricket]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Starting to practice my leg spin bowling more now since the start of outdoor season is near. The only experience i have had is at indoor cricket bowling my leg spinners. Just recently fix my grip up from spinning with my middle finger to now spinning with my ring finger which has improved my revs on the ball. Currently I'm just working through my problems.

1. Run up: my double back foot jump
2. line and length i keep pushing the ball leg side.

There the main problems at the moment i need to fix. Not going to bother with other variations until i get my stock leg spin ball going.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

There in lies a dilemma, I reckon I'll stick to my straight arm with good accuracy and possibly never have a Killer big Leg Break, as I keep saying a small to decent Leg Break suffices. I wonder if there's anyone that would advocate losing your leg break temporarily for a year or two like I did just in order to fully learn the wrong un?

YouTube - Big Wrong Un

Dave, going more roundarm during your winter training might be a good idea for you.
Roundarm can also give the topspinner extra pace off the pitch, remember Grimmetts "ducks and drakes" analogy?
Bradman says in " Art of cricket" that Grimmetts incredible topspinner was partly the result of the roundarm Grimmett employed.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've read that book I don't know how many times now so all the theory is stored in my head somewhere. I think my big problems are some sessions everything falls into place and I can bowl where I want with the ball doing what i want and then a week later my body forgets how to bowl and things go to pieces. my biggest frustration is my leg break which varies from no turn when I'm really trying to put revs on the ball to dramtic 2 foot + turn without me seemingly putting any effort into it other than making sure my palm is facing down on release (this is something I struggle with and I think I bowl top spinners most of the time unless I concentrate on this). I'm sure practice is the key but like someone once said to me Shane Warne gets more practice in a week than most club cricketers do in a season.

That's interesting to hear about Warnes practicing. I know absolutely nothing about Warne so it's good to hear that he does put the hours in. I'm waiting for a book from him similar to the likes of Grimmetts 'Taking Wickets' or Philpotts one that you've mentioned. It'd be brilliant to have him explain his theories in detail or better still make a really comprehensive DVD series where he explains everything in detail.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I had a go a couple of days ago just as an experiment and it just felt really odd and I lost my line, but you're probably right, maybe I should give it a go over the winter and see how it works out? As you say Grimmetts skimming stones theory testifies to it's potential.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Starting to practice my leg spin bowling more now since the start of outdoor season is near. The only experience i have had is at indoor cricket bowling my leg spinners. Just recently fix my grip up from spinning with my middle finger to now spinning with my ring finger which has improved my revs on the ball. Currently I'm just working through my problems.

1. Run up: my double back foot jump
2. line and length i keep pushing the ball leg side.

There the main problems at the moment i need to fix. Not going to bother with other variations until i get my stock leg spin ball going.

Yeah - leave the variations and take it step by step. Have you seen the Beau Casson video clip that's on-line as there's a load of good stuff in that clip.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I had a go a couple of days ago just as an experiment and it just felt really odd and I lost my line, but you're probably right, maybe I should give it a go over the winter and see how it works out? As you say Grimmetts skimming stones theory testifies to it's potential.

Accuracy will suffer at first, maybe go a bit more roundarm just slowly and slightly to start with. You still have to reach up more for the wrongun but I prefer to bowl the topspinner fairly roundarm as well.

It may not work for you but you can drop the idea over the winter and no harm done.

Your present technique works for you, and I am always telling blokes to go more roundarm, so I am not telling you need to do it , just try it in the off season maybe?

 

[Rising_Fury]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Mr_Cricket
one problem i had was i always used to push the ball down leg side
the cause was i did not have a strait run up when this was fixed no more going down there

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

It's definitely an option to look at if I'm going to be trying to develop my Leg Break into something that'll turn better.

I still haven't been able to use my Grimmett Top-Spinner yet in a match, everything seems to be working against me, preventing me from getting a chance. It's a good delivery very accurate and I seem to be able to bowl it as a one off in amongst all the other variations and produce the accuracy. I've neglected the back-spinning Flipper and hardly ever use it as this Top-Spinning version just looks far more useful.

Macca have you got the other Grimmett book 'Tricking the Batsman'?

