Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

[eddiesmith]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Siddle ahead of Hilfenhaus on a horses for courses selection

Hilfy did well at the GABBA and he always has, averages 20 but the next 2 tests are at the MCG and SCG where he averages 64 and 82 respectively

Obviously they will then have a tough choice to make potentially for the 3rd test at Bellerive

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Siddle ahead of Hilfenhaus on a horses for courses selection

Hilfy did well at the GABBA and he always has, averages 20 but the next 2 tests are at the MCG and SCG where he averages 64 and 82 respectively

Obviously they will then have a tough choice to make potentially for the 3rd test at Bellerive

The strange thing is that Siddle is averaging higher than Johnson is currently...

And Hilfenhaus would be a struggle to get over 30 in bad times.

That spot is for the retainer, the line and length bowler. Siddle isn't that.

One thing I will say is that I don't think Hilfenhaus and Bollinger together really fits.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

The strange thing is that Siddle is averaging higher than Johnson is currently...

And Hilfenhaus would be a struggle to get over 30 in bad times.

That spot is for the retainer, the line and length bowler. Siddle isn't that.

One thing I will say is that I don't think Hilfenhaus and Bollinger together really fits.

Hilfenhaus isnt either at the MCG, its too flat for him, Siddle did well last year in the Boxing day test whilst every time Hilfy comes to Melbourne he gets smashed

Oh and have you noticed that Siddles economy rate this year is lower than Hilfys?

 

[Sober Symonds]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Thank-you for your kind words earlier Boris, but I'm sorry to disagree with you again (what else would you expect?

The batting does have something wrong with it, which we have discussed often, but I'm sure they'll keep it as it is because there's no easy scapegoat here.

My thoughts on the bowling are that Bollinger has done enough to be retained. Hilfenhaus also did prior to being injured. Siddle, if anyone has forgotten, will also give you all he has got for as long as you bowl him, and tries his guts out every ball. He is also a down-to-earth country bloke. He doesn't kick the pitch with petulance though, despite the odd touch of poor fortune he encounters.

However, he is not having the effect he needs to in order to hold his spot, so I'm willing to concede he should be left out. That spot is not "his". Nor is it Brett Lee's or Stuart Clark's. It belongs to the team, and is open to anyone in the country who is good enough to come along and take it from him.

If the Hilf/Bollinger thing doesn't work because the ball isn't swinging or whatever, it can be reassessed. Mind you, these blokes are fortunate - Pakistan's batting is ripe for the picking.

Just remember, hard selection decisions were made on the way to Australia becoming the force they were. Don't be afraid of the tough call.

 

[breeno]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Thank-you for your kind words earlier Boris, but I'm sorry to disagree with you again (what else would you expect?

The batting does have something wrong with it, which we have discussed often, but I'm sure they'll keep it as it is because there's no easy scapegoat here.

My thoughts on the bowling are that Bollinger has done enough to be retained. Hilfenhaus also did prior to being injured. Siddle, if anyone has forgotten, will also give you all he has got for as long as you bowl him, and tries his guts out every ball. He is also a down-to-earth country bloke. He doesn't kick the pitch with petulance though, despite the odd touch of poor fortune he encounters.

However, he is not having the effect he needs to in order to hold his spot, so I'm willing to concede he should be left out. That spot is not "his". Nor is it Brett Lee's or Stuart Clark's. It belongs to the team, and is open to anyone in the country who is good enough to come along and take it from him.

If the Hilf/Bollinger thing doesn't work because the ball isn't swinging or whatever, it can be reassessed. Mind you, these blokes are fortunate - Pakistan's batting is ripe for the picking.

Just remember, hard selection decisions were made on the way to Australia becoming the force they were. Don't be afraid of the tough call.

On regards to Siddle not kicking the pitch, he just tends to scream instead.

The reason I was so impressed with Doug the rug is that I've never seen anyone in my short lifetime sprint in as hard and fast as that in my life. He also tends to swing it a bit more than Siddle.

I agree, Siddle should be left out if both Hilf and Siddle are fit, but that can always change.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Siddle's economy rate is so good because he bowls consistently way outside off stump so its an easy leave for 4 balls an over.

Sober Symonds: I know players don't have a right to have a spot. But I find it bad for the team if they don't have a player that is a regular for that spot. I think a player, once they have secured their spot well enough, should be able to come back to their spot even for just a couple of games to show if they still have what they had to get there in the first place. Australian selectors have quite often had this policy in the past, with some exceptions of course, but more often than not it has been the way.

I would love to see Siddle out of the team, but not after he has done well enough to retain his spot for what would have been the next Test had he been injured. Ponting now has plans formulated to suit him, and his teammates are used to working with him on a permanent basis. Swapping and changing a team has always been a desperate move in my mind.

