England in South Africa

Re: England in South Africa

I think the major problem with South African cricket at the moment is none other than the media. Say what you want about the pivotal role the media plays in sport, other than just coverage.

Look at the role the media plays in the cricketing in other competitive countries. Look at Australia, which is the first example that comes to mind. When we (the Proteas) were down under and beat them in the first test, the newspapers went out of control. Now obviously I don't know anything about the full reports and thus more, but the post-match discussions and South African discussion panels such as the Inside Edge team showed images of the newspapers capturing the headlines, and they all read along the lines of "Lee, Hayden, Symonds. Drop them now before they cause more damage" and "Questionable captaincy". Say what you might, but that just puts so much more pressure on the players, management and selectors. They lost that series, and look at the squad they brought to SA to beat us here. It consisted of 4 new players who all made big impacts on the series: Bollinger, McDonald, Siddle, and whatshisface who was that all-rounder who scored a century.

Here it's exactly the opposite. The last time Ntini did anything was when he took 3 wickets against Oz in the first innings of the first test. Now look at the pressure being applied on him after the first test, when there was speculation of dropping him. Arthur, on SABC News, after the first test draw against England, "No, there is no question of dropping Makhaya for Steyn's return. If Steyn is fit it will be a regulation swap with Friedel De Wet. Ntini has done an excellent job for us over the years and he is continuing to do so. He bowled excellently in the last match (3 wickets, economy rate of 4) and he did a great (Kepler Wessel's new favourite word) holding job (the opening bowler who is supposed to tie up an end and keep them from scoring, ?)."

Now how much pressure is on Ntini after that interview? Next to nothing. Did you read anything in the papers about his poor performance? No, not really, just a mention of his figures. What makes me angrier, is that after this from Arthur, they pick Ntini based on reputation, and how many overs does he bowl on Day 2 of the second test? England batted for about 50 overs, and our "excellent" bowler doing the "holding job" bowls 3 overs in the entire day, and goes for 25 off those 3. The English innings gets concluded with Makhaya bowling 24 overs at 4 runs per over. Ridiculous for test match cricket.

Another issue for me is Smith's decisions in the last two tests. Now I'm almost certain that it's not only him making the decisions, and that Arthur/management also play a pivotal role. Second test-match. Steyn bowls 3 overs with the new ball. He gets a good line and length, and Smith takes him off. Now I'm sorry but if you only give your opening bowler 3 overs then what the hell? Now you have Kallis bowling at 120kph with a 6 overs old ball. With all the respect I have for Kallis, he is just not going to rattle the opening batsmen with the new ball.

More pre-meditation later on. Smith does his old trick where he lets Harris bowl long spells at one end while he rotates the quickies on the other. He gives Ntini 5, takes him off, he gives Steyn 5, takes him off. He gives Morkel 5, Morne bowls beautifully and rattles both batsmen, you can just sense something is going to happen with this great line and length he has going. Play and miss, play and miss, play and miss, play and miss. But oh no Biff's watch says it's 5 overs past and Morkel has to go off and get replaced by Kallis.

Our team just does not have any plans for each batsman. To every batsman it's just outside-off level with top of off-stump with an occasional short and fuller delivery. England has a plan for most of our batsman. Duminy gets banged with short ones. Kallis as well. Amla gets set up for fuller deliveries because of the trouble he has with that trigger movement. Etcetera etcetera. This is why England are leading the series.

What are your thoughts on Duminy developing into an all-rounder? His batting has lacked these last few games, but I really see him fulfilling a similar role to the one Harris has at the moment. Duminy spins it the same amount, if not more than Harris. And how does Harris get most of his wickets? By just tying the batsmen down and letting them make the mistakes. Duminy can do the same I think. Would love to hear your thoughts on this. I for one am pretty certain that if Harris can get 3 wickets in 30 odd overs, then so can Duminy.

I love Boycott though. Like I said, our media and our commentators don't say anything about the shit that goes down, but Boycott says it like it is. A memorable quote from the old chap to end off my rant:

Boycott said:
The bowling side's captain will always look to do what the batsmen don't want him to do. Look what's happened now. Right after tea the ball has been given to a medium pace seamer. Oh yeah, now they're giving the ball to Harris. Yeah after tea that's really going to scare the batsmen.
 
Re: England in South Africa

@Staple -> Your post seems a rant of note and some of it justified. The media is there to sell newspapers, magazines and get people to want to resubscribe on satellite TV. However they do not pick the side nor manage it .. those are done by selected individuals..

