gym exercises for leg spin bowling?
- Thread starter Jim2109
- Start date
Re: gym exercises for leg spin bowling?
You may be right MV! Unfortunately, as a professional, I do not have the luxury of presumption.
As a trainer (and as a coach), I cannot presume to know what a client's aims and/or goals are. I cannot influence aims, only guide, and certainly cannot even begin to think about goals until a thorough consultation has taken place... and then the goals come from the client... totaly without prejudice. For any goal to work, they need to be agreed/accepted and realistic. We could not possibly know that your suggestions are realistic. Quite often, what a client thinks they want, is not actually what they do want, or can possibly achieve.
I also have the problem of negligence... it would be negligent of me to suggest a programme without knowing whether the client can physically complete it, which is why I go for what I know they can do. You talk about working the thoracic area... for all I know, there could be underlying conditions that prevent this. How would you feel if you suggest an exercise that you know you can do easily but renders the person following your advice paralysed? In this case, my £5m insurance would not cover it.
I do not recommend guys on this forum go to see professionals because we are all members of some secret society; it is because, although this may be the tenth person to ask me about an extremely similar sounding condition, it may not be the same.
As I have mentioned before, there is no such thing as an off the peg programme; what works for one will not necessarily work for another and could possibly cause irreparable damage.
MV!;408419 said:
You may be right MV! Unfortunately, as a professional, I do not have the luxury of presumption.
As a trainer (and as a coach), I cannot presume to know what a client's aims and/or goals are. I cannot influence aims, only guide, and certainly cannot even begin to think about goals until a thorough consultation has taken place... and then the goals come from the client... totaly without prejudice. For any goal to work, they need to be agreed/accepted and realistic. We could not possibly know that your suggestions are realistic. Quite often, what a client thinks they want, is not actually what they do want, or can possibly achieve.
I also have the problem of negligence... it would be negligent of me to suggest a programme without knowing whether the client can physically complete it, which is why I go for what I know they can do. You talk about working the thoracic area... for all I know, there could be underlying conditions that prevent this. How would you feel if you suggest an exercise that you know you can do easily but renders the person following your advice paralysed? In this case, my £5m insurance would not cover it.
I do not recommend guys on this forum go to see professionals because we are all members of some secret society; it is because, although this may be the tenth person to ask me about an extremely similar sounding condition, it may not be the same.
As I have mentioned before, there is no such thing as an off the peg programme; what works for one will not necessarily work for another and could possibly cause irreparable damage.
Re: gym exercises for leg spin bowling?
It is really easy SteveyD and very safe. To make any real difference, you need to be doing this in the morning and in the evening... three times should do it after a warm up. This can be done by just swaying backwards and forwards in position a few times. Make sure your shoulder blades are pushed down into your back pockets.
SteveyD;408528 said:
It is really easy SteveyD and very safe. To make any real difference, you need to be doing this in the morning and in the evening... three times should do it after a warm up. This can be done by just swaying backwards and forwards in position a few times. Make sure your shoulder blades are pushed down into your back pockets.
.thought id update this. i havent really hit the gym too much since i made the thread, i was ill for a week or so and then just really busy. but ive started trying to go at least every other day now and have done a few basic cardio sessions just to get myself going prior to another PT session.
i spoke with someone last week to ask about whether everyone there is a PT, and apparently all of the people that do the 2nd inductions are qualified PT's, but there are only 2 there worth bothering with. I've booked another free session with a PT to get a proper program, unfortunately its not with one of the 2 "good" ones, however one of the supposedly good ones booked me in and didnt suggest any differently even though id said i wasnt happy with my first session. so hopefully this one will work out. i specifically said that i want a strength and conditioning program for cricket, with emphasis on interval training for cardio and free weights for resistance. so we will see what this one comes up with. im just going to keep asking for programs until i get one im happy with lol. il go armed with all of the other suggestions from this thread as well, so if they arent coming out with the right suggestions il question them. they do have a cable machine though.
my cardio workouts are lacking structure, mainly because im still getting a feel for the machines. but i usually do about 10-15 mins on the rowing machine to warm up, starting out gently on 6/10 resistance, upping it to 10/10 after a few mins, and then in the last 5 mins il alternate between pushing really hard for a minute, then slower for a minute, and repeat.
