Dvca, Nmca And Hdca To Merge

[Ex Prez]

I thought it was cheap shot to accuse mark of "leaving the dvca in the lurch", others can judge if i was out of line, i obviously don't think i was. Both executives are running below strength with the juniors at a minimum operating level. Not having a president is not ideal, but obviously manageable. Not having the required numbers to operate respective executives is the resposibility of the clubs, not any one individual.........

How about a thought from left field...?
Senior and junior exec require minimum 20 people to fill all positions. More if you throw in the umpires committee. There are 25 clubs.

How about it is every club's responsibility to nominate one person each for DVCA executive committee for next year's AGM. (Positions covering from President, VP, Admin to treasurer, to committee, junior committee, umpires etc..)
Failure to do so - fine $500.
Current executive/committee - who all come from clubs previously - can nominate that club as the club being represented. (ie Joe Fleming - Riverside, Kevin Marshall - Mernda etc...)

Nomination forms can go out to clubs prior to end of current season for positions available.
Pre AGM can then also determine who is running for each position. Nominations can be called for from applicants for positions of president etc..
If there are too many bodies for the places available then you have a regular ballot at the AGM as with any other AGM. Clubs might not end up with a representative but at least must nominate one.
Obviously these thoughts need to be tweaked a little but just a starting point for conversation. ie like if 2 people from one club wish to nominate for positions...etc...
Continue this process every year to ensure all positions are filled.

OR

Either that or we employ a full time PAID administration body to run the comp. That was the plan with the NCL.
Wage say $50K+ for the top job and maybe smaller sums for assistants like fixturing, umpires etc... - cost to each club say $3000 per season. (we already pay $1500 or similar)
This person's role would be to oversee and run the whole comp, website , mycricket, rules, tribunal, umpires etc... smaller DVCA snr ,jnr & umpires committees still to report to this manager. Position possibly needs to be employed by or overseen by Cric Vic.

????????????????????

 

[five80]

At the risk of sounding like a cretin, how does merging comps increase participation?

 

[turbo]

How about a thought from left field...?
Senior and junior exec require minimum 20 people to fill all positions. More if you throw in the umpires committee. There are 25 clubs.

How about it is every club's responsibility to nominate one person each for DVCA executive committee for next year's AGM. (Positions covering from President, VP, Admin to treasurer, to committee, junior committee, umpires etc..)
Failure to do so - fine $500.
Current executive/committee - who all come from clubs previously - can nominate that club as the club being represented. (ie Joe Fleming - Riverside, Kevin Marshall - Mernda etc...)

Nomination forms can go out to clubs prior to end of current season for positions available.
Pre AGM can then also determine who is running for each position. Nominations can be called for from applicants for positions of president etc..
If there are too many bodies for the places available then you have a regular ballot at the AGM as with any other AGM. Clubs might not end up with a representative but at least must nominate one.
Obviously these thoughts need to be tweaked a little but just a starting point for conversation. ie like if 2 people from one club wish to nominate for positions...etc...
Continue this process every year to ensure all positions are filled.

OR

Either that or we employ a full time PAID administration body to run the comp. That was the plan with the NCL.
Wage say $50K+ for the top job and maybe smaller sums for assistants like fixturing, umpires etc... - cost to each club say $3000 per season. (we already pay $1500 or similar)
This person's role would be to oversee and run the whole comp, website , mycricket, rules, tribunal, umpires etc... smaller DVCA snr ,jnr & umpires committees still to report to this manager. Position possibly needs to be employed by or overseen by Cric Vic.

????????????????????

Joey Flemming was alleged to be the new President of the DVCA but pulled out at the last minute, leaving the Association without a candidate leading uo to the AGM.

 

[Bundoora]

Joey Flemming was alleged to be the new President of the DVCA but pulled out at the last minute, leaving the Association without a candidate leading uo to the AGM.

I'm of the understanding that was the case at the end of 09/10. President or not, I'm glad he's part of the current crop as he's a very good operator.

 

[Bundoora]

At the risk of sounding like a cretin, how does merging comps increase participation?