 

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I used to bowl down the leg side and was given the useful advice that it was going down the leg side because I was bowling it there. That little gem really helped in making me try too hard and drag it down outside off stump

I later found that my front leg was bent at delivery so I was losing my balance and once I corrected this my leg side problem went away.

Might be worth making sure your front leg is braced when you deliver the ball and that your shoulders are rotating over each other and not around each other.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I am sure you have seen this. The first part explains swing, while the second part starts explaining spin. Had seen it months ago but lost it. I think it is a very good explanation. YouTube - (3/6) Science of Sport - Cricket . And continuued here, even though he says ut bounces with backspin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4tGaoSz14g&feature=related Well actually it continues on part 4.

I seem to be the only leggie logging hours at work rather on the field, you lucky bu'\\\rs.


Sorry to hear of your dislocation, you will need to ice it regularly to reduce the swelling. They can take some time to heal. The good thing is you do not have a fracture or tendon/nerve/vessel involvement.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i had a mammoth practice session today. i barely got any in last week because the first day i tried it was really humid and i wasnt bowling well and just got too frustrated and angry and called it quits after 20 mins lol. then it rained on my club practice evening and i was away for a stag weekend til sunday (which im still aching from lol). so today i put in about 2-3 hours, and it was very productive!

it took a while to find rhythm, off of 2 basic steps my bowling was good, fairly consistent, especially from about 16 yards. i can bowl the exact delivery i want near enough every time, and land it within probably 6" of my target, most of the time.

step back those 4 yards or so and things fell apart. the ball got sprayed high, wide on the leg side, dragged down onto the off side, dropped short, etc. with the occasional good ball. a major problem is that the nets i practice at are low in the first place, in a really poor state in terms of the netting and framework (the wicket is concrete but fairly consistent and very flat), and the front of the netting hangs down 2 feet on the right hand side. so anything flighted even slightly above normal ends up on top of the net, which is literally 1 ball in every 4. on a proper pitch they would be perfectly acceptable deliveries, im never afraid to flight it well up, theres no such thing as too much flight IMO so long as the ball isnt full toss or super slow.

anyway, i was really working on my run up and follow through, trying to nail it, as 2 steps from 20 yards or so just isnt enough power to bowl as full as i want to. i tried getting myself side on, front on, leaning into the delivery, staying upright. nothing was consistent. so i dropped short and bowled from there again, kept at it. i think ive finally found my issues though!!

1. i over analyse things too much. the less i think about the run up and follow through, the more natural it becomes, and the more success i seem to get.

2. i underestimated how crucially important it is to start your delivery action on the BACK FOOT!!! i wonder how many other people find this problem when they go from stepping into their deliveries to running into them. the forward momentum meant that i would transfer too much weight onto the front foot, even if i kept the leg straight, and this was resulting in minimal spin as i was leaning into the action. when i tried to stay upright i wouldnt rotate enough and everything would go high on the leg side. as soon as i realised that the big difference between stepping into deliveries and running into them was the weight distribution i nailed it.

so now i take a big final stride, get my front arm high to keep the weight rearwards (i now see why people always say its important to get the front arm high!!), then transfer my weight forwards WITH my arm movement, as well as rotating. i think its important that the trailing leg steps OVER the imaginary box, as when i had my weight forwards my rear leg would just flick up, and not round enough. i try to stay as upright as possible and this gives maximum rotation and results in the maximum spin on the ball. i find if i roll my shoulders over too much then my line is more consistent, but the ball just doesnt have the same number of rotations. i need to find a balance in between i think.

the end result is that ive rediscovered the same consistency, accuracy and large amounts of spin that i had 2-3 weeks ago when i was still bowling off of a one step run up. as soon as i started running i lost all of those things.

the only issue i still have is that overspun leg breaks are consistent, but hard spun big leg breaks can still spray a bit, i think its to do with my chest getting too square at the start of the delivery action. it needs more work. ive also lost the consistency of my slider, again i think this is the same issue. its because my palm isnt facing sideways, and i am dragging my arm around too much.