then i do about 15 mins on the cross trainer, although i find this works the upper legs too much and its hard to maintain any kind of solid pace at the moment. i can comfortably get my heart rate upto 160 on it for sustained periods, but i dont really like using it that much, it feels really awkward.
i dont really like running, but ive got the hang of the treadmill now, and i use that for some harder interval work. il do 1 minute at 15 kph (hard running, approaching sprinting), 1 minute at 5 kph (brisk walking), 1 minute at 16 kph, 2 mins at 5kph. and i do 2-3 sets of those for the time being. my heart rate reaches about 175 by the end of the minutes at 15-16 kph and im pretty much at my limit. if i pushed any longer than a minute at a time id probably fall off the machine lol.
sometimes il use the exercise bike for 10-15 mins and work in intervals similar to on the cross trainer (generally 65%/80% HRmax). then i usually finish up with another 10-15 mins on the rowing machine but doing 1 minute flat out, 1 minute complete rest, and im usually pretty much spent by the end of that. stretch out for 10 mins and then go home.
i reckon i can probably increase the reps on the treadmill to 4 sets, maybe more. the end goal is to be able to do this for 30 mins (6 sets). with rowing machine for 15 mins before as a gentle warmup intensifying, and 20 mins after as hard intervals and then a cool down at the end. those are the 2 machines i like the most. sound like its anywhere near close for a starting point? im hoping the PT will be able to advise me better on cardio work when i see them on Tuesday.
i spoke with someone last week to ask about whether everyone there is a PT, and apparently all of the people that do the 2nd inductions are qualified PT's, but there are only 2 there worth bothering with. I've booked another free session with a PT to get a proper program, unfortunately its not with one of the 2 "good" ones, however one of the supposedly good ones booked me in and didnt suggest any differently even though id said i wasnt happy with my first session. so hopefully this one will work out. i specifically said that i want a strength and conditioning program for cricket, with emphasis on interval training for cardio and free weights for resistance. so we will see what this one comes up with. im just going to keep asking for programs until i get one im happy with lol. il go armed with all of the other suggestions from this thread as well, so if they arent coming out with the right suggestions il question them. they do have a cable machine though.
my cardio workouts are lacking structure, mainly because im still getting a feel for the machines. but i usually do about 10-15 mins on the rowing machine to warm up, starting out gently on 6/10 resistance, upping it to 10/10 after a few mins, and then in the last 5 mins il alternate between pushing really hard for a minute, then slower for a minute, and repeat.
then i do about 15 mins on the cross trainer, although i find this works the upper legs too much and its hard to maintain any kind of solid pace at the moment. i can comfortably get my heart rate upto 160 on it for sustained periods, but i dont really like using it that much, it feels really awkward.
i dont really like running, but ive got the hang of the treadmill now, and i use that for some harder interval work. il do 1 minute at 15 kph (hard running, approaching sprinting), 1 minute at 5 kph (brisk walking), 1 minute at 16 kph, 2 mins at 5kph. and i do 2-3 sets of those for the time being. my heart rate reaches about 175 by the end of the minutes at 15-16 kph and im pretty much at my limit. if i pushed any longer than a minute at a time id probably fall off the machine lol.
sometimes il use the exercise bike for 10-15 mins and work in intervals similar to on the cross trainer (generally 65%/80% HRmax). then i usually finish up with another 10-15 mins on the rowing machine but doing 1 minute flat out, 1 minute complete rest, and im usually pretty much spent by the end of that. stretch out for 10 mins and then go home.
i reckon i can probably increase the reps on the treadmill to 4 sets, maybe more. the end goal is to be able to do this for 30 mins (6 sets). with rowing machine for 15 mins before as a gentle warmup intensifying, and 20 mins after as hard intervals and then a cool down at the end. those are the 2 machines i like the most. sound like its anywhere near close for a starting point? im hoping the PT will be able to advise me better on cardio work when i see them on Tuesday.
i had my PT session today and it looks a lot better than the previous one. although i dont really know enough to be sure, but heres what the PT has suggested...