On a senior level I don't think it does, on a junior level a "merged comp" may mean an opportunity to play cricket on various nights of the week, which could allow for more kids to participate. At least that was part of a detailed proposal put forward at the NCL meeting, which I'm sure most would agree was well done. Hopefully we (the Dvca) can incorporate some of their ideas into our structure to ensure long term viability.

 

[WanderingUnity]

How about a thought from left field...?
Senior and junior exec require minimum 20 people to fill all positions. More if you throw in the umpires committee. There are 25 clubs.

How about it is every club's responsibility to nominate one person each for DVCA executive committee for next year's AGM. (Positions covering from President, VP, Admin to treasurer, to committee, junior committee, umpires etc..)
Failure to do so - fine $500.
Current executive/committee - who all come from clubs previously - can nominate that club as the club being represented. (ie Joe Fleming - Riverside, Kevin Marshall - Mernda etc...)

Nomination forms can go out to clubs prior to end of current season for positions available.
Pre AGM can then also determine who is running for each position. Nominations can be called for from applicants for positions of president etc..
If there are too many bodies for the places available then you have a regular ballot at the AGM as with any other AGM. Clubs might not end up with a representative but at least must nominate one.
Obviously these thoughts need to be tweaked a little but just a starting point for conversation. ie like if 2 people from one club wish to nominate for positions...etc...
Continue this process every year to ensure all positions are filled.

OR

Either that or we employ a full time PAID administration body to run the comp. That was the plan with the NCL.
Wage say $50K+ for the top job and maybe smaller sums for assistants like fixturing, umpires etc... - cost to each club say $3000 per season. (we already pay $1500 or similar)
This person's role would be to oversee and run the whole comp, website , mycricket, rules, tribunal, umpires etc... smaller DVCA snr ,jnr & umpires committees still to report to this manager. Position possibly needs to be employed by or overseen by Cric Vic.

????????????????????

Not going to happen often Ex, but this is a stunning idea, and I agree with you.
And I think that this is something that should be mentioned at the next delegates meeting (whenever that may be), and spoken about at length.
Would make Clubs accountable, but would also ensure that they have, not only a voice for their concerns, but also a direct link to the happenings of both Executives and what they are doing.
Think that all Clubs should have a representative, even the smallest task could be given, and by going through the process of nominating, makes them think at a Club level about the resposibilities of being on the Exec's.

 

[harry2bob]

why is no one on here complaining about the 20/20 comp. or hasnt it registered that its all the beginning of the ncl right under our noses??
most issues spoken about on this forum are in place in the 20/20 comp.

games are being played as NCL matches, the ncl website complete with scores is up and running.

the "other comp" issues, i bet the beers are still cold and guess what, they have humans

travel issues, each club seems to be able to make it across town to get the games done? and on a tuesday night, why would saturdays be any different. the dvca already travel to whittlesea, the nmca to strathewen, the hdca to fitzroy and thomastown/reservoir!!

this merger will just happen, people objecting are just prolonging the inevitable.

 

[100% BULL]

why is no one on here complaining about the 20/20 comp. or hasnt it registered that its all the beginning of the ncl right under our noses??
most issues spoken about on this forum are in place in the 20/20 comp.

games are being played as NCL matches, the ncl website complete with scores is up and running.

the "other comp" issues, i bet the beers are still cold and guess what, they have humans

travel issues, each club seems to be able to make it across town to get the games done? and on a tuesday night, why would saturdays be any different. the dvca already travel to whittlesea, the nmca to strathewen, the hdca to fitzroy and thomastown/reservoir!!

this merger will just happen, people objecting are just prolonging the inevitable.

I think you are wrong TwoBob, the DVCA is fine as is, even with a few healing wounds.

 

[harry2bob]

I think you are wrong TwoBob, the DVCA is fine as is, even with a few healing wounds.

i agree the DVCA is fine, but with all the objection the the NCL starting, this 20/20 comp under the NCL banner slipped straight through to the keeper.

