Finger Spin Bowling.

[Boris]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

Not sure about your synthetics, but ours are a lot harder to bowl on.

We get ours from a company called 'Gabba Grass' and they specialise in making 'Queensland condition synthetic pitches' and not surprisingly they are based out of the Gabba.

They have created different sorts of pitches, and through analysis they major product is a copy of the generalised Gabba surface after 'testing' to get it just right.

This means our pitches are just like a green top pretty much. Seams, bounces some, although the bounce is irregular at times, and very fast of the pitch. And here we get quite a lot of humidity so some days the ball swings like crazy. Funnily enough the only export we get from here are fast bowlers. Spinning on them is very difficult.

And then our turf pitches, that we normally play on if they are available, are normally green and not that hard anyway, they don't let the grass die off so there is not as much work involved.

 

[T.A Offspinner]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

well our synthetics are a slab of cement with a strip of fake grass on them so it depends, if you get a very new one or a very old one you can turn it miles but anything in between will give you nothing. Our turf however is looked after pretty well, for the most of it they'll be rather flat and good for batting but after the first innings they start to break up because they use more of a clay compound than just normal bulli, so it start to crack up and become a dustbowl very late in the day...

 

[Boris]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

With my old club it was really good, we even got to play on the Maroochydore wicket suitable for international play. Australia played a warm up game while on a training camp at coolum there versus the Scorchers, which included Nofke (the only higher quality export from here of late) and he ended up with a 6 fa, then the next day our team played on there for a final. All the grounds were of a very high quality. Here because the funding is less we have two very good pitches, used for higher grades, and two not so good ones, both different sides of town.

The good thing is that we have exceptional nets here and a pretty good and we have good access to a good coach too.

Do pitches make any difference to your bowling?

 

[T.A Offspinner]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

well I like to think on a day when I'm bowling poorly on a synthetic that it's the pitch (it's most likely not though) but on turf I'm pretty consistant, that's why I have the spinners spot in my rep team...

 

[Boris]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

Yeah, I guess that's what I do too to a degree.

There is one pitch I just cannot bowl or bat on though, it's a synthetic wicket and it looks like it was built on a trampoline. A very tennis ball like bounce and when I bat on it I go to block on the front foot and the ball hits me in the hands. That is the level of bounce on it.

Any suggestions for bowling on such a bouncy wicket? I creep further and further forward, but the ball is still bouncing too much and they can rock back and pull or cut it where they want, the ball will inevitably bounce over the stumps if they miss. Then if I pitch it full enough to hit the stumps they take a step and it becomes a half volley where they don't have to bother countering any spin at all.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

Any suggestions for bowling on such a bouncy wicket? I creep further and further forward, but the ball is still bouncing too much and they can rock back and pull or cut it where they want, the ball will inevitably bounce over the stumps if they miss. Then if I pitch it full enough to hit the stumps they take a step and it becomes a half volley where they don't have to bother countering any spin at all.

It's undeniably tough but IMO the most effective way for a spinner to bowl on a bouncy wicket is to work on flight variations and drift. Daniel Vettori is a great example - doesn't turn it much, isn't that accurate, but has been massively successful even on NZ seamers purely because he creates so much uncertainty out of the hand as to where the ball is going to land. If you can do that then you can keep the batsmen back in their crease enough to allow you to pitch the ball up there. Easier said than done, though.

Other than that, make sure don't overbowl your slider. It's pretty much your only real 'weapon ball' on that kind of pitch and if the batsmen start to expect it then the potency's gone.

 

[Boris]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

I know I get some good drift, but never totally controlled.

Are there any techniques involved in controlling the amount of drift you are getting?

I can experiment with spin, pace, bounce etc, but not drift. If I find myself ball watching to find the drift, I end up being innacurate. I can't really experiment with it so I will have to take people's word.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

I know I get some good drift, but never totally controlled.

Are there any techniques involved in controlling the amount of drift you are getting?

I can experiment with spin, pace, bounce etc, but not drift. If I find myself ball watching to find the drift, I end up being innacurate. I can't really experiment with it so I will have to take people's word.