my small to medium leg breaks are spinning as much as my big leg breaks were when i wasnt running in, the ball is travelling much faster down the wicket, this in turn is giving me tons of genuine drift when i get one right (not wind assisted, there was no wind at all today, not even a breeze), and things are looking much improved again theres nothing as satisfying as a good productive practice session. and theres nothing worse than a really unproductive one where nothing goes right. confidence and mental strength are so important, when i get a few deliveries right my entire action improves. if i can find that mindset even when things are going wrong i think it will help a lot.

net practice on thursday against some decent batsmen hopefully, lets see if i can get some "wickets" and have them struggling with drift, turn and bounce

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

just to respond to a few of the many posts from yesterday...


anyway, eventually i figured out my issue. its my run up. i started bowling off of two steps, with the aim of working up to the run up later as i found my consistency. i got the 2 step technique nailed, my length was awesome, 95% perfect id say. i went about 20 minutes of constant bowling without a single wayward ball on length, it was awesome!! everything was well flighted, and mostly turning. ive decided that the soft padded wicket surface doesnt help spin, the astroturf is too slippy. i actually prefer bowling on concrete. however its yet another turn challenge, if i can get the ball to turn big on rubbish surfaces, then turning on grass is going to be a doddle. the surface is meant more to give realistic bounce to pace bowlers i think, like its not enough that batsman are favoured over bowlers in cricket, pace bowlers are favoured over spinners. were fighting a losing battle here guys lol.

im now a no run up bowler though. there is just no need for it. im not bowling slowly by any means, and until such a time that i can find a comfortable run up technique im just going to do away with it. i find that bowling without the run up means i put much more effort into my follow through to compensate for the pace, and this in turn yields more spin. the run up just screws everything up, although earlier in the week i had it working perfectly. il come back to it during the winter i think when there is no cricket to be played, right now i want to get a few games before the season ends just as a taster for next year.




.

It is the same with me. The longer the run up the less the accuracy and the less the turn/spin. The simpler the whole movement the better for me. But having said that practicing 1 hour every 2 weeks will not see me improving too much further. I agree though that bowling the bigger leg break ( with my unstylish round arm) off 2 steps is much more effective than my usual slow running 6 steps.

I also agree that the googly seems to benefit from a more vertical arm position. Round arm I always spray it well down the leg side, even though the mystery ball has loads of potential as a topspinning offbreak/wrong one.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Drift - oh for some drift! I thought I saw one of mine drift today for the 1st time ever.

I had a good session as well it was broken up into three sessions of about an hour or so each with a couple of hours in between each.

Have a look - Wrist Spin Bowling: The Biggun

Jim point 1. about the run up is crucial. Your run up needs to be smooth and fluid and of no consequence at all, it's something you need to get sussed to the point that you don't even think about it as you bowl.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The image isn't actually my dislocation, I was in such a hurry to get to the hospital that I forgot to take a camera which is a real shame as the XRAY was classic, even the Xray bloke seemed impressed. The nurse who put it back didn't mention any ice and to be honest it looks as though the swelling has already gone down. Don't tell anyone but I was bowling with the kids tonight, but I was using the Iverson Gleeson grip and not attempting to spin it or bowl it with any sense of effort and I only bowled 3 overs!

Yeah your work load sounds knackering, how out of sync is your time compared to BST or is it the same - it's just after 11pm here at the mo. Similar with Macca I assume that he's a freelancer hence the reason he's able to comment at what must be around midday?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Drift - oh for some drift! I thought I saw one of mine drift today for the 1st time ever.

I had a good session as well it was broken up into three sessions of about an hour or so each with a couple of hours in between each.

