2014/2015 Money Shield

Top Contributors
_Blackhawk_ said:
Pre-seasons are a complete waste of time, effort and money. If anyone feels like a hit before round one, just rent a ball machine out for a couple of hours with a mate and you'll hit more balls in that time than you will in an entire pre-season fixture.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you're propsed "pre season" would have a great benefit on bowling, fielding and building team rapore.

Can't wait to get to round 1 having only faced the bowling machine, not fielded a ball, and not spoken to the majority of people at my club.

Great idea, can't think of any reasons why this shouldn't be the standard for every club in the world.
 
I partially agree. Most training sessions at local clubs are useless, hence why pre season is not necessary as such. However, quality training is very beneficial (facing quality bowling or batting, proper fielding drills) but how many clubs have that?
 
freddie90 said:
I partially agree. Most training sessions at local clubs are useless, hence why pre season is not necessary as such. However, quality training is very beneficial (facing quality bowling or batting, proper fielding drills) but how many clubs have that?
Click to expand...

Back in the old days, even in the DVCA, training was a lot more serious. These days its completely optional. I don't go to training any more as there is a lot of standing around. Very few people are there to really work on their games. And as for me, at my age, I'm not going to get any better. I'd rather just sit on the couch after work.
 
CricketBox said:
I'm sure you're propsed "pre season" would have a great benefit on bowling, fielding and building team rapore.

Can't wait to get to round 1 having only faced the bowling machine, not fielded a ball, and not spoken to the majority of people at my club.

Great idea, can't think of any reasons why this shouldn't be the standard for every club in the world.
Click to expand...

You only need a couple of indoor sessions for pre-season and that's primarily for the bowlers to get the first aches out of the way, then they should be good to go. You don't need months of it. I wouldn't mind just facing the ball machine for training, in fact, I'd prefer it as I'd get to face more deliveries of better quality in the short time you actually get to bat. I think clubs only do pre-seasons and stock standard training as everyone else does it, it's what everyone's always done and no one has the courage to change it because they're afraid of being wrong and besides, that's what's written in the text book. One of the most dangerous sayings in the world is; "We've always done it this way".

Now that might sound like an attack on training, but it's not really. As Freddie says, quality training is still very much worthwhile, but i'll concede that it is difficult, especially in larger clubs, to make sure everyone is always getting quality training.

Warwick, that's where I reckon the ball machine is a great tool. Most clubs need to work on their batting and the use of one or two of those at training gives clubs the ability to get more balls hit in the same amount of time. It doesn't matter how old you are, you can always work on your game if you're getting the practice to do it.
 
_Blackhawk_ said:
You only need a couple of indoor sessions for pre-season and that's primarily for the bowlers to get the first aches out of the way, then they should be good to go. You don't need months of it. I wouldn't mind just facing the ball machine for training, in fact, I'd prefer it as I'd get to face more deliveries of better quality in the short time you actually get to bat. I think clubs only do pre-seasons and stock standard training as everyone else does it, it's what everyone's always done and no one has the courage to change it because they're afraid of being wrong and besides, that's what's written in the text book. One of the most dangerous sayings in the world is; "We've always done it this way".

Now that might sound like an attack on training, but it's not really. As Freddie says, quality training is still very much worthwhile, but i'll concede that it is difficult, especially in larger clubs, to make sure everyone is always getting quality training.

Warwick, that's where I reckon the ball machine is a great tool. Most clubs need to work on their batting and the use of one or two of those at training gives clubs the ability to get more balls hit in the same amount of time. It doesn't matter how old you are, you can always work on your game if you're getting the practice to do it.
Click to expand...
Spot on Hawk. I front up every week craving a high standard of training and most times it ends up dragging out for 2 to 3 hours of boring fielding
 
I honestly can't believe the rubbish I'm reading. We must have a comp full of absolute guns if blokes think they don't need to train/do a preseason.

You get out of training what you put into it. If your sessions are crap, I dare say the effort you're puting in is crap. It doesn't matter who is bowling to you, or who you're bowling at, you can always work on different things.

If you're a batsmen facing a lower grade bowler who's not as quick as you're used to, work on your feet movement, timing, or a different stroke then you'd normally play. Problem is, most guys would try to smash them, be a hero and subsequently get nothing out of it.

Unless you're making hundreds or taking 5 fas and taking every catch you get, then I'd suggest you need to train harder. The whole suggestion that it only needs to be the top 15 players who train suggests that you're not in the top 15 players because of that terrible mentality.
 
Tongs said:
I honestly can't believe the rubbish I'm reading. We must have a comp full of absolute guns if blokes think they don't need to train/do a preseason.

You get out of training what you put into it. If your sessions are crap, I dare say the effort you're puting in is crap. It doesn't matter who is bowling to you, or who you're bowling at, you can always work on different things.