This is my problem too, which I've been working on a bit.

I can't deliberately vary my drift but I've been working on just getting it consistent so I at least know where it's going. The main thing seems to be getting a consistent action and not try and rip the ball too much. It reduces the unpredictability for the batsman though, so I have been working on my key variations - the sliding arm ball and dipping topspinner.

My arm ball is really coming along to the point where it's my main weapon. I used to bowl medium pacers, so with a bit of practice I can bowl a slider that gets just a slight bit of swing on it, so I can move it the other way (back into the right-hander, I'm LAO). Absolute gold for bowleds and LBWs, and even just getting an adventurous batsman to be a bit more circumspect about staying in his crease.

Haven't even bothered working on a doosra-like ball, it's way too advanced for me. As a very part-time bowler, I've had the most success when I try and keep it as simple and accurate as possible, and using my few variations extremely sparingly so they retain the surprise element.

 

[Boris]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

I think I just need someone to tell me whether I get the drift I am aiming for or not. I often hear the batsman say something like "You beat me in flight that time" but if I actually ask them how much it drifted they say something like "That would infer I actually watched it in flight"...

And yes, simple always works. Whenever I go for the big tricky ball is the ball that goes over the fence.

 

[doctortran]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

Boris, I think you're trying to control the drift too much. You shouldn't be trying to drift it onto a penny -- you should be drifting it into an area where you know you will trouble the batsman.

You can't control exactly how much drift you get -- it's like a sprinkler... you know it's going to water a particular area, but you can never control exactly where the water droplets will go. Therefore go with the flow; just improvise and adjust.

However here are some tips on actually landing it where you want. It seems to me that your strong interest in drift may be caused by too much of it, or the perception of too much and hence difficulty with control.

Shane Warne says think up when you bowl. I reckon think up and down. You come into bowl -- you use your left arm to help you lead your right arm. You put your left arm and hence left shoulder up high -- hence up. Then when you release you want your bowling shoulder to be right up, and your waist too -- hence also up. Your left shoulder should move-- you want that as directly below your bowling arm as possible -- hence down. You want that left shoulder down at 5- 6 o'clock, and your bowling shoulder at about 12- about 2. The concept of up and down, like Newton's Third Law of Motion, will give you more control -- less short stuff.

Just as up and down controls length, centre of gravity (or to create a 3d geometry metaphor... forward and backward) controls line. Too far forward when you try too hard and it goes leg side. Too far back not taking a long enough stride and it goes to the off side. I like to bend my back knee like in a power pose before I leg drive to ensure my weight is toward the back. This is balanced out by a decently long stride and an upper body tilting forward. Oh and make sure you land on the balls of your feet -- not on the heel or on the toes... not too far forward or back. Altogether, that generally gets it to land in a nice area outside the off stump.

Drift is great - really great. But it's only put best at work when it's late drift... which even for great spinners is hard to get. Hence line and length to control and to deceive the batsman are always more important factors for a spin bowler. Control that line and length and you will turn into an ordinary spin bowler -- then later add on control that late drift, which will improve you that little bit extra (i.e. extraordinary). As they say -- one step at a time.

 

[Boris]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

Boris, I think you're trying to control the drift too much. You shouldn't be trying to drift it onto a penny -- you should be drifting it into an area where you know you will trouble the batsman.

You can't control exactly how much drift you get -- it's like a sprinkler... you know it's going to water a particular area, but you can never control exactly where the water droplets will go. Therefore go with the flow; just improvise and adjust.

However here are some tips on actually landing it where you want. It seems to me that your strong interest in drift may be caused by too much of it, or the perception of too much and hence difficulty with control.

Shane Warne says think up when you bowl. I reckon think up and down. You come into bowl -- you use your left arm to help you lead your right arm. You put your left arm and hence left shoulder up high -- hence up. Then when you release you want your bowling shoulder to be right up, and your waist too -- hence also up. Your left shoulder should move-- you want that as directly below your bowling arm as possible -- hence down. You want that left shoulder down at 5- 6 o'clock, and your bowling shoulder at about 12- about 2. The concept of up and down, like Newton's Third Law of Motion, will give you more control -- less short stuff.