2000m rowing machine warmup
3 sets each of the following:
8 press ups then side planks on either side, then repeat
walking lunges
dumbell hyper extensions w/chest flys
assisted pull ups
step ups w/bicep curls
i dont know the name of the next one, but its kinda like this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfNqNeKHj3Q&feature=related but the legs start at 90 degrees (and never get pulled in to the chest) and i have to hold a medicine ball above my chest with my arms stretched, then lower the medicine ball back behind my head at the same time as lowering the legs. then pull them both back in and repeat (i have to keep my back flat and not arch it up, and its quite hard to do, so il have to see how this one goes, i reckon theres a fairly high risk of injury though if i get it wrong?)
standing upright cable rows
i asked about walking overhead lunges, bulgarian split squats and palloff presses but she said im not really ready for those yet, to work on the above and then add some more advanced stuff in later once my basic strength is improved. i get a free review of my program every 4 weeks i think.
then for my cardio she pretty much agreed with my existing interval setup, but said to try and do 1 min on, 1 min off, with a faster "rest" period, and to work that up to a jog rather than a walk as soon as i can, and extend the duration of the session as and when i can. pretty much what i already had in mind.
i probably need to expand my stretches as well and stretch out more at the end of sessions. at the moment i do about 5 mins, but its probably not really enough, and not stretching enough areas.
2000m rowing machine warmup
3 sets each of the following:
8 press ups then side planks on either side, then repeat
walking lunges
dumbell hyper extensions w/chest flys
assisted pull ups
step ups w/bicep curls
i dont know the name of the next one, but its kinda like this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfNqNeKHj3Q&feature=related but the legs start at 90 degrees (and never get pulled in to the chest) and i have to hold a medicine ball above my chest with my arms stretched, then lower the medicine ball back behind my head at the same time as lowering the legs. then pull them both back in and repeat (i have to keep my back flat and not arch it up, and its quite hard to do, so il have to see how this one goes, i reckon theres a fairly high risk of injury though if i get it wrong?)
standing upright cable rows
i asked about walking overhead lunges, bulgarian split squats and palloff presses but she said im not really ready for those yet, to work on the above and then add some more advanced stuff in later once my basic strength is improved. i get a free review of my program every 4 weeks i think.
then for my cardio she pretty much agreed with my existing interval setup, but said to try and do 1 min on, 1 min off, with a faster "rest" period, and to work that up to a jog rather than a walk as soon as i can, and extend the duration of the session as and when i can. pretty much what i already had in mind.
i probably need to expand my stretches as well and stretch out more at the end of sessions. at the moment i do about 5 mins, but its probably not really enough, and not stretching enough areas.
I can't view videos at work, but the exercise description sounds like "jackknifes" (known by a few names). Bleh.
If you want 100% honest bordering on vitriolic feedback regarding what you posted, here goes... I can't see anything there that is actually going to make you a particularly stronger, better functioning person with higher quality of movement. Especially if this is what you're supposed to be doing however many times a week you train in the gym. I'd also like to know how she came to the conclusion that you're not strong enough to do those other movements? And yet your strong enough to do superset 8 push ups and iso side planks? She seems to have determined that you don't have any hip or ankle mobility or lumbar/ knee dysfunction given the inclusion of jackknifes, hyper extensions, lunges, step ups, so I don't see any reason why you can't be squatting? Step ups with bicep curls also border on my most hated lets-put-two-exercises-in-one-so-people-think-that-i'm-a-super-creative-trainer exercise. Absolutely useless exercise.
The press ups, side planks, lunges and cable rows all have there places in a proper training program and so do pull ups - but not "assisted ones" where the assistance comes from a machine. Overall, I count a four ancillary movements, two useless waste of time personal trainer lets-take-two-acceptable-movements-and-put-them-together-yay-how-smart-are-we exercises (dumbell hyper extensions w/ flys, step up), and one that I personally believe people just shouldn't ever do (jackknifes). Untrained individuals have the best capacity to adapt quickly and make great strength gains when they train right. This isn't training right.
Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have no certification. So this can go two ways: this 'personal trainer' is an example of someone who has done a course, has no real idea of how the human body functions and adapts, and is doing something to get paid... Or she knows something about the hidden benefits of step ups with bicep curls, and figures that somehow doing this movement* will all of a sudden make you - the person who she has determined has no hip or ankle mobility issues or lumbar or knee dysfunction but is so weak that he can not perform a walking lunge with his hands over his head or simple perform a body weight squat - a stronger better functioning person. Considering what you've written here and the fact that you are at least athletic enough to play cricket, tie your shoes in the morning and, i assume, lift up a bottle of milk, I believe that you likely are strong enough to do a body weight squat or walking lunge with your hands raised over your head and likely much more. I personally would go with option 1 - she's a bad personal trainer.
* a movement in which the ancillary movement [bicep curl] will typically fail with an external load well before the main movement [the step up] will be sufficiently stressed for you to make any noticeable adaptations.
signed,
someone that has witnessed 3+ personal trainers instructing people to do things incredibly wrong and very harmful since my last post in this thread and is really, really, really short on patience.
i appreciate the brutal honesty lol. the PT never specifically said i wasnt "strong" enough to do any of the exercises, just that they were "advanced" exercises and that i should start off more simple and add those in later (i made the assumption on strength). but to be honest i can see where she was coming from, it was probably more from a technique point of view, as more technical exercises are a lot easier to do wrong, and doing them wrong will at best make them useless, or at worse give me injuries. once ive mastered more basic variations then moving to more complex ones will be easier. although its not exactly rocket science. i can bowl leg spin, so im damn sure i can pick up a few repetitive movements lol, so i dont necessarily agree with them not being included. i can easily alter my own program and there are plenty of PT's on hand to show me how to do them if i ask.
the "jackknifes" are similar to what im doing having looked at a video, except that the shoulders and back never leave the mat for mine, i have been specifically told that i have to keep my back flat and not allow it to arch up. presumably to work the abs in some way as i struggled at first, but if i really clench my stomach i can keep my back down. i can see this one being dropped pretty quickly because it just feels high risk whilst doing it, nothing about it makes me think its a good idea lol.
but at least half the exercises are useful! better than the first attempt.
with regards the press ups and side planks, are these supposed to be really strenous then? i find them really hard to do, but then im fairly weak so that doesnt surprise me, but i have noticed that my pecs are sore for a few days after.
the assisted pull ups may not be ideal, but i can only do about 2 unassisted so it wouldnt make much sense to bother with them otherwise lol. as soon as i can do them unassisted i will.
any suggestions on 2 or 3 other exercises that would work areas that arent currently being worked, maybe as replacements for the "useless" exercises?
the "jackknifes" are similar to what im doing having looked at a video, except that the shoulders and back never leave the mat for mine, i have been specifically told that i have to keep my back flat and not allow it to arch up. presumably to work the abs in some way as i struggled at first, but if i really clench my stomach i can keep my back down. i can see this one being dropped pretty quickly because it just feels high risk whilst doing it, nothing about it makes me think its a good idea lol.
but at least half the exercises are useful! better than the first attempt.
with regards the press ups and side planks, are these supposed to be really strenous then? i find them really hard to do, but then im fairly weak so that doesnt surprise me, but i have noticed that my pecs are sore for a few days after.
the assisted pull ups may not be ideal, but i can only do about 2 unassisted so it wouldnt make much sense to bother with them otherwise lol. as soon as i can do them unassisted i will.
any suggestions on 2 or 3 other exercises that would work areas that arent currently being worked, maybe as replacements for the "useless" exercises?
Well, you would fall into the 'untrained' category of lifters (easy way to think of it is: untrained -> beginner -> intermediate -> advanced). Because of that, the easiest way for you to make very good and very appreciable progress is to keep your programming as simple as possible.
In the absence of a PT that has the capacity to properly assess you, it may be worth visiting a doctor to find out if you have any mobility/ stability issues. Assuming that you are given a tick for lifting, your immediate focus should be on simply getting stronger. People that fall into the untrained or beginner categories will make greater athletic progress and generally have greater performance gains by simply getting stronger. My second stop after visiting a doctor would be to get a copy of Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe (it's not particularly expensive). It's essentially the bible when it comes to barbell training and will teach you a lot about how to perform the big lifts as well as shedding a hell of a lot of light on what your body is doing and why. The book will teach you how to build the lifts safely - once you know how to do those lifts, you will have a much greater foundation for your lifting. If you can't be bothered doing that, track down a legitimate weightlifting coach that will teach you how to squat, deadlift, bench, and overhead press safely.