Pressure is a natural side product of being a professional sportsman and or manager. However they moan consistently on having "an increased workload" and having short careers but that is why only 200+ people in the entire world can be professional cricketers. If the kitchen is too hot retire and become a mercenary ie. Play in England etc..

Your points on Ntini are the problem South African cricket -> management has become friendly and "being a family".. I hate saying it but he should have seen the test side after the 100th Test match. He is a success story but you cannot say that he is going to play because of the political aspect of his selection. The truth is that he is a senior player coming to the end of his career .. and a career will end sometime ..

I do not blame the media I blame the management of the side -> Mickey Arthur has never done anything to controversial after his boardroom fight with the President. However if you look at my last blog post you will agree with me that 2009 has been an awful year for South Africa in terms of Tets results ->6 played, 1 won, 4 losses and 1 draw.. as you mention if this was to happen in Australia I suspect that Nielsen would have been shown the door and they would have moved on to someone else..

I agree with you on the Holding job -> South Africa is in a state of need for an attacking bowler which is possible if Steyn, Morne Morkel get form.

Smiths captaincy has been baffling but what can he do differently -> he can only throw the ball to the players that are in the side.. lets be honest I would have thrown the ball to De Wet at Centurion and not Ntini.

The batting woes I think are the one issue I have with Arthur -> why has he not been able to help Amla and Duminy ? Or get someone else another consultant to come and help. Also why is that we Arthur is put on the spot he always goes on the line "The players are internationals and know their own games so I cant coach them but rather facilitate change..?" He seems to be more and more becoming like John Buchanan and is proving Shane Warne correct in that some coaches are what takes you to the ground from hotel.. Warney you were right..

Duminy can develop into an all rounder but his primary responsibility is scoring runs and plenty of them as well. The one issue I have is that Duminy is now under pressure but Arthur should show him the loyalty he showed AB De Villiers..

The truth is maybe that the current England tour might just be the start of the breakdown between Arthur, Barnes and Proctor (the convenor of selectors who is slowing taking SA Cricket back and not forward.. ie. Imran Taahir being selected after CSA informed him of his ineligiblity)'

If I can give some advice is that I have stopped listening to SABC commentary is it is sometimes so bad and just drives one to drink.. Listen to the Sky commentary on DSTV it makes for a better experience.
 
Re: England in South Africa

LIONS then DAYLIGHT;383795 said:
Kallis is a leader in the SA team, trying to say otherwise is absurd, from memory he never wanted to be captain but we really have little idea about leadership roles other then who is has the c next to their name.

Kallis is the most experienced player in the SA, from what I understand about SA is that they are trying to foster an environment where all team members contribute to the so called leadership group.

He may be "a" leader, though that's not what I said. Hardly absurd to raise it, as throughout the turbulence following Cronje's departure, he has not had a stint in the top job. Whatever the reasons, it surely says something about him.

I like the way Kallis holds himself on the field, and I would rate him the hardest man to dismiss in world cricket for the past 12 years or so, so I'm not paying out on him as part of any grudge. I just wonder if there's a bit of selfishness behind the quiet demeanor, as Ljp alluded to.
 
Re: England in South Africa

I absolutely agree with you Hattrick. Arthur just keeps smiling no matter what happens.

And I've also been ranting somewhat on another forum about the management behind the team, which is just not good enough I feel. We tend to give players more rope than we should. AB De Villiers was in the side originally to open, then he failed horrifically and got moved down as a middle order batsman, where he also failed - horrifically. It was only after a huge period of time where he started flourishing, and even now he plays with too much style and is a bit flashy, which is fine seeing as he gets a 40-odd every game but he really needs to kick on more. But that's a bit off the point. AB does not want to work on his keeping, and says he wants to focus on his batting (and songwriting *puke*), whilst as I understand it he was the keeper they were going to raise to replace Bouch when he is done. Now I'm going to go as far and not even going to latch onto that. Look at Prince. He is not an opener. Wessels summed it up nicely by calling him reluctant. Prince is a middle-order batsman, through and through. AB fits better as an opener, and I don't know if you agree or not, but I'd rather have him there and have Prince where he is comfortable.

I remember one bloke, which name seems to have escaped me, from New Zealand. He scored a century against us batting at number 6 I think in a Newlands ODI on their last tour here. Then the Kiwi's told him that he should open the batting in test cricket which he refused, and he got dropped from the squad. That's the sort of attitude I want from our management. If AB here says he does not want to open or he does not want to be raised as a keeper then it's just all too well.

