Dvca, Nmca And Hdca To Merge

[Tongs]

I purely and simply do not want the merger to go ahead. I am the same as CowCorner, I cannot see one benefit in the whole merger for DVCA. There may be benefits for other comps, but in the words of the great Malcolm Blight "I couldn't give a rats toss bag"' what benefits them. I only care about the best interests for the DVCA.

And besides, I have really enjoyed the fact that gone are the days where you didn't have to put your valuables in a bag, lock them in a safe, then put them in a boot of a car that has the best car alarm,for fear it would get stolen, because we all pretty much know and trust each other from years of playing each other. Having more teams out past plenty road will only enforce these safety measures again.

Then again..... Snowy is back in the DVCA

 

[CowCorner]

Well first of all I do think strange things are aligning in the stars if Tongs is agreeing with me.

To those that are excited about a possible exploration of a new direction well I sorta agree, but I would rather this be explored not not pushed like it seems to be. If this has BENIFITS to clubs then I, before I would agree with them, would want them explained fully, seriously I cannot see these benifits.....maybe its just this old bloke.

Other than CV wanting a district side out our way (or two) and they want a feeder comp to breed into it, what the hell does a Sat arvo cricketer that loves playing for a bunch of good blokes and against others (and cracking a coldy with them after the game) get out of this other than the possibility of his club being in danger of being merged to create super clubs in a super comp and watch years and years of blood sweat and tears building a club go down the drain, there are 100s of passed on life members of clubs (and hard workers of DVCA exec) that we are not paying respect to by contemplating an opportunity to force them to merge and lose identity due to a belief by CV that this will help their premier competition.

If there is benefits then I really would like to see them.

After all that if nothing 'really changes' and the merge of comps will not 'really' change much, then I have to ask why the hell bother.

If this will help ALL clubs then can someone please tell me how, I do not want to lose another DVCA club, I have enjoyed playing against them, big or small and they all deserve a chance to stay around.

 

[bestgameintheworld]

I purely and simply do not want the merger to go ahead. I am the same as CowCorner, I cannot see one benefit in the whole merger for DVCA. There may be benefits for other comps, but in the words of the great Malcolm Blight "I couldn't give a rats toss bag"' what benefits them. I only care about the best interests for the DVCA.

And besides, I have really enjoyed the fact that gone are the days where you didn't have to put your valuables in a bag, lock them in a safe, then put them in a boot of a car that has the best car alarm,for fear it would get stolen, because we all pretty much know and trust each other from years of playing each other. Having more teams out past plenty road will only enforce these safety measures again.

Then again..... Snowy is back in the DVCA

your not generalising are you Tongs?

 

[Nawab of Pautadi]

I also agree with you (there's the aligning stars thing again CC), CV (and possibly DVCA) should document their reasons and the benefits of this super competition. Perhaps CV can also reveal what it intends to provide to the Clubs and the new competition by way of funding, assistance with training of juniors, etc. Hasn't been much forthcoming up until now so can't really see that changing.

Don't for a minute believe that the merger alone will lead to a Premier Club in the region as it will happen regardless sometime in the future. Nor believe that all the junior players in the region would be chanting at the bit to play for the local Premier Club. The money Clubs like Melbourne will still continue to scour the state and pick the eyes out of the best talent. As for players returning to their roots once they have finished their Premier days of cricket - it hasn't really happened in the past so how will the new merged competition change players attitude on this?

Wonder if this would have become an issue if DVCA hadn't accepted all the HDCA and JIKA Clubs in the past.

 

[Goliath]

I think it will be good for juniors and their development. You can see from Pathways comps that kids really enjoy playing against the better players and performing at a higher level. If the top sides ( Heidelberg, Mill Park, Diamond creek,East Ivanhoe and Plenty Valley etc in 17s) played one another in a top division it would be better for the kids. Their averages would be a true reflection of their skill and they would have to play cricket shots and bowl well to show off their skills. For the other kids who just play for fun well its better as they come up against people of their own mindset and skills. What kid who doesn't live or die for cricket wants to face the gun fast bowlers and top spin bowlers every time they go out to bat. At the moment it seems the top 2 sides smash everybody else and you can pick the premier even before the first round. A drawback will be some kids may leave their clubs in lower divisions to play in an elite top division but that happens in all sports. If the region has its best sides playing in one comp it might make it easier for District clubs to pick young talent as well. I know in the Pathways comp Fitzroy-Doncaster cast its eye over 14s and 16s falcons games to pick out junior talent. (Unlike another local district club) It will be good when more detail comes out about what is on the CV drawing board.