Until you have the ability to do that, you'd best be suited rotaing something like the following (obviously this is a cookie cutter routine, but as has been beaten to death, without properly assessing you[which takes more a lot more than a glance and standing on scales], that's impossible - what you should notice, is that there are a lot of mobilisation exercises)(all of these exercises can be seen done right on youtube):
Dynamic warm up - before everywork out:
- Rocking ankle mobilisatios: 1x8 per leg
- Supine Bridges 1x 10
- Kneeling adductor stretch - 1x8 each leg
- Heel to Butt stretch - 1x30sec each leg
- Band Pull aparts 1x8
- No Money drill 1x8
Day One:
A1 Body weight squats (3 sets of 5), A2 Scapular Wall slides (3x8)
B1 Cable pull throughs (3x5), B2 Ankle- Wall mobilisations (8 each side)
C1 Pull ups (5x3) C2 Push ups (4x8)
D1 Standing cable rows (3x8), D2 Pallof press (3x3 each side, hold at lockout for 5 seconds)
Day Two:
A1 Body weight squats (3x5), A2 Heel to butt stretch (2x30 seconds)
B1 Dumbbell Step ups (3x8 per leg), B2 Reverse lunges (3x6 each side)
C1 Alternating dumbbell bench press (3x 5 each side), C2 Chin ups (5x3)
D1 Inverted Rows[or sub for a seated row variation] (3x8) D2 Prone Hold[/planks] (3x30 seconds)
A1, A2 means superset. Do your squats, short rest, do your wall slides, small rest, squats, etc. In instances like Day two, B1, b2, Do your 8 step ups with right leg, rest, left leg, rest, reverse lunge with your right, rest, reverse lunge with your left, rest.
To be totally honest, with things like the chins and pull ups, it doesn't matter if you can only do two. Two free chins are better than 10 machine assisted chins. Do your pull/ chin ups to failure; then do jumping pull/ chin ups; then do negative pull ups/ chins. You will see jumps in your pull/ chin up capacity far quicker that way. Promise.
In terms of adding weight: If you can perform a movement across sets with good technique, it's time to move up. For body weight squats, that would mean starting without weights; grabbing 1kg dumbbells the next, 2kgs the next, etc.
Doing something like the above would be a much a better use for your time while you do the first few steps (get a hold of starting strength, keep your eye out for a good coach, track down a good PT, etc).
In the absence of a PT that has the capacity to properly assess you, it may be worth visiting a doctor to find out if you have any mobility/ stability issues. Assuming that you are given a tick for lifting, your immediate focus should be on simply getting stronger. People that fall into the untrained or beginner categories will make greater athletic progress and generally have greater performance gains by simply getting stronger. My second stop after visiting a doctor would be to get a copy of Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe (it's not particularly expensive). It's essentially the bible when it comes to barbell training and will teach you a lot about how to perform the big lifts as well as shedding a hell of a lot of light on what your body is doing and why. The book will teach you how to build the lifts safely - once you know how to do those lifts, you will have a much greater foundation for your lifting. If you can't be bothered doing that, track down a legitimate weightlifting coach that will teach you how to squat, deadlift, bench, and overhead press safely.
Until you have the ability to do that, you'd best be suited rotaing something like the following (obviously this is a cookie cutter routine, but as has been beaten to death, without properly assessing you[which takes more a lot more than a glance and standing on scales], that's impossible - what you should notice, is that there are a lot of mobilisation exercises)(all of these exercises can be seen done right on youtube):
Dynamic warm up - before everywork out:
- Rocking ankle mobilisatios: 1x8 per leg
- Supine Bridges 1x 10
- Kneeling adductor stretch - 1x8 each leg
- Heel to Butt stretch - 1x30sec each leg
- Band Pull aparts 1x8
- No Money drill 1x8
Day One:
A1 Body weight squats (3 sets of 5), A2 Scapular Wall slides (3x8)
B1 Cable pull throughs (3x5), B2 Ankle- Wall mobilisations (8 each side)
C1 Pull ups (5x3) C2 Push ups (4x8)
D1 Standing cable rows (3x8), D2 Pallof press (3x3 each side, hold at lockout for 5 seconds)
Day Two:
A1 Body weight squats (3x5), A2 Heel to butt stretch (2x30 seconds)
B1 Dumbbell Step ups (3x8 per leg), B2 Reverse lunges (3x6 each side)
C1 Alternating dumbbell bench press (3x 5 each side), C2 Chin ups (5x3)
D1 Inverted Rows[or sub for a seated row variation] (3x8) D2 Prone Hold[/planks] (3x30 seconds)
A1, A2 means superset. Do your squats, short rest, do your wall slides, small rest, squats, etc. In instances like Day two, B1, b2, Do your 8 step ups with right leg, rest, left leg, rest, reverse lunge with your right, rest, reverse lunge with your left, rest.