 

[Ex Prez]

i agree the DVCA is fine, but with all the objection the the NCL starting, this 20/20 comp under the NCL banner slipped straight through to the keeper.

I think the 20/20 is viewed as a separate comeptition - even if under the NCL banner.
Clubs can choose to enter - or not. Good prize money up for grabs at the end.

This mid week comp doesnt detract away from the regular season, which we mostly agree, we prefer to keep until something better is on offer.
Perhaps when the re-launch the NCL again - and it will happen - maybe they need to put prize money up for the division 1 premeiers like the 20/20 comp?

 

[shortnwide]

T20 results should be taken with a grain of salt, but it was nice to see of the results available online, none of the DVCA clubs had their colours lowered by Jika or HDCA sides.

 

[_Blackhawk_]

How about a thought from left field...?
Senior and junior exec require minimum 20 people to fill all positions. More if you throw in the umpires committee. There are 25 clubs.

How about it is every club's responsibility to nominate one person each for DVCA executive committee for next year's AGM. (Positions covering from President, VP, Admin to treasurer, to committee, junior committee, umpires etc..)
Failure to do so - fine $500.
Current executive/committee - who all come from clubs previously - can nominate that club as the club being represented. (ie Joe Fleming - Riverside, Kevin Marshall - Mernda etc...)

Nomination forms can go out to clubs prior to end of current season for positions available.
Pre AGM can then also determine who is running for each position. Nominations can be called for from applicants for positions of president etc..
If there are too many bodies for the places available then you have a regular ballot at the AGM as with any other AGM. Clubs might not end up with a representative but at least must nominate one.
Obviously these thoughts need to be tweaked a little but just a starting point for conversation. ie like if 2 people from one club wish to nominate for positions...etc...
Continue this process every year to ensure all positions are filled.

OR

Either that or we employ a full time PAID administration body to run the comp. That was the plan with the NCL.
Wage say $50K+ for the top job and maybe smaller sums for assistants like fixturing, umpires etc... - cost to each club say $3000 per season. (we already pay $1500 or similar)
This person's role would be to oversee and run the whole comp, website , mycricket, rules, tribunal, umpires etc... smaller DVCA snr ,jnr & umpires committees still to report to this manager. Position possibly needs to be employed by or overseen by Cric Vic.

????????????????????

From where on earth do you pull these ideas? You can't enforce fines on clubs. Only an elected governmental body has the authority to impose fines on people or organistations. No, you can't write it into a contract between the clubs and DVCA, as any contract which has illigal clauses in it, is automatically void. You also cannot compel anyone to volunteer their time, only a court can do that. Even if you could compel people to volunteer (this is also called slavery btw), you would get resentment and active sabotage of the committee by those forced into it.

Paying an employee(s) is only a marginally better solution, however you will need to take into considerations all aspects of employing people. The cost may be far too much and would probably go beyond $3000 per club for affiliation fees, which may put financial strain on some clubs. You want to avoid at all costs.

No, what you need to do, is make serving on the DVCA committee attractive to people and I don't mean offering monetary incentives, that is a simplistic idea which is held by those with no imagination. I would start with taking away the power of the organistation from the clubs. Few people of real quality will want to serve on a committee that has all responcibility and no power, especially after that fact has been demonstrated. I think this is the major sticking point.

I think you need to explain to people what committee do. There aren't many people who will just volunteer for say, the Junior Executive without knowing what they are getting into (yes I'm aware it gets published on the DVCA website but few probably read it). Especially now when it seems as though so much is being done by so few. I would get current committee members around to clubs on selection nights and talk about the committee for 10 minutes then invite people along to a committee meeting without obligation so they can see what goes on and what needs to get done.

Also, target those who have time on their hands. Sure, you can ask the members of club committees but these people already hold jobs, have wives and probably kids and adding more to their plate might overload it. You may find those who's kids are grown and who are looking to retirement would suit the committee well. Remember, you may not need people who are cricketers, look for those with operational expertise. Peoples fathers/mothers/uncles come to mind. There will always be enough cricketers around to offer specific cricket advice if needed.

