How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

Top Contributors
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

a for effort;362118 said:
Not sure whether Brad Hodge would be the most objective commentator on the matter, and by that I mean he is probably the least objective person on the planet.

He probably should have played a lot more international cricket, true, but his peak was in the era of Langer,Hayden,Ponting,Martyn,Waugh,Waugh etc so spots were a lot harder to come by. When you are as far above everybody else as Australia was in his era, you can't really fault the selectors.

He has almost become a self-parody now with his bitterness about the selectors every time he goes near a microphone. I can imagine him calling up the Herald Sun sports editor every so often and saying "Hey mate I'm ready to bag out the selectors for not picking me again, think you make it fly?"

There may well be, and probably is, politics in the Australian selectors room, but I would be a lot more inclined to believe someone who hasn't got a vested interest in making them look bad.

Also, Brad Hodge's conduct over the last few years has made it so he could make 3000 runs next season and I would be closer to selection than him.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I totally agree.

Personally, a few of my mates have met the bloke (my mates are juniors by the way), and he has been very arrogant. I have also heard that he doesn't have a very good team attitude.

Bagging the selectors every time he touches a microphone hasn't helped his chances.
 
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

the suggestion to change failed pace bowlers into spinners simply serves to re-enforce the main problem with spin in this country- it is viewed as the poor relation of cricket. there are plenty of kids who get out there on the weekend and try to learn the delicate art. some will be wrist spinners and some will be finger spinners. some will do better than others. the finger spinner will drop out first because, for a country that fails so spectacularly against it so regularly, we have absolutely no respect for it. the wrist spinner will continue a bit longer but the disadvantages will slowly drive them away.
what disadvantages? safety rules will mean that 99% of his attacking positions are ruled out; the bias towards a wicket taker will mean that he HAS to trade runs for a wicket- and nobody likes getting tonked; there is less opportunity for advancement- no matter how good he is.
plus there is the broader problem of bat versus ball in all grades. as long as the grade clubs continue to produce pitches that reward the batsmen then there will be a steady drop off of bowling talent. several Perth clubs could drop a concrete block into the middle of their grounds for all the help the bowler gets from their pitches.
 
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

bren122;362543 said:
the suggestion to change failed pace bowlers into spinners simply serves to re-enforce the main problem with spin in this country- it is viewed as the poor relation of cricket. there are plenty of kids who get out there on the weekend and try to learn the delicate art. some will be wrist spinners and some will be finger spinners. some will do better than others. the finger spinner will drop out first because, for a country that fails so spectacularly against it so regularly, we have absolutely no respect for it. the wrist spinner will continue a bit longer but the disadvantages will slowly drive them away.
what disadvantages? safety rules will mean that 99% of his attacking positions are ruled out; the bias towards a wicket taker will mean that he HAS to trade runs for a wicket- and nobody likes getting tonked; there is less opportunity for advancement- no matter how good he is.
plus there is the broader problem of bat versus ball in all grades. as long as the grade clubs continue to produce pitches that reward the batsmen then there will be a steady drop off of bowling talent. several Perth clubs could drop a concrete block into the middle of their grounds for all the help the bowler gets from their pitches.
Click to expand...

your right, and thats the problem, i was a semi talented quick as a junior (at club level) and when i was around 20 i started bowling unconventional leg breaks and unconventionall being an understatement, i practiced for week after week and i eventually got them to the stage where id be willing to confront any batsman (club level), i called them "trippers" i could get very high revs on the ball with say around 80% side spin and 20 back spin and they were quick, i only ever bowled them to my mates in the nets or at indoor cricket and they were much more of a weapon then my medium pacers, my variation ball was poor though (easy to pick top spinner) i lost the delivery when i gave cricket up when i was around 24, i can still bowl them but not with anywhere near the same venom as i used to, my point is if i could do it so could a lot of other kids.
 
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

I've been practising a bit of spin lately after I bowl about 5 overs of pace at the nets, and I must say I've been landing them quite well. Until about 10 balls into spin yesterday, then I couldn't hit the pitch.

I think the thing with young wrist spinners is that it's hard to get them accurate, and it takes a lot of practice, which turns them to either finger spinners or pace bowlers, and as you said, the finger spinner isn't respected enough.
 
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

breeno;362602 said:
I've been practising a bit of spin lately after I bowl about 5 overs of pace at the nets, and I must say I've been landing them quite well. Until about 10 balls into spin yesterday, then I couldn't hit the pitch.

I think the thing with young wrist spinners is that it's hard to get them accurate, and it takes a lot of practice, which turns them to either finger spinners or pace bowlers, and as you said, the finger spinner isn't respected enough.
Click to expand...

the thing ive noticed about wrist spin is how tiring it is, much more tiring then bowling medium pacers IMO, so fitness and practice is the key.
 
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

as a finger spinner who often got passed over for a wrist spinner- i hate wrist spinners and the harder it is the more i like the sound of it, LOL
seriously though; DoP, i bet the one reason why you never tried them in a game is because nobody took them seriously no matter how good they were. and that's my point- you can turn all the would be medium pacers into spinners you want to but when they become spinners- especially the juniors where, like i said, 99% of their attacking positions in the field are simply not there- then people have to redefine the measure of success for them or else they are going to be forced to buy wickets to be taken even half seriously. as long as it is legal, any delivery that will fool the batsman is a good one. why does it have to be absolutely text book? when it comes to spin i think it is mostly because there is that bias in the first place.
and we really need to get away from that whole one spinner per side scenario. that's the same as saying one fast bowler per side. if you have two guys hurling them down at 100 mph you're going to pick both. why we didn't pick MacGill more often and not save him up for the spin friendly wickets, especially given some of the performances of the third paceman in some of these attacks, just amazes me.
the one thing i have noticed about spinners in junior ranks is that they get used to speed up the over rate which then undermines their technique by turning them into slow bowlers because they don't set themselves properly. this is particularly important for wrist spinners where technique in the spinning is more than half the art; finger spinners need the nuances of flight. neither of them can learn that when they are trying to push through five overs quickly to make up for the speedsters.

just as a side note- why don't we do more with the true medium pacer? i know of at least one kid in our local club contest who takes a packet of wickets using true medium pace but the local grade club don't want a bar of him and the association rep sides keep leaving him out. i am not saying he is going to play test cricket, he is not playing against top opposition so it is hard to judge how well he would do, but given some of his performances it does seem a shame he can't at least be given a try.
 
