B & C Grade 2013/2014

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Serious question: Would you be in here complaining if the 4-1 record went in your favor?

They're not flawless, and I've copped a shocker myself this year, but I'm playing local cricket with guys umpiring the best they can. So we move on. They aren't cheating, or anything like that, they just believe it to be out (or not out). Just like you do.
 
Tongs said:
Serious question: Would you be in here complaining if the 4-1 record went in your favor?

They're not flawless, and I've copped a shocker myself this year, but I'm playing local cricket with guys umpiring the best they can. So we move on. They aren't cheating, or anything like that, they just believe it to be out (or not out). Just like you do.
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I'm having a bit each way here.

Umpiring is clearly getting worse, almost to the point were it's a farce on some days.

But, I'm very thankful for the guys who get out there on a Saturday and have a crack at it, this comp would not function without them. There are a handful that continually get higher grade games when they clearly cannot umpire to standard and they are the ones that inspire these sorts of feelings.

It's a fair commitment these days to give up a whole Saturday to umpire, less and less blokes want to do it to play so you can only imagine the dwindling umpire numbers too.

I'd love to see the comp and the clubs make a commitment to developing better umpires to ensure numbers and quality and would gladly back financial support for training for our umpires from a professional source.

Give them an extra $50 on a Saturday so the job becomes a bit more attractive and get the clubs and the comp or even a major sponsor for the umpires themselves to contribute to an umpiring workshop from a reputable source each year that the DVCA umpires must go though.

It's not an easy job, and I know not everyone will agree with forking out more for them but if we want the best then we have to support it as clubs, and as a comp.

Also, some of the better relationships I've formed in this comp are with umpires, even if they do stitch me up!

No doubt I'll be one when I'm older, so may as well start the ball rolling for better pay and training now................
 
I can tell u blokes, im really enjoying the umpiring. Happy to serve apprenticeship in lower grades (than i played) and see the young blokes coming thru and a few not so young blokes on their way out. Money is a positive but not the be all. I get a reasonable level of respect, mainly from past opponents and the fact im now wearing the penguin suit. But do agree with previous comments. A little more training would be good and no doubt if the financial reward was greater u would see an influx of new guys. When i played, 2 main beefs were inconsistency and lack of rapport with players - something im very concious of. And tongs, u havent had a bad decision yet till u cop me turning up at ur game my friend! be quicker to just kick em over
 
Tongs - Yes, I would and before you say I must have copped one of those 4 shockers, I haven't. I'm just tired of seeing really bad decisions. I'm not talking close appeals here, I'm talking when you can clearly hear that the ball has flicked the pad or when a bloke gets a huge inside edge or hit above the knee roll playing forward. I understand they do the best they can and I don't think any umpire is cheating.

Thinking about it the last day, I don't reckon extra money or training will help that much as I think the real issue is the age of the umpiring group. Now, we're all probably going to get old and it's a fact that eyesight, hearing, endurance and attention span will probably not be as good as someone half their age. Given it's really the nicks and LBW decisions cause the most problems and since you're just not going to get a younger umpiring group as we're all playing the damn game, I think umpires should start ignoring the front foot no-balls, just stop looking for them. I've only seen a hand full called anyway and at this level, 2cm over the line isn't going to mean much and no one is going to know. Keep your eyes up and forward, that would put your attention where it needs to be and I think would improve decision making.
 
Could you say anything more stupid? You're complaining that the umpires arent getting the rules right, so therefore they should ignore one rule to help the other? Then we'll have people bowling a foot over the line. That's one of the silliest solutions ever.

If you've ever not walked when you nicked one, or when you thought you were plumb, or appealed when it wasn't out, then stop whining about the umpires apparently getting them wrong. You can't have your cake and eat it to.

Money won't attract good umpires, it will just attract more people. It's only if you're getting in the right people, and teaching them on an ongoing basis will the standard increase.

I've heard It's not helped by the fact that the umpires reports don't match. Ie team A, gets the rub of the green, so they put in a good report. Team B doesn't get decisions go their way, and the umpire gets a bad report. Who is right???

Either way, umpires get graded into games that is up to their standard. That's why some are stuck in C grade.
 
It's not a perfect solution, but being rational about it, what is more important; enforcing the no-ball rule for maybe 1 or two a game (most of the time not even) that if they weren't called no one would be the wiser, or paying closer attention to dismissals which many of us identify as a problem with the umpiring? I'm not saying umpires actually announce that fact, but you know, if the sight and hearing are going a bit, pay closer attention to the batsmen and ball. As you've said, throwing more money at it won't attract better, it will just attract more and no amount of training will help failing senses. The right people as you put it, are younger people, but those younger guys are playing cricket. Along those lines, how about trying to recruit women umpires? Women's cricket isn't as big, but I'm sure there are a lot of women out there who don't play, yet know the rules are are not 60+ and may be attracted by a little extra dosh in the household budget each week.