I also struggle to think that any of these three will be our next great bowlers in many years time. Every era has them, and these three seem a long way off the mark IMO. But I will happily be proved wrong.

And for the record, I would put Siddle in the Watson category of personality and likeability.

 

[Sober Symonds]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

But you like Golden Shane, don't you?

Fair enough, I'll allow you your foes & favourites. I think you know mine. I'm just a bit dirty at the moment that there are too many I find hard to take. Why can't we have more pleasant, calm chaps like Marcus North who smiles not just when he has achieved personal glory, and isn't preoccupied with his profile or image?

On regards to Siddle not kicking the pitch, he just tends to scream instead.

The reason I was so impressed with Doug the rug is that I've never seen anyone in my short lifetime sprint in as hard and fast as that in my life. He also tends to swing it a bit more than Siddle.

I agree, Siddle should be left out if both Hilf and Siddle are fit, but that can always change.

Screaming? I've not known the umpires or the game's image to have ever have a problem with that. But again, I'll accept your personal likings.

Mate, Andre Nel runs in fast and "wears his heart on his sleeve", but he is a tool. No arguing Doug gives his all, but I'm not going to argue his case throughout his career purely based on the fact that he sprints in his run-up.

Agreed, he swings it more so that's got to count for something. Mind you, conditions don't always smile upon those types of bowlers so we have to be prepared for what else he can do just in case. Look at Jimmy Anderson - he can be two different bowlers depending on the conditions.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

I like Shane Watson as a player. If I met him in real life I would punch him in the face. The same with Siddle really.

Siddle stirs up the crowd on purpose. Other countries hate him. Not because he is a good player, but because he comes off as a prick. The Barmy Army were about to launch a missile at him in the Ashes. This is the one thing I hate about Watson as well, makes Australia look like a truely arrogant Test team when they are not.

Whereas when you look at the Windies for example, led by Captain Cool, you just have to love them.

Unfortunately I can't drop people because of their attitude though, unless they get to a point of disrepute like Watson is close to.

 

[Sober Symonds]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

I think Watson got off pretty lightly for that show. Considering the fuss over the dust-up of the previous day, it really was time for these blokes to knuckle down and play cricket. In every way, it was an awful display and I hope he bears it in mind throughout the rest of him time in the team.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Would expect anything else from Watson.

He follows the gamesmanship model, not the sportsmanship one. If he's to be in the side you have to put up with him making the side look stupid. I think that's why he moved to NSW because he heard Symonds might be making a return and doesn't want to get beaten up for being an arrogant prick.

 

[Sober Symonds]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Ha! That I'd like to see. I can't see Roy in that side at the moment even if he didn't stuff up. It would drive him nuts I reckon. It's probably half the reason why he did wander off track, it just didn't feel right anymore.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

If Roy had stuck to his game I think he would still be in the side. He wasn't in any bad form period when the injuries and such occured and was scoring 50s regularly and getting wickets. He had a good Boxing Day Test if I remember so, I think that was his last game.

Him not being there sparked that search for another batsman and put the balance off in the team IMO. The North/MacDonald/Watson dilema arose and I think it's part of the reason that Hughes was put in, perhaps in the wrong conditions, and was also dropped so suddenly.

Symonds would have been a very handy bowler to have, and would have also helped the spinner situation with his medium pace and sometimes offies helping keep things steady for a spinner to work their magic. Might have seen Krezja make a bigger appearance had he the leeway to go a little more over the top.

Symonds had a huge impact on the team from where I sit. Things would have been so much easier had he stayed, because even if he ended up getting dropped, at least he would have let people settle in one at a time and not spark some outlandish selection choices.

 

[breeno]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Screaming? I've not known the umpires or the game's image to have ever have a problem with that. But again, I'll accept your personal likings.

Mate, Andre Nel runs in fast and "wears his heart on his sleeve", but he is a tool. No arguing Doug gives his all, but I'm not going to argue his case throughout his career purely based on the fact that he sprints in his run-up.

Agreed, he swings it more so that's got to count for something. Mind you, conditions don't always smile upon those types of bowlers so we have to be prepared for what else he can do just in case. Look at Jimmy Anderson - he can be two different bowlers depending on the conditions.

Yeah, I'm personally not a fan of blokes who scream when an edge goes through slips or gully.

But Dougy can bowl. It's not like he's a bloke who tries hard and is no good, he pushes himself that little bit further which is what I like.

I'd have him around about equal with Siddle in the line and length category, and he has shown before when it's not swinging he's definitely a good on the spot bowler.