 

[batting allrounder]

I think it will be good for juniors and their development. You can see from Pathways comps that kids really enjoy playing against the better players and performing at a higher level. If the top sides ( Heidelberg, Mill Park, Diamond creek,East Ivanhoe and Plenty Valley etc in 17s) played one another in a top division it would be better for the kids. Their averages would be a true reflection of their skill and they would have to play cricket shots and bowl well to show off their skills. For the other kids who just play for fun well its better as they come up against people of their own mindset and skills. What kid who doesn't live or die for cricket wants to face the gun fast bowlers and top spin bowlers every time they go out to bat. At the moment it seems the top 2 sides smash everybody else and you can pick the premier even before the first round. A drawback will be some kids may leave their clubs in lower divisions to play in an elite top division but that happens in all sports. If the region has its best sides playing in one comp it might make it easier for District clubs to pick young talent as well. I know in the Pathways comp Fitzroy-Doncaster cast its eye over 14s and 16s falcons games to pick out junior talent. (Unlike another local district club) It will be good when more detail comes out about what is on the CV drawing board.

------------

Disagree with this. If you look at the DVCA under 16 1's ladder at the moment you will find 7 of the 8 teams can still make finals with 2 games left. 1st and 2nd are on 27 points and from 3rd - 7th are on 21 points.

 

[Goliath]

I think Creek has already beaten Lower plenty and Thomastown and only lost 88/86 against NEW.Good luck to the other teams but Creek is still the standout team. The teams outside the 4 are probably just making up the numbers. If there was a triple merge 17s Creek could be top 4 material and Mill Park, Heidelberg and a 1st pick east Ivanhoe team would be the top 4. The bergers top 6 bowlers would open for any other team and Mill Park have some gun bats with Plenty Valley and Lower Plenty, Banyule to also be right up there.You could add maybe another couple to make a 10 team comp. Maybe CV is looking at AFL as a role model. Take the Yarra Junior football league. It wins nearly all the inter comp championships and has 4 divisions that tries to make each team play against other teams that are more compatiable performance wise. This may be better for developing young talent and making some kids play cricket longer. I think the only problem with having this concept is that each player must have equal playing time and this should be legislated. (For instance HDCA retires players at 50 in 17s where DVCA is 75 in 16s and NMCA is 100 in 17s. 50 runs retirement means more kids get a bat etc)

 

[stoneformer]

I also agree with you (there's the aligning stars thing again CC), CV (and possibly DVCA) should document their reasons and the benefits of this super competition. Perhaps CV can also reveal what it intends to provide to the Clubs and the new competition by way of funding, assistance with training of juniors, etc. Hasn't been much forthcoming up until now so can't really see that changing.

Don't for a minute believe that the merger alone will lead to a Premier Club in the region as it will happen regardless sometime in the future. Nor believe that all the junior players in the region would be chanting at the bit to play for the local Premier Club. The money Clubs like Melbourne will still continue to scour the state and pick the eyes out of the best talent. As for players returning to their roots once they have finished their Premier days of cricket - it hasn't really happened in the past so how will the new merged competition change players attitude on this?

Wonder if this would have become an issue if DVCA hadn't accepted all the HDCA and JIKA Clubs in the past.

Good call . If this (merger) idea does not get legs, then Rosanna will want to go to DVCA and if they go then Banyule and Heidelberg will be right behind them. What then for the HDCA?. The DVCA have welcomed Epping, Mernda, Camrea, Thommo Utd, Lalor Stars, St Francis, Bundoora Utd, Macleod and Greensborough in and weakened the other associations. How do the old EDCA clubs like Mont, Lower Plenty and Eltham and the emerging clubs NEW, Hurstbridge etc. feel about these clubs coming in to the DVCA? Throw the top 3 HDCA clubs into the mix and good luck getting into the Barclay Shield.

 

[WanderingUnity]

Good call . If this (merger) idea does not get legs, then Rosanna will want to go to DVCA and if they go then Banyule and Heidelberg will be right behind them. What then for the HDCA?. The DVCA have welcomed Epping, Mernda, Camrea, Thommo Utd, Lalor Stars, St Francis, Bundoora Utd, Macleod and Greensborough in and weakened the other associations. How do the old EDCA clubs like Mont, Lower Plenty and Eltham and the emerging clubs NEW, Hurstbridge etc. feel about these clubs coming in to the DVCA? Throw the top 3 HDCA clubs into the mix and good luck getting into the Barclay Shield.

Totally agree with the stoneformer, as a member of one of the joined clubs, even though we joined over 20 years ago, I see this as a must, the current DVCA clubs and executive need to stand up (if they want to) and let CV know that we want to stay as current the current competition we are now. The interest that has been created by the relegation / promotion system this year (in it's first year) has been immense. Let's allow the 3 HDCA clubs in, at Money or B grade level and let them fight for promotion.
The DVCA is the better run comp of the 3, and would have the most to lose by merging. We need to stick to what we have now, mould it a bit to be better, but bigger is not necessarily the way to do this.

