Hey, Leggies!

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Re: Hey, Leggies!

if you can exert that much control over the ball and get it on a line and lenghth I think you should seriously consider coming over to this side. In simplistic terms you're right it's the door knob technique, but it sounds like you're doing okay with the wrist flick that you've got. If you can bowl the ball with Leg-spin with the seam rotating 90 degrees to the direction of flight you're already a better leggie than me if you could get it to land in the right places.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Boris;400310 said:
Thanks for those.

With the leg break, are you still 'opening the door knob'? The way I have bowled in the past very roughly has been quite different. To explain my delivery I start with my wrist as far down as it goes, as if I were trying to touch the bottom of my forearm with my fingers. Then I snap it right back so my wrist goes from right angle to opposing right angle. This means the ball is spinning across the seam and getting a bucket load of spin, although the accuracy is quite wayward and top spin is nil.

Which leads me to another question. With the conventional off break you want a little bit of top spin on everything, to cause the dip, then turn. Is this wanted for a leg break or do you just impart straight side spin on the ball?
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Pure sidespin although looks great out of the hand, is rarely effective. Most deliveries have some amount of topspin on them.
Young spinners are told to have the seam point in the direction of slips or third man, not to point. So that you get some bounce and like you said, dip and drift.
But the major problem with only side spin is that on surfaces like mat, astroturf or drop in pitches, a ball purely on side spin may just skid off the surface.
I've rafely seen leggies in internationals bowl purely sidespin.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

shrek;400353 said:
Pure sidespin although looks great out of the hand, is rarely effective. Most deliveries have some amount of topspin on them.
Young spinners are told to have the seam point in the direction of slips or third man, not to point. So that you get some bounce and like you said, dip and drift.
But the major problem with only side spin is that on surfaces like mat, astroturf or drop in pitches, a ball purely on side spin may just skid off the surface.
I've rafely seen leggies in internationals bowl purely sidespin.
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most leggies have a stock ball with overspin. but Shane Warne regularly used pure side spin to excellent effect. the ball that bowled Andrew Strauss in 2005 was complete side spin into a rough area well outside his off stump.

ultimately backspin is more effective for the big leg break though, and has less of a tendancy to skid on. presenting the seam perfectly upright with 100% sidespin is the hardest possible delivery, with over/back spin you have a larger margin for error as a scrambled or tilted seam is far more likely to make contact with the pitch at these angles.

a lot of youngsters get taught to bowl top spin first. its easier to be accurate with top spin, whilst developing your action. and most youngsters lack the patience and foresight to stick at leg spin if they are wildly inaccurate and inconsistent (especially if their idiot seamer mates give them grief about their bowling, which ive witnessed first hand unfortunately). then they add side spin later. but the pure side spin delivery is the ultimate slow-mo highlight reel leg break.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Boris;400310 said:
Which leads me to another question. With the conventional off break you want a little bit of top spin on everything, to cause the dip, then turn. Is this wanted for a leg break or do you just impart straight side spin on the ball?
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Most stock legbreaks have varying amounts of topspin, just like offspin. It gives your bowling the dip and zip.

Here is my young bloke having a bowl on the way to indoor the other night. YouTube - legspin-topspin.wmv Here he puts a lot of topspin on his legbreak. It doesn't drift as much as his big spinner but the topspin gives the ball good drop, nip off the deck and a bit of fast sidespin.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

I think if you can release the ball with total side-spin you've reached a particular goal with your bowling. It strikes me that it's then far easier to modify the angle so as to put more top-spin on, but with the ability to bowl with the side-spin you've just got far more options? As Jim point out if there's some rough to bowl into with side-spin you've got increased potential. Also with the side-spin as someone esle pointed out they often go straight if the angle of the seam isn't straight and that can be an advantage surely?
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

I actually find it a lot easier to put complete sidespin on the ball. Both myself and those facing me say I have very little topspin at all, and I can't work out how to get any, I think as a result of my grip.

I got about 10 balls into today before it rained, and the winter (not that you guys would exactly call it winter) doesn't exactly add up well with hard balls. Also bowling in the nets with all the soccer people around is really annoying :D

I can't get the hang of the grip that I have seen on videos and been told. I run the seam straight down my ring finger and into my palm, then release it with a big wrist flick so that the ball spins straight sideways, and the seam barely wobbles in the air.

While I was down there I was going to get a video, but obviously didn't get the time.

So instead to show you my grip here's a photo:

Picture001.jpg


And this is the general action of the wrist (not very good, but it shows the general idea) when coming at the batsman:

YouTube - Close Up of Leg Spin Wrist Action

These combined mean the ball spins with complete side spin. I don't move my fingers at all and the ball just comes out the side of the hand. How right is this?

My grip is nothing like what I've been told, and after a while it hurts my wrist to bowl, but that's the way I've just picked the ball up and threw one down for fun, and it brings a surprising amount of spin.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

by the sounds of it then you are basically using a googly-like action, but rolling the ball off the ends of your fingers at release rather than using the full power of the fingers to impart the spin. it might work, but i dare say ultimately youll be short on revs and put unneccesary strain on your wrist.

however the above method does open you up to a few interesting variation possibilities, but i think you may benefit from trying to adopt the conventional leg spin grip. youll always struggle for top spin, and without top spin youre just an off spinner with a weird doosra. its the ability to go around the loop that makes leg spin so prolific.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Gave this a go - didn't quite remember the grip. It looked okay with a really flighted ball, but putting a little more ooomph behind it and it didn't work. I may try it again and see if there's some middle ground. What was more interesting was that frustrated that it didn't work I went back to bowling with the big flick which it comes out right will do the same thing. The frustrating thing is I can bowl with the big flick and get it up there and at good speed with good accuracy, but the subtlety required to get the right seam presentation is feeling like the last piece of the jigsaw puzzle. Recently I'd taken the foot off the accelerator with trying to suss the biggun, but this evening the ease at which I was able to rip the ball off the fingers and get it on a line and length was surprisingly easy, all I've got to over-come is the wrist angle. I do believe it is there somewhere -I've just got to keep practicing.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Still raining too much...