To be totally honest, with things like the chins and pull ups, it doesn't matter if you can only do two. Two free chins are better than 10 machine assisted chins. Do your pull/ chin ups to failure; then do jumping pull/ chin ups; then do negative pull ups/ chins. You will see jumps in your pull/ chin up capacity far quicker that way. Promise.
In terms of adding weight: If you can perform a movement across sets with good technique, it's time to move up. For body weight squats, that would mean starting without weights; grabbing 1kg dumbbells the next, 2kgs the next, etc.
Doing something like the above would be a much a better use for your time while you do the first few steps (get a hold of starting strength, keep your eye out for a good coach, track down a good PT, etc).
MV! - many thanks for the training program suggested above. I figured a few things in there are probably quite high risk if I have any issues with knees, hips, etc, so I went to see a sports therapist today to get checked over before commencing it. You'll be glad to know that he thought it was a very good program for me to start out with and then look to build from. I have a couple of issues though that have led to some of the exercises being swapped for more suitable ones. So I am glad I sought professional advice in person first, as obviously everyone is different and has different requirements.
The issues I've got are a Scoliosis in my spine because of my bowling and my right shoulder being so much more used than the left. I've got to do seated row variations and reverse dumbbell flyes to fix the imbalance, with the alternating dumbbell bench press as a superset with the latter. My inner upper leg muscles are too weak and this is causing the knee to move outwards or something, so I've got some leg raises to do at home whilst watching TV or whatever to sort that out and balance those muscles. And my core is very weak, especially my obliques, so I've got plank/side plank supersets on a vibroplate to sort that.
Then because of the lack of core strength in combination with the knee issue I am not to do any regular squats at all. Instead I've got to do Bulgarian split squats with bodyweight to begin as my core is too weak to hold a proper squat without bending my back or leaning over my knees, whereas the split squats are more balanced so remove this risk. Then I can progress to holding weights as soon as I've got the technique sussed and can physically lift the weight.
At least I have a solid program to work on now, and I'm aware of my issues that I need to work on. All of which are contributing to flaws in my bowling action. So hopefully I will see big improvements right across my game with the gym work over the next few months I also don't have to stop playing cricket because of any of these issues, I just need to work on them to ensure they get resolved before they cause more serious injuries.
Thanks to all those who have contributed thus far with advice, its greatly appreciated.
The issues I've got are a Scoliosis in my spine because of my bowling and my right shoulder being so much more used than the left. I've got to do seated row variations and reverse dumbbell flyes to fix the imbalance, with the alternating dumbbell bench press as a superset with the latter. My inner upper leg muscles are too weak and this is causing the knee to move outwards or something, so I've got some leg raises to do at home whilst watching TV or whatever to sort that out and balance those muscles. And my core is very weak, especially my obliques, so I've got plank/side plank supersets on a vibroplate to sort that.
Then because of the lack of core strength in combination with the knee issue I am not to do any regular squats at all. Instead I've got to do Bulgarian split squats with bodyweight to begin as my core is too weak to hold a proper squat without bending my back or leaning over my knees, whereas the split squats are more balanced so remove this risk. Then I can progress to holding weights as soon as I've got the technique sussed and can physically lift the weight.
At least I have a solid program to work on now, and I'm aware of my issues that I need to work on. All of which are contributing to flaws in my bowling action. So hopefully I will see big improvements right across my game with the gym work over the next few months
I also don't have to stop playing cricket because of any of these issues, I just need to work on them to ensure they get resolved before they cause more serious injuries.Thanks to all those who have contributed thus far with advice, its greatly appreciated.