If you're a batsmen facing a lower grade bowler who's not as quick as you're used to, work on your feet movement, timing, or a different stroke then you'd normally play. Problem is, most guys would try to smash them, be a hero and subsequently get nothing out of it.

Unless you're making hundreds or taking 5 fas and taking every catch you get, then I'd suggest you need to train harder. The whole suggestion that it only needs to be the top 15 players who train suggests that you're not in the top 15 players because of that terrible mentality.
Click to expand...
That sounds like something a coach or potential coach would say, care to share anything tongs? Im hearing eltham have gone done the same path as Greensboro regarding the coaching position.
 
Tongs said:
I honestly can't believe the rubbish I'm reading. We must have a comp full of absolute guns if blokes think they don't need to train/do a preseason.

You get out of training what you put into it. If your sessions are crap, I dare say the effort you're puting in is crap. It doesn't matter who is bowling to you, or who you're bowling at, you can always work on different things.

If you're a batsmen facing a lower grade bowler who's not as quick as you're used to, work on your feet movement, timing, or a different stroke then you'd normally play. Problem is, most guys would try to smash them, be a hero and subsequently get nothing out of it.

Unless you're making hundreds or taking 5 fas and taking every catch you get, then I'd suggest you need to train harder. The whole suggestion that it only needs to be the top 15 players who train suggests that you're not in the top 15 players because of that terrible mentality.
Click to expand...

Finally someone talking some sense on here.
 
Tongs said:
I honestly can't believe the rubbish I'm reading. We must have a comp full of absolute guns if blokes think they don't need to train/do a preseason.

You get out of training what you put into it. If your sessions are crap, I dare say the effort you're puting in is crap. It doesn't matter who is bowling to you, or who you're bowling at, you can always work on different things.

If you're a batsmen facing a lower grade bowler who's not as quick as you're used to, work on your feet movement, timing, or a different stroke then you'd normally play. Problem is, most guys would try to smash them, be a hero and subsequently get nothing out of it.

Unless you're making hundreds or taking 5 fas and taking every catch you get, then I'd suggest you need to train harder. The whole suggestion that it only needs to be the top 15 players who train suggests that you're not in the top 15 players because of that terrible mentality.
Click to expand...

Ah, simplifying an argument to make it easier to attack. They call that the straw man argument and you should still work on your poor formation of arguments.

Anyways, that said I'll bite. Most of us aren't guns and that means we aren't going to be playing other guns. The aim for everyone, no matter their skill is to improve. I'm not saying don't train, but I am saying that training at a level below which you play on a Saturday is worthless. It's like training to run a mile by running 100 meters each day and no matter how many times you run 100 meters, it's pointless unless you run the mile at least once before game day. Good batting practice is absolutely reliant on the bowler you're facing as you can't tell me there is any value in it for the batsman if he's normally at BS and he has G grade guys bowling at him. Bowling is different, you can practice bowling without any batsman at all. All that "work on your feet" or "timing" is just junk that coaches say to justify the crappy training they know they are giving you.

Training harder, ah yes I've heard that before too. You shouldn't be training harder, you should be training better. The 'training harder' statement generally leads to you doing catches for 2 hours which as Woodland points out, becomes boring very quickly when that time could be far better spent. Activity is a very poor substitute for progress.

I also think that rationalising training, cutting away the fat and better using the time we have will help the game too. I dare say there are a lot of players that find it difficult to make training twice a week because of work, family, the wife etc. Also consider those with a young family and being out of the house twice during the weeknights plus Saturday being pretty much a write off may frustrate the missus a bit. Just think, if you could do the same amount of training in one night as you do two, that will make things easier for many blokes and may help retain players who are time poor.
 
_Blackhawk_ said:
Ah, simplifying an argument to make it easier to attack. They call that the straw man argument and you should still work on your poor formation of arguments.

Anyways, that said I'll bite. Most of us aren't guns and that means we aren't going to be playing other guns. The aim for everyone, no matter their skill is to improve. I'm not saying don't train, but I am saying that training at a level below which you play on a Saturday is worthless. It's like training to run a mile by running 100 meters each day and no matter how many times you run 100 meters, it's pointless unless you run the mile at least once before game day. Good batting practice is absolutely reliant on the bowler you're facing as you can't tell me there is any value in it for the batsman if he's normally at BS and he has G grade guys bowling at him. Bowling is different, you can practice bowling without any batsman at all. All that "work on your feet" or "timing" is just junk that coaches say to justify the crappy training they know they are giving you.

Training harder, ah yes I've heard that before too. You shouldn't be training harder, you should be training better. The 'training harder' statement generally leads to you doing catches for 2 hours which as Woodland points out, becomes boring very quickly when that time could be far better spent. Activity is a very poor substitute for progress.