I'm trying to put out solutions that are more than just "more training and money" as those are easy to say, sound great but seldom work in the real world. Call my ideas stupid if you want, but if your only counter point is to call it that and tell me to stop whining, well as I always say, only those that have run out of rational argument sling mud.
 
I know you're trying to better that game, but my god. Your argument to change a vital component to cricket is one of the stupidest solutions that could ever be suggested. Then a bowler could bowl from half way down the pitch. As the no ball rule will no longer be policed.

Also, to say the worst umpires are the older ones is very ignorant. Someone's age, is not relevant. It's their ability to perform not how old they are.

I said to you that if you're happy to receive poor decisions in your favor, then you have no grounds to whine when it doesn't go your way. If you want to make a stance, next time you're out and the umpire gives you not out, walk!
 
Probably have to side with tongs on this one, unfortunately. Cant mess with one rule just to better another. Look i was a bit of a whinger when i was playing. I used to think how the hell could that umpire not hear that nick or see the ball pitched outside leg. I never abused an umpire but i did question their decisions. Just competitive nature i guess. But now im standing behind the stumps i recognize the difficulties and subtleteys of our game. Its not hard to look at front line then look up. I do agree unless obvious no ball look up quicker. I tell bowlers they are very close to no balling,and i find they then go well back. Communication. Yes the older guys do slowly lose their senses. Didn't ur grandparents? They simply need to be graded appropriately. Very rarely will any comp recruit any umps under 30. As bh said they are all playing. Not being a bighead but to put it simplest, u need blokes like me fresh out of the game who have played highest level (include Paul holzer, robbo and other ex players) to improve umpiring standards. Thats not to bag the other blokes who have been umpiring barclay or money for a while. They are all pretty good and respected. But to get a better standard overall need more ex players. Only more coin will get them umpiring instead of family weekends, the punt or just getting fat!
 
Really Tongs, you're just arguing off topic, putting words in my mouth, missing the point and resorting to sensationalism to try and win a discussion and there is no point in trying to continue a rational discussion with you.
 
How am I off topic? You said to scrap the no ball rule to help umpires focus on other decisions. That's just stupid.

You suggested that poor decisions being made was due to the umpires being old and losing some sight or senses. Again, stupid.

I then suggested that if You want an "ideal world", walk when you know you're out. Never bowl a no ball, and if everyone did that, we wouldn't need umpires.

Whilst I like you trying to come up with ideas, I'm am almost certain you're not going to get any support with your suggestions.
 
charlie sheen said:
Probably have to side with tongs on this one, unfortunately. Cant mess with one rule just to better another. Look i was a bit of a whinger when i was playing. I used to think how the hell could that umpire not hear that nick or see the ball pitched outside leg. I never abused an umpire but i did question their decisions. Just competitive nature i guess. But now im standing behind the stumps i recognize the difficulties and subtleteys of our game. Its not hard to look at front line then look up. I do agree unless obvious no ball look up quicker. I tell bowlers they are very close to no balling,and i find they then go well back. Communication. Yes the older guys do slowly lose their senses. Didn't ur grandparents? They simply need to be graded appropriately. Very rarely will any comp recruit any umps under 30. As bh said they are all playing. Not being a bighead but to put it simplest, u need blokes like me fresh out of the game who have played highest level (include Paul holzer, robbo and other ex players) to improve umpiring standards. Thats not to bag the other blokes who have been umpiring barclay or money for a while. They are all pretty good and respected. But to get a better standard overall need more ex players. Only more coin will get them umpiring instead of family weekends, the punt or just getting fat!
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Yeh, more ex players are a good thing, but how much money do you want to start slugging clubs and players to get that? Cricket is already a poor cousin to footy and rising costs won't help that. Just think, we pay 10 bucks a game, if your at home there is another 10 - 15 bucks for arvo tea, add a couple of gatoraide plus a couple of beers after the day, 20 bucks, petrol to the game 5-10 bucks??, how much more can a koala bear for people with 2 kids, mortgage, wife, car etc etc?
 
Tongs said:
How am I off topic? You said to scrap the no ball rule to help umpires focus on other decisions. That's just stupid.

You suggested that poor decisions being made was due to the umpires being old and losing some sight or senses. Again, stupid.

I then suggested that if You want an "ideal world", walk when you know you're out. Never bowl a no ball, and if everyone did that, we wouldn't need umpires.

Whilst I like you trying to come up with ideas, I'm am almost certain you're not going to get any support with your suggestions.
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Once more; I didn't say take it out of the rule book, I said ignore it at times. Not every umpire would need to. What I do is irrelevant as I'm talking about umpiring standards not my ethics, which you wouldn't have a clue about as you'd not know me if you tripped over me.