Just as up and down controls length, centre of gravity (or to create a 3d geometry metaphor... forward and backward) controls line. Too far forward when you try too hard and it goes leg side. Too far back not taking a long enough stride and it goes to the off side. I like to bend my back knee like in a power pose before I leg drive to ensure my weight is toward the back. This is balanced out by a decently long stride and an upper body tilting forward. Oh and make sure you land on the balls of your feet -- not on the heel or on the toes... not too far forward or back. Altogether, that generally gets it to land in a nice area outside the off stump.

Drift is great - really great. But it's only put best at work when it's late drift... which even for great spinners is hard to get. Hence line and length to control and to deceive the batsman are always more important factors for a spin bowler. Control that line and length and you will turn into an ordinary spin bowler -- then later add on control that late drift, which will improve you that little bit extra (i.e. extraordinary). As they say -- one step at a time.

The main reason I wanted the drift was for the bouncy pitches we have, where it is your only weapon. I just wanted to be able to know that a ball I bowl is going to have some drift so the batsman has some difficulty despite batting on a very good pitch with little turn and too much bounce (I get a lot of bounce with the ball coming from 2.3-2.5 metres when released from the hand with my height and natural high action). On those bouncy pitches I cannot get a ball to hit the stumps without bowling a half volley or full toss, unless it is a slider, which if I bowl too many then the surprise of the ball is lost.

Thank you very much. Natural variation is a spinner's biggest weapon.

 

[doctortran]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

Bouncy pitches -- yeah. I remember back in the day when I was just beginning off-spin bowling and I used to rip it large, but I also bounced it too high. How many deliveries would just turn in through the gap but over the stumps. So I totally understand that problem.

I now find that I don't bounce it as much -- at least when I try to bowl the batsman. Perhaps I am bowling on different pitches to back then, but in any case it seems the ball only goes over the stumps 50% rather than all the time now... when I bowl that beauty that beats him perfectly through the gate. Assuming I am bowling on similar wickets -- what was my solution? I just think its speed of delivery. If you bowl it faster, and you can flight it and drop it faster, the ball will get to the stumps before it reaches its maximum height.

Learn to bowl it faster, learn to loop it and flight it at close to the professional speed and the bounce shouldn't be a problem.

Having problems finding ways around a batsman on a bouncy pitch? I reckon... flight it drop it and change it up. If you can stop the batsman scoring on a good wicket, they'll fall for the bait eventually. Keep giving him different angles... i.e. of the arm and on the crease... every so often so that your captain still thinks, and I suppose so too the batsman, you're trying to get him out and looking dangerous. It's really a lot about patience, making subtle changes, changes that beat the batsman.

To highlight the point about patience... Test cricket off spinners have a strike rate of 60+ balls per wicket. Club cricketers should aim to be at about 40 -50... and that's probably aiming at an average of 25 runs per wicket and below. So even then - you need your captain to keep you on for at least six or seven overs.

It's a hard slog. I suppose so is fast bowling, and wrist spin bowling. Batting is too. But in all honesty, again, drift will not be the silver bullet. Control, flight deception, natural variation (or even intentional variation) are the keys!

 

[Boris]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

Bouncy pitches -- yeah. I remember back in the day when I was just beginning off-spin bowling and I used to rip it large, but I also bounced it too high. How many deliveries would just turn in through the gap but over the stumps. So I totally understand that problem.

I now find that I don't bounce it as much -- at least when I try to bowl the batsman. Perhaps I am bowling on different pitches to back then, but in any case it seems the ball only goes over the stumps 50% rather than all the time now... when I bowl that beauty that beats him perfectly through the gate. Assuming I am bowling on similar wickets -- what was my solution? I just think its speed of delivery. If you bowl it faster, and you can flight it and drop it faster, the ball will get to the stumps before it reaches its maximum height.

Learn to bowl it faster, learn to loop it and flight it at close to the professional speed and the bounce shouldn't be a problem.