 

[bestgameintheworld]

Totally agree with the stoneformer, as a member of one of the joined clubs, even though we joined over 20 years ago, I see this as a must, the current DVCA clubs and executive need to stand up (if they want to) and let CV know that we want to stay as current the current competition we are now. The interest that has been created by the relegation / promotion system this year (in it's first year) has been immense. Let's allow the 3 HDCA clubs in, at Money or B grade level and let them fight for promotion.
The DVCA is the better run comp of the 3, and would have the most to lose by merging. We need to stick to what we have now, mould it a bit to be better, but bigger is not necessarily the way to do this.

so you are telling me that the best two teams from each comp are not as good as Eltham (easy Tongs just going on form), Bundoora, Macleod?

could'nt really give a stuff if they joined as well as it's well run, change is good, new challengers, and the travel..... it might be a whole another 15 minutes drive......big deal, l'm sure most of us drive 30 to 50 minutes to work each day.

the valley is an good comp, but really....we finally took our heads out of the sand for a second and got four piece balls, move with the times.

 

[bestgameintheworld]

re3t

I think Creek has already beaten Lower plenty and Thomastown and only lost 88/86 against NEW.Good luck to the other teams but Creek is still the standout team. The teams outside the 4 are probably just making up the numbers. If there was a triple merge 17s Creek could be top 4 material and Mill Park, Heidelberg and a 1st pick east Ivanhoe team would be the top 4. The bergers top 6 bowlers would open for any other team and Mill Park have some gun bats with Plenty Valley and Lower Plenty, Banyule to also be right up there.You could add maybe another couple to make a 10 team comp. Maybe CV is looking at AFL as a role model. Take the Yarra Junior football league. It wins nearly all the inter comp championships and has 4 divisions that tries to make each team play against other teams that are more compatiable performance wise. This may be better for developing young talent and making some kids play cricket longer. I think the only problem with having this concept is that each player must have equal playing time and this should be legislated. (For instance HDCA retires players at 50 in 17s where DVCA is 75 in 16s and NMCA is 100 in 17s. 50 runs retirement means more kids get a bat etc)

retiring under 16's and older less then 100 is complete crap, how do we teach our players to bat time, rotate when the opening bowlers come back on, work with lesser players down the order, bat through good blocks of overs. they must learn to become better players to drive thier game hard and dominate. leaving the retiring for the 14's and under.

i think the 17's is a good concept, as some players that just miss the under 16 cut off need that extra year so that they can be alittle more confident in playing senior cricket.

 

[150 clicks]

why does the DVCA need to be included in the merge? if the HDCA and NMCA are in such bad shape why cant they merge together n leave the DV out?

 

[stoneformer]

Totally agree with the stoneformer, as a member of one of the joined clubs, even though we joined over 20 years ago, I see this as a must, the current DVCA clubs and executive need to stand up (if they want to) and let CV know that we want to stay as current the current competition we are now. The interest that has been created by the relegation / promotion system this year (in it's first year) has been immense. Let's allow the 3 HDCA clubs in, at Money or B grade level and let them fight for promotion.
The DVCA is the better run comp of the 3, and would have the most to lose by merging. We need to stick to what we have now, mould it a bit to be better, but bigger is not necessarily the way to do this.

How do you bring in 3 leading clubs and NOT be bigger?

 

[serg fernandez]

so you are telling me that the best two teams from each comp are not as good as Eltham (easy Tongs just going on form), Bundoora, Macleod?

could'nt really give a stuff if they joined as well as it's well run, change is good, new challengers, and the travel..... it might be a whole another 15 minutes drive......big deal, l'm sure most of us drive 30 to 50 minutes to work each day.

the valley is an good comp, but really....we finally took our heads out of the sand for a second and got four piece balls, move with the times.

Could be debatable. Macleod finished in top 4 the year they left HDCA, and took them 4 years to get to Barclay. Greensborough in a similar position still can't crack it into Barclay. Money Shield is at its strongest ever right now, ( you rarely see an outright defeat in Money anymore ). The sides like Heidelberg, Rosebank, Rosanna, and Banyule would probably be able to compete at Barclay Level, it's just getting there which is the hard part. And when you throw them all into one comp at Money Shield level, it's makes promotion even harder. If this doesn't make any sense, I will attempt to clarify again.

 

[stoneformer]

You could debate forever about who would beat who if the top teams from each comp where to play each other. There is only one way to find out.