Have a look - Wrist Spin Bowling: The Biggun

Jim point 1. about the run up is crucial. Your run up needs to be smooth and fluid and of no consequence at all, it's something you need to get sussed to the point that you don't even think about it as you bowl.

something to ponder on your big leg break - i find that the biggest turn i acheive is actually with a backspun slider with about 45 degrees of side spin on it. so the principal of backspin is a major component, my slider when it comes out like this can almost spin around a corner! a 90 degree side spun leg break however almost never turns. ive been watching lots and lots of shane warne videos and his rarely turn either...

if you watch all of the greatest shane warne wicket videos on youtube, of which there are plenty, listen to the commentators. even richie benaud says in one "thats as perfect a slider as youll ever see". the ball goes dead straight and stays fairly low. then watch it again. the seam is a perfect 90 degrees and spinning like mad in flight!! i just dont think that there are many pitches at all that take to a perfect 90 degree seam, especially concrete, artificial wickets, and very hard flat grass wickets. footholes, softer wickets and outfield grass are probably the exception.

im not sure what sort of seam angle your big leg break consists of. but it may be worth trying to get some accurate video of the ball in flight over an hour or so of practice so that you can compare the ones that turn with the ones that dont. my 45-60 degree seam (e.g. more side spin than overspin) deliveries seem to be the largest conventional leg breaks. my slider when it comes out sideways is by far the largest turner of all my deliveries though. it seems that the more backspin you get on the ball, upto a point, the more friction is produced off the wicket, the more speed is taken off of the ball, and thus it is able to impart more sideways movement, with less forward momentum. the end result being a ball that quite literally turns around corners. it also does so with an incredibly unusual bounce. ive already pictured purposes for it...

e.g. bowl maybe 3 heavily top spun (for added bounce!) leg breaks outside leg stump. hopefully the batsman figures out the 3rd one and smashes it for a 4 on the leg side. bowl one more. then bowl the sliding delivery but pitch it up a little further. hopefully the batsman will expect it to bounce up to his waist, play over the top of the ball by a good foot, and it will bowl him round his legs for probably the most embarassing wicket a leg spinner can take

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Saddo you've got the Mystery ball as well! How's your hand - did it suffer initially?

 

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Well it has taken me awhile to realise this but I think I may have wasted a year.

I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ve been using the technique that Dave described as “The Cocked Wrist with the straightening of the hand at release” on his excellent webpage Legspin bowling I had believed that I was using the “The real leg break with the flick” but sadly not.

I’ve found that for me this was very accurate but I couldn’t really product a leg break with much turn and a big leg break was out of the question. Basically I’ve been bowling top spinners because anatomically I can’t get my wrist around enough to get the seam in the right position for a leg break.

As you can imagine this was very frustrating as I couldn’t understand at the time why. So I watched the Cloverdale Cricket Masterclass on leg spin for the 100th time, this has really good slow motion images of Shane Warne bowling the various deliveries (although his head is blurred out for some reason). Having watched it I realised that the as usual I have been over thinking and over complicating the whole thing and that the mechanics of the grip in combination with getting your hand in the correct position just after release produces the delivery you want. You must all be thinking what a dummy at this point and rightly so, but as I should have realised long ago if you get all the levels working you can get massive spin on the ball without trying that hard at all really.

So went to nets an hour early so I’d have the place to myself and decided to forget all I was doing before and try what I’d seen cocked wrist, loose grip concentrating on my palm facing down and fingers pointing at the batsman on release and low and behold a leg break pitched outside leg hitting middle. Them same again this time with the fingers sort of pointing towards second slip so the ball is spinning back into the body like Peter Philpott describes and probably the biggest leg break I’ve ever bowled, outside leg missing off stump by some way. I was spraying it around a lot but did bowl more “ball of the century” type deliveries that I think I may have done in a season in one hour. All the variations were pretty simple as well, slider comes out nicely using a sort of karate chop finish wrong’un and top spinner. If I’d picked all of this up a year ago I might be quite a handy leg spinner by now but back to the start for me I think.

Moral of the story read Peter Philpott’s book properly and follow the stages in it properly. And possibly get someone who knows what they are talking about to watch you, I think if I’d taken a video of myself I may have figured this all out much earlier. The funny thing is I do know all of this stuff and could probably spot it in someone I was watching but couldn’t apply it to myself at all.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Work in a hospital, so tomorrow a straight 24 hours. Here we are past midnight, so it is curtains from me. Hope the nurse was to your liking, joking!