Now, if you do get another 20 people to volunteer, don't simply leave it there. Keep asking for volunteers and encouraging people to join in, allowing you to train more and more people. This allows you to set up a succession plan if you lose members and rotate peoples positions to prevent burn out and keep the interest alive.

 

[stoneformer]

From where on earth do you pull these ideas? You can't enforce fines on clubs. Only an elected governmental body has the authority to impose fines on people or organistations. No, you can't write it into a contract between the clubs and DVCA, as any contract which has illigal clauses in it, is automatically void. You also cannot compel anyone to volunteer their time, only a court can do that. Even if you could compel people to volunteer (this is also called slavery btw), you would get resentment and active sabotage of the committee by those forced into it.

Paying an employee(s) is only a marginally better solution, however you will need to take into considerations all aspects of employing people. The cost may be far too much and would probably go beyond $3000 per club for affiliation fees, which may put financial strain on some clubs. You want to avoid at all costs.

No, what you need to do, is make serving on the DVCA committee attractive to people and I don't mean offering monetary incentives, that is a simplistic idea which is held by those with no imagination. I would start with taking away the power of the organistation from the clubs. Few people of real quality will want to serve on a committee that has all responcibility and no power, especially after that fact has been demonstrated. I think this is the major sticking point.

I think you need to explain to people what committee do. There aren't many people who will just volunteer for say, the Junior Executive without knowing what they are getting into (yes I'm aware it gets published on the DVCA website but few probably read it). Especially now when it seems as though so much is being done by so few. I would get current committee members around to clubs on selection nights and talk about the committee for 10 minutes then invite people along to a committee meeting without obligation so they can see what goes on and what needs to get done.

Also, target those who have time on their hands. Sure, you can ask the members of club committees but these people already hold jobs, have wives and probably kids and adding more to their plate might overload it. You may find those who's kids are grown and who are looking to retirement would suit the committee well. Remember, you may not need people who are cricketers, look for those with operational expertise. Peoples fathers/mothers/uncles come to mind. There will always be enough cricketers around to offer specific cricket advice if needed.

Now, if you do get another 20 people to volunteer, don't simply leave it there. Keep asking for volunteers and encouraging people to join in, allowing you to train more and more people. This allows you to set up a succession plan if you lose members and rotate peoples positions to prevent burn out and keep the interest alive.

 

[stoneformer]

Right on Blackhawk. Good to see some ideas being thrown around. It is difficult for leadership and good ideas to get traction in an admin model where clubs vote on every single rule or issue and majority rules. Most large sporting bodies elect a Board to make the decisions, plan for the future and that Board appoints professional administrators and operational staff. When a big picture decision arises the Board consults all their stakeholders who are given the opportunity to express their views and opinions in appropriate forums. Then the elected representatives make their decisions and if they make bad and/or inconsistent decisions they usually get the arse.

The fallout from the NCL was tragic. The game as we know it and love it is in trouble and good men with experience and vision have been lost. The plan for junior development in the region was first class and that baby was thrown out with the bathwater. Our sport is getting smashed by football, soccer, basketball etc. Check out how the FFV, the YJFL are administered and promoted and it is not by majority rules in small associations.

Just to clear up a few points about the T20 comp. It will continue to be jointly administered by HDCA, DVCA and NMCA while clubs are interested enough to volunteer to play in it. The NCL website is used for administrative convenience, and, Lower Plenty and Montmorency lowered their colours to Holy Trinity and Northcote Utd in Rd 3.

 

[five80]

Pretty sure you can fine clubs. Afl does it all the time and Cricket Victoria has fined Premier Clubs for various breaches.

 

[Ex Prez]

From where on earth do you pull these ideas? You can't enforce fines on clubs. Only an elected governmental body has the authority to impose fines on people or organistations. No, you can't write it into a contract between the clubs and DVCA, as any contract which has illigal clauses in it, is automatically void. You also cannot compel anyone to volunteer their time, only a court can do that. Even if you could compel people to volunteer (this is also called slavery btw), you would get resentment and active sabotage of the committee by those forced into it.