Having problems finding ways around a batsman on a bouncy pitch? I reckon... flight it drop it and change it up. If you can stop the batsman scoring on a good wicket, they'll fall for the bait eventually. Keep giving him different angles... i.e. of the arm and on the crease... every so often so that your captain still thinks, and I suppose so too the batsman, you're trying to get him out and looking dangerous. It's really a lot about patience, making subtle changes, changes that beat the batsman.

To highlight the point about patience... Test cricket off spinners have a strike rate of 60+ balls per wicket. Club cricketers should aim to be at about 40 -50... and that's probably aiming at an average of 25 runs per wicket and below. So even then - you need your captain to keep you on for at least six or seven overs.

It's a hard slog. I suppose so is fast bowling, and wrist spin bowling. Batting is too. But in all honesty, again, drift will not be the silver bullet. Control, flight deception, natural variation (or even intentional variation) are the keys!

Thanks mate, heaps for me to work off.

I have training tonight so there's a 50/50 chance of bowling on the bouncy net pitch out of the two very good ones we have, the other will have a bowling machine.

 

[the_socialite]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

hey..anyone on here that knows me will know that i'm a pace bowler and have got as far as i have in my cricket based on that but this season i've been working on my offies, and i think they're ready to be tried in a game. i've always been able to turn the ball, but now i can sort of deliver it accurately now. I also have a doosra of sorts. Anyway, I think i need to develop a toppie, any tips on this?

 

[Boris]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

hey..anyone on here that knows me will know that i'm a pace bowler and have got as far as i have in my cricket based on that but this season i've been working on my offies, and i think they're ready to be tried in a game. i've always been able to turn the ball, but now i can sort of deliver it accurately now. I also have a doosra of sorts. Anyway, I think i need to develop a toppie, any tips on this?

There's a few different methods. I like to base mine off the doosra type ball I deliver.

How would you say you bowl your ball that turns the other way?

 

[the_socialite]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

I bowl it by flicking the ball out with my middle finger, with my middle finger bent and closer to the leg side

 

[Boris]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

I bowl it by flicking the ball out with my middle finger, with my middle finger bent and closer to the leg side

Not the action I was hoping to meld a top spinner from, but not a trouble.

When I bowl the top spinner, this is how it goes?

The standard off spinner's grip is first two fingers holding across the seam, with third finger balancing it there. The thumb is out of the road. It is then released so the seam is on a diagonal so there is top spin and side spin diagonally pointing towards leg slip to the right hander.

When holding this ball the seam should be horizontal across your two fingers to that the seam touches the end joint on the first finger, and then between the end and the middle joint on your second finger.

For the top spinner I point it directly at the middle joint. Then I release straight under the ball in my delivery, trying to get the seam running straight down the pitch. If you get the ball in your hand in that position, then try different ways of getting it to do this you will work your own style out. Just concentrate on getting the seam dead upright.

It helps if you turn your whole body through the action more as well, so you release the ball a little later than usual, but the arm can run straight down the line of the ball and make it easier for that straight spin.

 

[doctortran]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

Big off-break has the hand spinning square from off-side to on-side. Hence naturally, top spinner has the hand generating spin from non-strikers stumps to striker's stumps. Looking down at the ball from a bird's eye position, the top spinner can be achieved by rotating the wrist 90 degrees anti-clockwise....

YouTube - Cloverdale Cricket Masterclass spin bowling tips 2

It's really quite basic for an off-spinner and you should learn it quickly if you have the off-spinner down pat.

The only real problem you could have is... well it might still turn!!! This is caused by having the wrong thumb position. Experimentation is in order!!! However what works for me is to roll the thumb up the back of the ball... up the back of the seam.

 

[doctortran]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

By the way Boris... how has the off-spin been going? Been able to bowl faster, and still flight it???

 

[Boris]

Re: Finger Spin Bowling.

By the way Boris... how has the off-spin been going? Been able to bowl faster, and still flight it???

Well I haven't had much of an opportunity to bowl, the last time was Thursday night training. I always start off with pace to warm me up, but that night I was bowling quite exceptionally well with that so I only got a few offies in. My pace bowling has come along in leaps and bounds so I'm afraid of late that has taken a some priority over the offies.