Another main point, which I have already mentioned and which should really be targeted, is the planning. There is too much pre-meditation from our team. We need to work with specific plans for specific batsman, like every single other team does.

EDIT: I was at Newlands Day 3, and I must say it was the hottest day at Newlands which I have ever had. I sat right in the middle of the sun near the scoreboard until 4pm, needless to say I got burnt rather badly. At least I got to watch two very good innings's
 
Re: England in South Africa

@Ljp @LTD @sobersymonds

gentleman Kallis has been captain in a stand in role once for the record. I think it is well known fact that he has stated that he does not want the captaincy.. He does everything and captaincy might just do to him what it did to Flintoff in that Ashes series.. "floating drunk" .. I respect him for the honesty..

Selfish maybe but one thing that you all do not mention is that he has had to do the rebuilding role since his debut .. I think it is indicative on the difference in talent that has played with him and the fact that it is "accepted" by all an sundry that he will score runs.. no matter what .. the slowness is a chronic issue and I think he just does not feel the need to change his scoring rate.. alas the has "transformed" into an opening bat in the shorter form.. he is the best player South Africa has has in the last 20 years and the debate will go on till his retirement on his slow scoring.

@Staple -> you a Saffa? If you are, welcome aboard .. you raise the points that the man on the street knows. I have it on good authority that the coaching staff is under pressure and changes might happen in the aftermath of the England tour..

AB De Villiers is a middle order batsman .. his best performances have happened there so I will leave him there.. if you put me on the spot I think they (the selectors) have missed the beat and should have selected a young opener (Rilee Rossouw.. I like him and see that he has what it takes and opens the batting at First Class cricket) and played him in Johannesburg.

We are moving into an era where changes are going to have to happen .. I am in agreement regarding the planning you refer to .. they have a video man and he should be playing a role for both coach and captain.

The truth is that the Johannesburg test is one with serious implications for everyone connected with CSA. We must just state that the English have fought hard and deserve to be one ahead..

Can I have some opinions on Ball gate -> I watched the Test match and think that the Proteas should be hammered over the claims of ball tampering.. if they felt so strong about it make a case with the match referee and do not just give the media the scoop .. and put the English in a bad light... mas I would love to hear your views on this..
 
Re: England in South Africa

Yeah definitely agree that AB is a middle-order batsman, but the question we should be asking is whether or not he will do a better job than Ashwell at the top of the order? Hell they might even let Amla open seeing as he comes in after 5 overs anyways. Thing is Ashwell is a brilliant middle-order batsman.

I don't really agree with you on Rilee. Yes, he is an absolutely wonderful batsman and he is extremely talented, but I think he is too young. Give him one or two more first-class seasons before you include him in the squad. There have been many cricketers who were chosen for international sides at too young an age and then they just disappear all of the sudden.

Another thing I feel which could contribute hugely to turning out better test players and test crowds in South Africa, is to give more publicity to our First-Class scene. There is no advertising, no promoting, you might read a small snippet about a first-class match in the papers, and there is no broadcasting. I would much rather watch a first-class match between the Cobras and the Titans than watch one of these new 40/40 bullshit matches.

Hattrick, do you perhaps know how Parnell and Tsotsobe fared in the first-class season? There's some talent. Left-arm with genuine pace, we need something like that. Just gives some personality to your bowling attack, like what Andre Nel did. And apparently Parnell can bat a bit as well. I saw him in the u/21 world cup final vs India, where he batted at number 6.

About the ball thing; that's exactly how our team/management currently is. Iffy-iffy. Not here nor there.
 
Re: England in South Africa

@Staple Tsotsobe, Parnell and De Villiers took 6 wickets between them and I hope that Parnell proves them right as it seems that he is making his debut tommorrow in Johannesburg .. This potentially can backfire on Arthur and company.

This 5 days has some big implications on various players and managements positions, I also hope that the weather does not play a role in the result.
 
Re: England in South Africa

For some reason I think this game will be decided at the toss, I don't think this game will go 3 days. Im predicting the seamers to run rife on day 1.

Should make for interesting viewing.
 
Re: England in South Africa

England won the toss and batted, they'll probably be regretting that now. Strauss went first ball of the innings to Dale Steyn with Trott following LBW in the next over to Morne Morkel after chasing just about everything outside off stump. Pietersen followed cheaply again for seven and looks horribly out of form and when Cook was out LBW to Morkel off a marginal decision, England were 4/39.