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

bren122;362686 said:
as a finger spinner who often got passed over for a wrist spinner- i hate wrist spinners and the harder it is the more i like the sound of it, LOL
seriously though; DoP, i bet the one reason why you never tried them in a game is because nobody took them seriously no matter how good they were. and that's my point- you can turn all the would be medium pacers into spinners you want to but when they become spinners- especially the juniors where, like i said, 99% of their attacking positions in the field are simply not there- then people have to redefine the measure of success for them or else they are going to be forced to buy wickets to be taken even half seriously. as long as it is legal, any delivery that will fool the batsman is a good one. why does it have to be absolutely text book? when it comes to spin i think it is mostly because there is that bias in the first place.
and we really need to get away from that whole one spinner per side scenario. that's the same as saying one fast bowler per side. if you have two guys hurling them down at 100 mph you're going to pick both. why we didn't pick MacGill more often and not save him up for the spin friendly wickets, especially given some of the performances of the third paceman in some of these attacks, just amazes me.
the one thing i have noticed about spinners in junior ranks is that they get used to speed up the over rate which then undermines their technique by turning them into slow bowlers because they don't set themselves properly. this is particularly important for wrist spinners where technique in the spinning is more than half the art; finger spinners need the nuances of flight. neither of them can learn that when they are trying to push through five overs quickly to make up for the speedsters.

just as a side note- why don't we do more with the true medium pacer? i know of at least one kid in our local club contest who takes a packet of wickets using true medium pace but the local grade club don't want a bar of him and the association rep sides keep leaving him out. i am not saying he is going to play test cricket, he is not playing against top opposition so it is hard to judge how well he would do, but given some of his performances it does seem a shame he can't at least be given a try.
Click to expand...

i think nowdays a true medium pacer has to be super talented like a mchrath, mcgrath was only medium, quickish medium but still medium, with the pitches of today favouring batting more and more true pace is needed for seam bowling on the majority of pitches, we just dont see green tops anymore.
 
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

People seem to lose all logic when the Ashes is on. Some of the articles that I have read in the past week have been, to a word, wierd.

I always knew Dean Jones wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but for him to come out and say they should give the captainicy to Warne for 2 years was the height of stupidity. Warne is long retired, can we not move on?

The public seem to think that we have a god-given right to hold the Ashes, fact is, in a 2 horse race there will be a loser and a winner.

Our bowling attack was one of the most inexperienced to leave these shores, its always going to be a massive ask to expect these guys to hit their straps in conditions which are relatively foreign to them. Not to mention the duke ball - Peter Siddle said he struggled to grip the ball.

South Africa has very similar environmental and climatic conditions to australia, therefore the pitchs are very similar. Our success there earlier in the year was mainly due to this fact.

People are always ragging on about Ponting's captainicy, for what its worth, if you want to change captains then you have to be absolutely certain that the guy who will take over the role is going to be better then the guy leaving. Because there is no turning back once you sack a captain and replace him.

For mine Ponting has all the right attributes to lead a side that is rebuilding. He leads the way, until Clarke decides to take more maturity in the batting lineup then I dont think he should even be considered for the captainicy.

The Australian public also better get used to the fact that we are no longer #1. The winning days are over, at least for the time being.

I can't put any reason on why we lost the ashes, overall I think losing the toss on that wicket made it very hard. We also had an inexperienced side.

But we didnt get smashed, yes we didnt win, but the Ashes are not like grand finals. Some AFL teams havent played off in a grand final for 20+ years. The Ashes come around every 2 years, the next series is just 13 or so months away.

There is no point sitting around and over-analyzing what happend. Cricket in some respects is a game of millimetres and chance.

Our time will come.
 
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

el-capitano;362149 said:
This is getting totally off topic- but please........... :rolleyes:



You're in the West Indies- if you can't find anything to so as a single lad- there's something wrong with YOU- not the fact that wives and girlfriends can come along! :shakes head:
Click to expand...


when your on an aust cricket touring team, ya cant exactly go out and find things to do,wake up to ya self.:confused:
 
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

The one thing in Pontings favour is there is no one to take over as captain yet
 
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

there seems to be a lot of talk about the difference between the Duke and the Kookaburra; why not buy a couple dozen Dukes and practice with them before they leave Australia. as i see it they would be adjusted to the ball before they have to adjust to the conditions. or is that being naive?
 
Re: How we lost the Ashes & How to fix it.

This is not the same side of years ago, public struggling to come to grips with that.

In Ponting's defence, not one media 'expert' has mentioned the last series after the 2005 defeat in England. 5-0, plus the miraculous second match at Adelaide.

Warne would of wrapped up Cardiff with ease...no Warne.

McGrath best figs are at Lord's due to the slope and ability to hit the spot and the ball keeping low....only bowler in our squad capable of that discipline was not selected until Headingley.

Johnson was persisted with when, last UK series, another fast bowler was dropped for good but their was no adequate reserve, Kaspa did okay, but Tait is nothing but a T20 bowler.

Summary: Australia are not the same team of years past, but they have now played the same series twice, meaning that mistakes of 05 were repeated in 09.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top