As regards the mystery ball, I tried it every 50/60 balls. Never get it to move straight on. Must be a problem with my wrist, it always ends up as an offspinner. Bowled it to little to get any strain I'm afraid. Last 2 months temperatures in low to mid 30 C and very humid, so practice has been very sporadic to put it mildly.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Cheers for the endorsement! Glad to hear you're doing so well, unfortunately I haven't got a camera that'll record the ball in flight with that much detail. But I'm quite happy at the moment with this new 'Relaxed grip, cocked wrist and unfurl/flick' approach that I was using yesterday. I'll give it a go tonight and see how it works. Keep us posted on how you get on with yours over the next few weeks. Do you play for a team and are youo going to get a chance to try this out in the next couple of weeks?

Yep - always have a look at Philpotts book if you're having problems and read through the 8 stages to refresh your memory on the theory.

I like both these two posts that are before mine as they both have got results through the use of back-spinning the ball during the delivery of the Leg-Break as described by Philpott. So many people have refuted this as nonesense, but here again are 2 blokes as living evidence that it works!!! (Just wish I could do it)! LOL.


Added later..........

I've just looked at the cloverdale clip, not realising that the footage was of Warne before, but looking at that and seeing the partial angle of the spin rather than the expected 90 degree that I'd have expected is interesting. As said above, a 90 degree rotation to the wicket would be less effective at speed as the forward motion would negate some of the sideways spin potential. A more lofted ball that was slower would probably be the better option if you're using the ball spinning at 90 degrees? I reckon I need to look at using the ball at a slightly less acute angle, but I reckon this is what may have happened yesterday, because the spin was good, but the bounce caused by the top-spin that was inadvertently being put on it mean that it was bouncing exceptionally well.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I am sure you have seen this. The first part explains swing, while the second part starts explaining spin. Had seen it months ago but lost it. I think it is a very good explanation. YouTube - (3/6) Science of Sport - Cricket . And continuued here, even though he says ut bounces with backspin. YouTube - (3/6) Science of Sport - Cricket Well actually it continues on part 4.

I seem to be the only leggie logging hours at work rather on the field, you lucky bu'\\\rs.


Sorry to hear of your dislocation, you will need to ice it regularly to reduce the swelling. They can take some time to heal. The good thing is you do not have a fracture or tendon/nerve/vessel involvement.

Yeah this is good but I had to laugh at Jenner flicking the ball from one hand to the other and barely making it spin! I'll post up some vids soon in conjunction with my new blogs demonstrating the flick exercises that Philpott recommend and the Flippers including the Mystery ball.

 

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

like you say the smaller leg break often carries better and just beats the bat putting doubt in the batmans mind where as the bigger leg break bowled too quickly can pop up and be pullable if you get it even a little short.

From my personal experience I have found that one of the things playing on a wrist spinners mind is pace and mostly lack of it. Listening to Warne talking about Swann in the ashes he said he was surprised that Swann was able to spin the ball so much at the pace he bowls which is in the high 50's 60mph area.

Warne who could spin big as you all know said that between 47 and 50mph was his idea pace for maximum spin or turn of the pitch anyway, but stressed that it's different for everyone.

I'm definitely guilty of trying to bowl too fast for fear of getting smacked around and sacrificing spin but as you probably all know there is a fine line between being a pie chucker and bowling flat flightless deliveries that don't trouble the batsman at all. That said I found yesterday that the big leg break that we talked about (bowled into the body) can produce really dramatic turn when bowled flat and with a bit more pace.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hope you get better too Gundalf, that was a horrendous injury you got there. Take care of your body if you want to keep bowling at our age ( macca's, dave's and mine, I mean)

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

my son and his mates have worn a cricket ball out in three days at school! I could not believe the state of the ball after they had finished with it.

He has taken two wickets with his flipper from two attempts, but i dont want him to bowl a flipper yet.

I got him to bowl his flipper in the nets yesterday and it is going ok considering how little time we spend on that particular ball.

He got me a few times with his topspinner yesterday. I played for the break and got done every time.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've just changed the way I train to a system where I bowl a 6 ball over like this -

1. The Biggun (ish)
2. The Mystery Ball (has off spin tendencies)
3. The Biggun
4. Small fast Leg Break
5. The Biggun
6. Wrong Un

Repeat ad infinitum so it keeps me on top of 4 different deliveries.