The best way to describe my action is that I'm solely spinning the ball with my wrist, my hand stays still throughout.

I can get a decent amount of turn with it, from pitching just outside leg stump (to RHB) and being able to beat the bat on the off side. It gets little flight though, barely any drift and it skids quite a bit, being pure side spin there is no great amount of bounce.

It is accurate though. In the little I have bowled they have mostly landed where I want them to and I haven't found it that difficult to land them, I have actually found my big turning off break harder to bowl, but of course the downside is that it hasn't been too troubling to the batsmen.

Now that I look at it it is very much an 'off spin' version of a leg spinner. Not worried too much about variations, worried about accuracy and turn, also being able to vary the amount of spin (just flick less for less spin). Not worried as much about flight, although it's helpful and if you do pull off a variation it's normally pretty good. Also from just chucking a couple in the driveway a wrong un is just about as hard as a doosra with this method, and the top spinner is inaccurate.

So I think it's best I put this grip away, or even better still keep it as a variation in itself. Who knows, maybe I will trouble someone with this as a surprise.

Back to basics now.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Boris;400509 said:
The best way to describe my action is that I'm solely spinning the ball with my wrist, my hand stays still throughout.
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Hey Boris, you mad peanut bender you, WTF is that ? maybe you should take up the discus or frisbee.

Looking at that grip I have new name for you " the craw", not craw "craw".

Go the Blues.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

macca;400528 said:
Hey Boris, you mad peanut bender you, WTF is that ? maybe you should take up the discus or frisbee.

Looking at that grip I have new name for you " the craw", not craw "craw".

Go the Blues.
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Thanks for the inciting post and the hours you spent putting that together.

Big help.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Boris;400572 said:
Big help
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Dont mention it Boris.

I should have been like you and stuck a happy face there to let everyone know i was joking. You can get away with anything that way, eh Boris?

As far as your googly goes I'll have to wait to the movie comes out because I cant work out what your are up to from the photo.

But you can just about bowl anything as a rare variation.

You may, one day, be called on to bowl a long spell of your offspin. After several hours of toil at the bowling crease you find you have taken no wickets and the opposing batsman are scoring off every ball you serve up. Then, and only then, should you try your "mystery ball".

You will have to come up with a name for your creation. You obviously dont like my suggestion, "the craw".
,
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Interesting grip, will have to have a go at nets tonight with that!

The Craw sounds like an awesome name for a ball
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

It's almost like England here at the moment, it has rained on and off for a week. Will get to the nets sometime soon.

Just bowling in the backyard with the proper grip has brought up an interesting issue.

A few years back I broke my hand in a bit of a 'tussle' during a rugby league match, and has left my right hand a little bit different to the usual hand. Seems to be the biggest reason for my grip now that I try the actual grip, feels quite uncomfortable, can feel a bit of bone on bone scraping. It's fine with all other sorts of bowling (which I seem to do all of), just gets in the road a little. Not sure what to do about this.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

someblokecalleddave;400817 said:
Bone scraping doesn't sound healthy - is this with the 2 up 2 down grip conventional grip?
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Not sure what 2 up 2 down means exactly, but the conventional grip you have shown me on this thread.

I'm going to see a doctor again about the annoyance my hand gives me occasionally, but it's nothing too bad. I have been told arthritis is very possible, and at a young age. It's only in my pinky finger though, but when using this grip it sort of compresses the hand and the offset bone seems to clash with the one next to it. Doesn't hurt, just that 'unnatural' feeling that makes you feel a little queasy. Nothing can really be done, they thought about setting it when it was broken, but said it shouldn't bother me in later life, but I guess they were wrong. Just reaching for the backspace on the keyboard tends to feel a bit of clash between the two bones.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Boris;400820 said:
Not sure what 2 up 2 down means exactly, but the conventional grip you have shown me on this thread.

I'm going to see a doctor again about the annoyance my hand gives me occasionally, but it's nothing too bad. I have been told arthritis is very possible, and at a young age. It's only in my pinky finger though, but when using this grip it sort of compresses the hand and the offset bone seems to clash with the one next to it. Doesn't hurt, just that 'unnatural' feeling that makes you feel a little queasy. Nothing can really be done, they thought about setting it when it was broken, but said it shouldn't bother me in later life, but I guess they were wrong. Just reaching for the backspace on the keyboard tends to feel a bit of clash between the two bones.
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like this - Spin bowling-Legbreak

So is it just a case of the bone grinding together when you bend the little finger?

Oh yeah your winter - you need a reality check Wrist Spin Bowling: And still more snow................ - now that's winter:)
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

It was pretty cold today, the max was only 25 degrees celcius :p

The bone I broke is the one in the hand directly under the pinky finger, right near the joint. It's colloquially called the 'boxers break', and the bone has healed so that it bends inward toward the bone underneath the ring finger.

meta5car.jpg


It's like this, except when it broke the bottom part of the bone went inwards, so it has now healed with a bit of V facing outwards. There's a noticeably deformity to the bone now, so when I hold the ball as such:

Bowling+Small+Leg+Break.jpg


See where the pinky rests underneath the ring finger? My pinky faces inwards more and the middle joint points out more, I can't get it in further without physically pushing it. This then means it pushes that 'V' into the bone next to it, and then when it moves it sort of clicks across it, not the best feeling as you could imagine.

Going to have to improvise a little it looks like.
 
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