I also think that rationalising training, cutting away the fat and better using the time we have will help the game too. I dare say there are a lot of players that find it difficult to make training twice a week because of work, family, the wife etc. Also consider those with a young family and being out of the house twice during the weeknights plus Saturday being pretty much a write off may frustrate the missus a bit. Just think, if you could do the same amount of training in one night as you do two, that will make things easier for many blokes and may help retain players who are time poor.
Click to expand...
I like the cut of this man's jib
 
Tongs in all seriousness I really look forward to training most weeks. I enjoy pre season and despite what I said before I love fielding. It just gets mundane and as Blaxkhawk said I think people are scared to try something different in terms of the structure of training.
Coaching a 'club' at park cricket level is the worst job in the world. Blokes lack motivation, talent, time and skill sets to make training worthwhile in most cases.

I can already see your reply now 'its up to the coach to make it enjoyable and worthwhile rah rah rah' but its not that easy my friend
 
Woodland said:
Tongs in all seriousness I really look forward to training most weeks. I enjoy pre season and despite what I said before I love fielding. It just gets mundane and as Blaxkhawk said I think people are scared to try something different in terms of the structure of training.
Coaching a 'club' at park cricket level is the worst job in the world. Blokes lack motivation, talent, time and skill sets to make training worthwhile in most cases.

I can already see your reply now 'its up to the coach to make it enjoyable and worthwhile rah rah rah' but its not that easy my friend
Click to expand...


See, you just 100% proved me right. The problem at local level is too many blokes blame the coach for the way training is, when in fact he's working with blokes with shocking team mentality, are lazy, or just don't care about it enough. They're only in it for themselves. Training is not made worthwhile by what the coach does, it's what you do.

Ask yourself, on those mundane nights, what have you done to change either your experience or the way things are going? How many times have you suggested or researched new activities and brought them to the coach and said you'd like to run a drill. That's how good clubs run.

Regardless of what drill you are doing, you'll only ever get out of it what you put in. If blokes see you half arsing things all the time, chances are they'll do the same. Then you've got a great recipe for a poor session.

Blackhawk I like having banter with you, but I genuinely stopped reading your dribble half way. I literally could feel myself getting dumber.
 
Tongs said:
See, you just 100% proved me right. The problem at local level is too many blokes blame the coach for the way training is, when in fact he's working with blokes with shocking team mentality, are lazy, or just don't care about it enough. They're only in it for themselves. Training is not made worthwhile by what the coach does, it's what you do.

Ask yourself, on those mundane nights, what have you done to change either your experience or the way things are going? How many times have you suggested or researched new activities and brought them to the coach and said you'd like to run a drill. That's how good clubs run.

Regardless of what drill you are doing, you'll only ever get out of it what you put in. If blokes see you half arsing things all the time, chances are they'll do the same. Then you've got a great recipe for a poor session.

Blackhawk I like having banter with you, but I genuinely stopped reading your dribble half way. I literally could feel myself getting dumber.
Click to expand...
Its hard to organise drills when you have guys of differing ability. When doing a fielding drill its great fun watching Jimmy from Z grade ************** up their throw or catch every turn which then stops the drill and energy levels drop instantly
 
Unfortunately the reality is that cricket is a sport where people don't really want to work hard and that's why we are playing DVCA not premier cricket.
Majority of clubs training is crap and consists of a hit for a couple of minutes, bowling (well or poorly) and taking a few catches.

I agree with Tongs that if we want better training why not take it upon yourselves to suggest something to the coach like a beneficial fielding drill. The reality is though that most are happy with bowling pies and the team taking 10 catches in a row before heading inside for a drink.
 
I have never heard so much dribble in all my life! It`s the way of today`s society to blame someone else if things aren`t going well , what happened o what`s meant to be is up to me. I suggest you guy`s get down to a Plenty cc training session and see how a training session should be run. That`s why they are what they are, one of the most successful in the modern DVCA history. Their sessions are player driven and not just left up to the coach to run. I would suggest that the people on here that say training is over rated would be from one of the clubs that just make up the numbers in the DVCA and maybe a couple of you lay for a club that lost their Captain/ Coach due to this attitude. And he was a ex Plenty cc player!
 
leftisbest said:
I have never heard so much dribble in all my life! It`s the way of today`s society to blame someone else if things aren`t going well , what happened o what`s meant to be is up to me. I suggest you guy`s get down to a Plenty cc training session and see how a training session should be run. That`s why they are what they are, one of the most successful in the modern DVCA history. Their sessions are player driven and not just left up to the coach to run. I would suggest that the people on here that say training is over rated would be from one of the clubs that just make up the numbers in the DVCA and maybe a couple of you lay for a club that lost their Captain/ Coach due to this attitude. And he was a ex Plenty cc player!
Click to expand...
Didn't plenty get Willo to stand down as coach because training was no good? Thats the ultimate 'player driven' act
 
I actually agree that if you can see a way to improve training or make a difference, say something, but don't be surprised if you get little or no response.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top