Paying an employee(s) is only a marginally better solution, however you will need to take into considerations all aspects of employing people. The cost may be far too much and would probably go beyond $3000 per club for affiliation fees, which may put financial strain on some clubs. You want to avoid at all costs.

No, what you need to do, is make serving on the DVCA committee attractive to people and I don't mean offering monetary incentives, that is a simplistic idea which is held by those with no imagination. I would start with taking away the power of the organistation from the clubs. Few people of real quality will want to serve on a committee that has all responcibility and no power, especially after that fact has been demonstrated. I think this is the major sticking point.

I think you need to explain to people what committee do. There aren't many people who will just volunteer for say, the Junior Executive without knowing what they are getting into (yes I'm aware it gets published on the DVCA website but few probably read it). Especially now when it seems as though so much is being done by so few. I would get current committee members around to clubs on selection nights and talk about the committee for 10 minutes then invite people along to a committee meeting without obligation so they can see what goes on and what needs to get done.

Also, target those who have time on their hands. Sure, you can ask the members of club committees but these people already hold jobs, have wives and probably kids and adding more to their plate might overload it. You may find those who's kids are grown and who are looking to retirement would suit the committee well. Remember, you may not need people who are cricketers, look for those with operational expertise. Peoples fathers/mothers/uncles come to mind. There will always be enough cricketers around to offer specific cricket advice if needed.

Now, if you do get another 20 people to volunteer, don't simply leave it there. Keep asking for volunteers and encouraging people to join in, allowing you to train more and more people. This allows you to set up a succession plan if you lose members and rotate peoples positions to prevent burn out and keep the interest alive.

Good to finally see some one else thinking about this.

Didnt say my idea was a brilliant one by any stretch. However what I was trying to do was throw some ownership back to the clubs that shit canned the previous executive to our own detriment. We have a shaky exec now at best and one which is unlikley to continue (in its current format) past this season.

If the previous Exec had all the power and not the clubs, then we would be playing in the NCL this year. Myself - I didnt want that but really dont care at the end of the day. Happy to be playing with my mates at my club. If that means playing against current Jika & HDCA clubs then so be it. As long as the game prospers.

You began to address how we get people to jump on board - that is the trick. No one wants to be involved. Anyone with any real time on their hands generally give that to their clubs first. Finding volunteers to commit time over and above this is the problem. How do you make these time consuming positions attractive - with $$$ ??? or make involvement compulsory for the clubs???

The DVCA certianly have the power to amend the constitution to make this policy and they have been issuing fines to clubs forever... so why couldnt they fine for non compliance here??

Happy to hear your feedback and just glad someone is starting to think about the serious issues at hand. If we think we are in trouble now, then wait until July... unless we get something moving first.

 

[turbo]

Anyone heard a rumour in regards to a high profile HDCA club wanting to initiate discussion with DVCA, re joining the comp. Have also heard of another HDCA club wanting to join either HDCA or NMCA. Would this mean the end of NCL altogether and the spiltting up of the HDCA, with two major comps instead of one super comp?

 

[serg fernandez]

Haven't heard any rumours but it seems logical that if it becomes 2 major competitions, then I would assume that clubs such as Rosanna, Viewbank, Heidelberg and Banyule would presumably ask for a request to Diamond Valley. Not sure about Edinburgh, East Ivanhoe, West , Rosebank. I could fathom Edinburgh travelling to Panton Hill for a game of cricket .
I presume that clubs such as Macleod , Greensborough, and Lalor wouldn't want any changes to the current structure as they have moved to DVCA over the past decade.

 

[_Blackhawk_]

Good to finally see some one else thinking about this.

Didnt say my idea was a brilliant one by any stretch. However what I was trying to do was throw some ownership back to the clubs that shit canned the previous executive to our own detriment. We have a shaky exec now at best and one which is unlikley to continue (in its current format) past this season.

If the previous Exec had all the power and not the clubs, then we would be playing in the NCL this year. Myself - I didnt want that but really dont care at the end of the day. Happy to be playing with my mates at my club. If that means playing against current Jika & HDCA clubs then so be it. As long as the game prospers.