You are right, I am suggesting that age is a contributing factor to poor decisions without any malice against anyone, otherwise what is it? There has to be an explanation for so many errors and I'm sure umpires do their best and are not corrupt, so what is it? Perhaps it is training, but how much training do you need to say a guy snicked it or a ball pitched in line and hit in line etc.

Weather I get any support or not doesn't worry me, I'm quite happy to be one against the world.
 
In answer to the question of money, dont know. I am surprised tho that barclay umps get same coin as e grade umps. U wouldnt find any e grade players getting paid! The $130 a week is pretty gd already but u always need a lure to get more umps of quality. If it were up to me id say barclay guys get 160, money 140, bgrade 120 then 100 every other. That gives incentive to get better and recruit better umpires, eg ex players. Footy umps in local comps get more for doing seniors than u19's. and for what its worth bh keep putting ur opinion out there. I always thought umpiring standards werent great and alot of poor decisions were being made. Ive mellowed a bit now but we can all improve. Tongs has an itchy trigger finger if someone stirs him up. He wouldnt be a great umpire, lol!
 
_Blackhawk_ said:
Once more; I didn't say take it out of the rule book, I said ignore it at times. Not every umpire would need to. What I do is irrelevant as I'm talking about umpiring standards not my ethics, which you wouldn't have a clue about as you'd not know me if you tripped over me.

You are right, I am suggesting that age is a contributing factor to poor decisions without any malice against anyone, otherwise what is it? There has to be an explanation for so many errors and I'm sure umpires do their best and are not corrupt, so what is it? Perhaps it is training, but how much training do you need to say a guy snicked it or a ball pitched in line and hit in line etc.

Weather I get any support or not doesn't worry me, I'm quite happy to be one against the world.
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So let me get my head around your suggestion:

The no ball rule shall remain in place, but only some umpires will abide by it, and some can ignore it at times that they see fit?

I look forward to your club suggesting that at the AGM next year as a new rule.
As for the age comment. Again, blaming it on older guys is nothing short of ignorant. As for me not knowing you if i tripped over you. I would suggest that you being a bigger boy, i would probably run into you rather than trip over you.
 
Pretty much, but it doesn't have to be made a rule, just if you're an umpire and you have made a few bad ones or you know your eyesight is not the greatest, just stop looking at the front line and concentrate on the batsman and ball. No one is going to write in an umpires report "umpire missed 2 no ball calls" because no one is going to know (because no one is actually watching) the bloke has overstepped by a centimeter, but make a couple of erroneous decisions and you're going to get it in the umpires report, especially if it ends up costing a side the game.

No matter, I am still left with the question; why are there so many wrong decisions being made?

A good idea to stagger the payments Charlie Sheen. It's never made much sense to me to grade umpires, but still pay them the same weather it's BS or E grade. It's like a big FU to lower grade players as they still have to pay the same, but end up with lesser quality officials. There is no incentive to be better, or pay closer attention or even be fitter so you can make it through a whole day at 35C and concentrate.
 
No point bagging the umpires mate. Take it from an old hack who has been round. But to answer ur question why dont u give it a go for a season? Aint,as easy as it seems. Yes, mainly lbw or ct behind are the contentious decisions but ive learnt 4or 5 new laws/rules this year that i didnt know playing for 25. As for no balls, would u like ur mate to come up to u after stumps and tell u the lbw u copped was a massive noey only the ump wasnt looking? And ur team lost by 1 run!! U be dirtier than u are now about a few dodgy's..
 
I seriously can't believe what I am reading. YOu're not happy with umpires apparently getting decisions wrong, and to stop that from happening, you're asking them (but only some of them) to cheat by not look at the crease and possibly allow bowlers to break other rules and unfairly get batsmen out.

Do you honestly not see the stupidity in what you're saying?


The issue with the $$$ is that you can basically kiss goodbye all the umpires in the lower grades who are not yet up to A grade level (Snowy). Would you do the exact same job at your employmnet as someone else, but get 65% of their pay?
 
No umpire is ever going to get 100% of decisions right 100% of the time. At any level, anywhere.

Like players, some will be better than others and will umpire higher grades and you can't help getting the lesser skilled umpires in lower grades. It's all part of the level of cricket we play.

The only thing you can hope for is that the umps are consistent, if they give howlers to both sides then so be it, stiff ****, move on. If they give them or don't give them, so long as they're consistent across both innings you can't really complain.

It's only when one side gets 5 LBW's and another gets none given (for example) because the ump doesn't like a bloke/club that you can really kick up a stink. And there are avenues of appeal for that with the reports, etc. so that shouldn't go unpunished (if that's the right word) if captains/clubs go about it the right way.

I'm with Tongs - Actually can't believe how stupid that whole 'don't call no balls' thing is. Seriously?
 
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