As I said, personal preference of Doug over Siddle, but I like both.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

I don't think Siddle is a line and length bowler. Everyone says he is but I find he is trying to bowl too fast quite often. He is a fast bowler on his day, able to get to 145-148 area, most of the time sits around 140, and he seems to like the idea of it. He then starts to bowl a fraction short or full and not as accurate as you would expect. He gets impatient and doesn't sit on the same length, starts bowling short or full. Then he has humoungous spells of bowling outside off stump to be left every second ball. Then an hour later has a great spell, gets a couple of wickets, only to let slip in the next spell and goes for 6 an over and brings his figures into a more normal range instead of excessively good, or sometimes ruins them completely. This is like a line and length bowler trying to be a strike bowler. He also loses his cool quickly when someone has it over him. In the second Test against the Windies Chanderpaul was toying with him and doing his little flicks and nudges, often running a ball along the ground through slips. They looked completely intentional to me because he was watching them onto a tilted bat. Siddle lost his cool and started bowling worse and worse. Happened in England as well. Didn't see the South African series but I'm sure he did at some point.

Correct these minor flaws and I'd have him anyday.

 

[T.A Offspinner]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

ok then, to put not really an end but more of a ceasefire to this issue.


Who is in your boxing day test side?

mine goes:

1. katich
2. watson
3. ponting (if he's not fit then hughes)
4. clarke
5. hussey (he's proved himself enough for me)
6. north
7. haddin
8. johnson
9. hauritz (although i was heavily considering going no full time spinners and stick with my two part timers in clarke and north)
10. bollinger
11. hilfenhaus


I think that's a good enough team to do one over on the pak's at the mcg...if it's not then we got a problem...

 

[Caesar]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

The squad has already been named. It's the same as the last Test except Siddle in and Geeves out, and Hughes as cover for Ponting. Hilfenhaus is still injured. It should be the same XI as last time except McKay to 12th and Siddle into the team.

If Ponting is out I'd rather see Clarke go to 3, Watson go to the lower middle order and Hughes back to partnering with Katich at the top.

 

[T.A Offspinner]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

i know the squad is named but i mean if you could pick and everyone is healthy...

and hughes at the top would go alright, I personally think watson isn't an opener, his place is in the middle order IMO. not trying to start anything with any watson lovers but that's just how i see it...

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

i know the squad is named but i mean if you could pick and everyone is healthy...

and hughes at the top would go alright, I personally think watson isn't an opener, his place is in the middle order IMO. not trying to start anything with any watson lovers but that's just how i see it...

Watson lovers?

I'm pretty sure they'd be sentenced to death by someone on here.

 

[Sober Symonds]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

Not at all Boris - I'd be happy to hear from any "Friends of Shane", so I can perhaps better understand the person.

Could this be one?:
"Watson is clearly battling with unresolved mental issues. It looks like a case of esteem abuse and/or a peroccupation with rejection which can boil over when adrenalin rises to maximum. It seems like getting a rare success over a player far superior to him was too much for Watson to handle. I don’t like the look of him as a long-term prospect for Australia. Already shown to be weak in terms of match fitness and a choker when approaching a century, the damaged psyche he carries with him on the field is by no means an asset for the Aussies. Cut him loose quick so he can receive therapy and maybe turn his life around."
- from cricket with balls Shane Watson forgets he may have to bowl to Gayle again - join sehwagology

 

[Thumbs up]

Re: Australian Test XI - Selection Thread

I don't think Siddle is a line and length bowler. Everyone says he is but I find he is trying to bowl too fast quite often. He is a fast bowler on his day, able to get to 145-148 area, most of the time sits around 140, and he seems to like the idea of it. He then starts to bowl a fraction short or full and not as accurate as you would expect. He gets impatient and doesn't sit on the same length, starts bowling short or full.

All opinion and fair enough at that.

Then he has humoungous spells of bowling outside off stump to be left every second ball. Then an hour later has a great spell, gets a couple of wickets, only to let slip in the next spell and goes for 6 an over and brings his figures into a more normal range instead of excessively good, or sometimes ruins them completely. This is like a line and length bowler trying to be a strike bowler.

This will be a little hard to support... factually.

He also loses his cool quickly when someone has it over him. In the second Test against the Windies Chanderpaul was toying with him and doing his little flicks and nudges, often running a ball along the ground through slips. They looked completely intentional to me because he was watching them onto a tilted bat. Siddle lost his cool and started bowling worse and worse. Happened in England as well.

Not sure I agree with you but OK.

Didn't see the South African series but I'm sure he did at some point.

What? That's like me saying I didn't see the last 2 years of cricket but I am assuming Hussey is still smashing it.

Correct these minor flaws and I'd have him anyday.

It is hard to understand how you have so much against him and have made so many broad sweeping generalisations on him, his attitude, his performance... based on what seems more and more like a preconceived perception/attitude with zero flexibility.

I could be wrong here Boris but I was sure I had read comments from you on his performance in South Africa, only to find out now that you didn't see it.