You began to address how we get people to jump on board - that is the trick. No one wants to be involved. Anyone with any real time on their hands generally give that to their clubs first. Finding volunteers to commit time over and above this is the problem. How do you make these time consuming positions attractive - with $$$ ??? or make involvement compulsory for the clubs???

The DVCA certianly have the power to amend the constitution to make this policy and they have been issuing fines to clubs forever... so why couldnt they fine for non compliance here??

Happy to hear your feedback and just glad someone is starting to think about the serious issues at hand. If we think we are in trouble now, then wait until July... unless we get something moving first.

That's why I made the point that when looking for people to go on committee, don't look towards the players themselves. I still think taking the power of the organisation away from the clubs is the way to go (providing the DVCA is going to remain an independant organisation). I'm sure that is something which the clubs will fight tooth and nail to stop because what will they do if something like that passed and they lost their power? Nothing. Sure they could go off and join another organisation, but I'd call that bluff any day of the week. They could make their own organisation, but considering they have all demonstrated their unwillingness to serve on the DVCA committee, not gunna happen.

I'll tell you now, you cannot compel anyone to volunteer their time. That is slavery and simply putting an amendment into the DVCA constitution doesn't suddenly make slavery legal. Just because they have been fining people doesn't mean it's legal either, ask the banks about why they are the defendants in class action lawsuits about late fines. Same thing. If someone challenged it, it would fall over.

I think the DVCA is going to be in real strife come the next AGM. If I was serving on the committee, I would put the ultimatem to the clubs; you will join the NCL or the remaining committee will resign, immediately. If that happened, the clubs would cave in. Frankly, I'm surprised we didn't see that happen last year with the blocking of the NCL merger and resulting loss of people to the committee.

 

[WanderingUnity]

That's why I made the point that when looking for people to go on committee, don't look towards the players themselves. I still think taking the power of the organisation away from the clubs is the way to go (providing the DVCA is going to remain an independant organisation). I'm sure that is something which the clubs will fight tooth and nail to stop because what will they do if something like that passed and they lost their power? Nothing. Sure they could go off and join another organisation, but I'd call that bluff any day of the week. They could make their own organisation, but considering they have all demonstrated their unwillingness to serve on the DVCA committee, not gunna happen.

I'll tell you now, you cannot compel anyone to volunteer their time. That is slavery and simply putting an amendment into the DVCA constitution doesn't suddenly make slavery legal. Just because they have been fining people doesn't mean it's legal either, ask the banks about why they are the defendants in class action lawsuits about late fines. Same thing. If someone challenged it, it would fall over.

I think the DVCA is going to be in real strife come the next AGM. If I was serving on the committee, I would put the ultimatem to the clubs; you will join the NCL or the remaining committee will resign, immediately. If that happened, the clubs would cave in. Frankly, I'm surprised we didn't see that happen last year with the blocking of the NCL merger and resulting loss of people to the committee.

The NCL concept, as has been seen by the NMCA and HDCA finally, is and always was the only way to go. If the 2 comps merge they will get all the support from CV and go from strength to strength with major council and government funding.
The DVCA is in a state of disarray, but I will say again, the current committee is doing a great job, considering the (very) limited resources and manpower that are available.
All the super powers that put the shutters up last year and refused to listen to the (poorly) put forward ideas of the new comp should be ashamed of the outcome now facing our future, and by that future, I mean juniors - still no junior fixture being put on MyCricket, only being updated weekly. This makes us all look amatuerish, and shows our parents and future players a lack of guidance.
BlackHawk, you raise some stellar points, ( and I don't mean I support slavery). But I must ask the questions, does anyone else on your Club committee (not sure which club you are with, but I would suggest a role quite high up with them) have the time to volunteer for the DVCA exec, or any of the non players around your club have the time to run the Junior committee for the comp, a massive task. Not many clubs would have the people to come forward, unless they were asked (forced) to do so.

Will be a very interesting end of the season, and we all look forward to the (hopefully) very early AGM to discuss how we can get this great competition to continue in ANY form.