They have recoeved somewhat since then through Collingwood and Bell who have added 46 runs to take England to 4/85. Collingwood has been very positive so far in his strokeplay and is on 30 whilst Bell has been a bit more conservative and is up to 18.

Morkel has three wickets whilst Steyn has one.
 
Re: England in South Africa

9/158 now, Collingwood and Bell made it to 115 before Colly was caught at point for 47, squared up nicely by debutant Ryan McLaren who got his first test wicket. Bell followed soon after for 35 and it's been a steady decline since then.

Steyn has four wickets now, Morkel still has three with Kallis the other and of course McLaren's first test scalp.
 
Re: England in South Africa

England were bowled out for 180, Anderson and Swann added 25 before Swann knicked Steyn behind for 27 to give Steyn his first 5-for against the English side. He now has a 5-for against every test nation except Zimbabwe (who are still classified as a test nation even though they don't play tests - figure that one out).

Anyway, South Africa are 0/19 from seven overs in reply. There was a one hour rain delay in the middle of the South Africa innings but that has passed and conditions have become a lot better at Newlands.

If the light and rain hold out there could still be another 90 minutes of play today.
 
Re: England in South Africa

But of course as soon as Prince gets a lucky edge through 4th slip the umpires realise it is too tough for the home side so offered them the light in the hope of blue skies tomorrow
 
Re: England in South Africa

Well where was the 4th slip?

Late in the day, heavy conditions.

In Sydney both teams on day 1 were using 4 slips.

The umpires got together before that over anyway Eddie, get over it.
 
Re: England in South Africa

29 with out loss and the day was definitely South Africas. However I do not agree with the selection of Ryan McLaren ... whatever he did was more than Parnell (3 overs at 6 rpo) did . However I think the truth is that the wicket was the major factor in it.. Steyn is getting better as is Morkel.. wonders what some bowling can do for one hey Mickey..? For the record I do not like result pitches like the one in Johannesburg.. it hurts the game and this test match can potentially only last 3 days..

England will have to fight back and I suspect they made an error in leaving Onions out.. Sidebottom for me has been out of action for the entire series and then you bring him in in the last test match..


@eddiesmith ? mate I get the idea that you think the Saffas are getting all the umpire help they can.. I disagree and yes Prince is looking like a cat on a hot tin roof.. but the truth is that the standard has been set and Im sure if the Baggy greens were in that you would not have minded them getting the light.. The Home sides in general get the better umpire decision and if there is a problem with it .. take a review and get the skipper to talk to the umpire..
 
Re: England in South Africa

Big controversey coming up Im afraid involving Harper the 3rd umpire.

Smith smashed the cover off the ball but was given not out by the on field ump, went up stairs and as always without hotspot, its hard to rule on the decision.

The stump mikes appeared to pick up a load noice, but there was confusion whether this was given to harper.

Anyway, the Poms are not happy and this is bound to be a massive talking point.
 
Re: England in South Africa

@LtD mate your spot on and I sense Mr Harper might get a some issues about it. This will be a a nice test for the ICC and the fact that hotspot is not available so I suspect the ECB and the ICC will clash heads over this..
 
Re: England in South Africa

I think the problem is that there are only something like 4 hotspot cameras in the world, and they are very expensive to hire. You don't actually buy them, I think you have to hire them off the guy that invented them.
 
Re: England in South Africa

South Africa declared at 7/423, Smith top scored with 105, Boucher made 95, Amla 75 and de Villiers 58. Stuart Broad was the best of the English bowlers with 3/83, Ryan Sidebottom and Graeme Swann picked up two wickets each.

In reply, England have slipped to 3/48, still 195 runs behind South Africa's first innings total. Cook and Trott were out for single digit scores and Strauss was dismissed about ten minutes ago for 22. Currently play has been stopped due to bad light. Steyn, Morkel and Parnell have the wickets.
 
Re: England in South Africa

Tomorrow will be the biggest innings of Kevin Pietersen's career, in my book. He is a long way from form and I would have dropped him by now, for Michael Carberry. If he can make a century, or some form of decent innings, and then be dismissed by a genuinely brilliant ball, and not an arrogant shot, then this fourth test won't be such a loss for England.

I reckon we'll be bowled out by tea for around 200 and South Africa will have a deserved series draw.
 
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