 

[northmetroboy]

Totally agree with the stoneformer, as a member of one of the joined clubs, even though we joined over 20 years ago, I see this as a must, the current DVCA clubs and executive need to stand up (if they want to) and let CV know that we want to stay as current the current competition we are now. The interest that has been created by the relegation / promotion system this year (in it's first year) has been immense. Let's allow the 3 HDCA clubs in, at Money or B grade level and let them fight for promotion.
The DVCA is the better run comp of the 3, and would have the most to lose by merging. We need to stick to what we have now, mould it a bit to be better, but bigger is not necessarily the way to do this.

Wouldnt be so sure about that, maybe in the 80 or 90's i could agree lol, but would be close to the worst run of the 3 at present.

do they even have anyone under 50 on the board??
took forever to change balls or change anything for that matter!! still dont have a one day comp, when every kid who plays or watches cricket wants 20/20's or onedayers????

maybe just maybe, but if the DVCA were the better run comp, this wouldnt be happening....this is not 1980

Either way, structurally I dont see why the comps can't maintain some kind of identity...something like a super league for the top 10 clubs, who 2nd XI moves into their local structures A grade.....then have 3 divs of equal standing, lets say, Barclay, Jika Shield and HDCA's jack shield? premier team from each of them, replaces lowest ranked team in super comp from their local division.

that way its win-win...comps get their own identity somewhat, travel is minimised, and cricket victoria gets a feeder comp which would have some serious talent going around.

Could also have a super 'one day comp with simalar structure, only the clubs who want in, will have to travel

thats of course if is has to happen....i'm not really for it

 

[WanderingUnity]

How do you bring in 3 leading clubs and NOT be bigger?

We let two sides in last year, and nobody is kicking up a major stink.
There will be some merging and folding of clubs, with or with out the merger, so allowing 2 or 3 sides in will be fine. And if they are the stronger clubs, both on and off field, then that will better the current DVCA.

 

[WanderingUnity]

Wouldnt be so sure about that, maybe in the 80 or 90's i could agree lol, but would be close to the worst run of the 3 at present.

do they even have anyone under 50 on the board??
took forever to change balls or change anything for that matter!! still dont have a one day comp, when every kid who plays or watches cricket wants 20/20's or onedayers????

maybe just maybe, but if the DVCA were the better run comp, this wouldnt be happening....this is not 1980

Either way, structurally I dont see why the comps can't maintain some kind of identity...something like a super league for the top 10 clubs, who 2nd XI moves into their local structures A grade.....then have 3 divs of equal standing, lets say, Barclay, Jika Shield and HDCA's jack shield? premier team from each of them, replaces lowest ranked team in super comp from their local division.

that way its win-win...comps get their own identity somewhat, travel is minimised, and cricket victoria gets a feeder comp which would have some serious talent going around.

Could also have a super 'one day comp with simalar structure, only the clubs who want in, will have to travel

thats of course if is has to happen....i'm not really for it

Some good points -
DVCA board did take a while to make a decision re the 4 pce balls, due to involving all clubs boards and allowing people to have a say. It is not a monarchy, people can have their say.
A one day comp should happen, but not to benefit the 20 year olds, should be to allow the older blokes to play and young kids can play 80 over cricket at a higher level and develop, surely the demise of the Test side has shown that young players need more than ever to learn the value of a good long innings.
Point in red - what if the comps lowest ranked sides finish 1,2,3 and 5 out of 12 teams, you are saying we should relegate a side finishing just outside the finals. Think some more on this!!

 

[Goliath]

re3t


retiring under 16's and older less then 100 is complete crap, how do we teach our players to bat time, rotate when the opening bowlers come back on, work with lesser players down the order, bat through good blocks of overs. they must learn to become better players to drive thier game hard and dominate. leaving the retiring for the 14's and under.

i think the 17's is a good concept, as some players that just miss the under 16 cut off need that extra year so that they can be alittle more confident in playing senior cricket.

Thats true but there is plenty of time to do that when the kids play 80 overs games in seniors.Most of the top players with the ability to score 17s hundreds will have already played 2 or 3 seasons of seniors anyway and its the onus of the senior coaches and captains to teach these skills. There is a large drop in numbers at 16s and 17s level so you need to do as much as you can to keep kids interested in playing. Another good idea that NMCA have is that 17s cut off date is April instead of September which has given more kids a chance to play another year of juniors.(falling numbers brought this decision on I think).

 

[100% BULL]

so you are telling me that the best two teams from each comp are not as good as Eltham (easy Tongs just going on form), Bundoora, Macleod?

could'nt really give a stuff if they joined as well as it's well run, change is good, new challengers, and the travel..... it might be a whole another 15 minutes drive......big deal, l'm sure most of us drive 30 to 50 minutes to work each day.

the valley is an good comp, but really....we finally took our heads out of the sand for a second and got four piece balls, move with the times.

When Saturday afternoons become work I'll stop playing!!!!!