Leg Spin

Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Contributors
Re: Leg Spin

dodgylegspinner said:
On another note, I have been looking at the the wrist spin book Dave recommended and it looks like besides have an odd run up and delivery and I am also spinning the ball unorthodoxly as I use my second or middle finger rather the orthodox third finger to impart spin. Does any one else spin it this way or are they doing it the text book way? Are there any disadvantages that you can see?
Click to expand...

I think in the book old matey boy (Philpott) says that if you've got slightly unorthodox grips and techniques not to get too hung up on them if you're still getting it to spin - so unless it's a fundamental problem I would worry dodgy.

No my attempts at trying the back spin thing haven't panned out as I was hoping they would either. The weird thing is practicing on tarmac roads they were working perfectly and then this Sunday I bowled like a Badger! I'm not giving up though yet - I'll get out there soon and put some hours in and make it happen.
 
Re: Leg Spin

LewisQ said:
Thanks for the welcome and input, Dave!


However, my theory is that my flipper is turning because my fingers are more involved in the action. Perhaps as wrist-spinners we sometimes neglect to involve our fingers sufficiently? I know my leg-break basically involves an ill-timed flick of the wrist on release.

I've found that leaving my thumb off the ball assists my accuracy greatly (I know it works the other way for some.) My thumb tends to drag the delivery towards the off-side.
Click to expand...

Lewis I think you've got to get your last 2 fingers involved, they drag down across the ball as they leave the ball accelerating the spin.

Yeah I'm not 100% what the involvement of the thumb does, but I also bowl slightly differently with the thumb off the ball.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Dodgy i also spin the ball with my middle finger i find i get a better line than when spinning with my ring finger.Apparently Jack Iverson and Gleeson bowled by flicking the ball with their middle finger, and the former had a short but very successful test career. Kumble also bowls one of his Googlies with his thumb and 1st finger. Some questions now:
1) Do you bowl the flipper like Jenner says i.e. thumb under and fore and middle fingers over the ball. I feel more comfortable with thumb under and other 4 fingers over the ball. My flipper when well directed keeps low with backspin and sometimes tends to move towards leg stump like a small off break probably because the seam is not directly towards the batsman but slightly tilted. Must be my inflexible wrist.

2) I also tend to bowl too short and am open to be cut and pulled. Rarely bowl a full toss no matter how much oomph i try to put into the run up, delivery and follow through. Could be as i get too much topspin as opposed to sidespin. I am slightly younger than DAVE the bloke Grimmet, how can i increase the length i bowl.

3) On delivery do you look at where you are bowling. I tend to bowl looking up at my bowling hand ala paul adams. I have to really remind myself to look forward as it does not come naturally to me.

4) In philpott's book there is no mention of where the shiny side of the ball should face. It probably would not make a difference when bowling side or top spin but with BACKspin it may help the ball swing a teeny weeny bit.
 
Re: Leg Spin

mysteryspinner said:
3) On delivery do you look at where you are bowling. I tend to bowl looking up at my bowling hand ala paul adams. I have to really remind myself to look forward as it does not come naturally to me.
Click to expand...

On point 3 I think I've read that Benaud used to be really specific with his aim "Picking a particular grass blade or daisy to aim at" (Or something along those lines). I find it affective to do this and again it comes down to Philpotts concentration aspect. If I just chuck them up that way anything can happen, whereas if I pitch the ball into a specific area it's going to mean I'm selecting the length at which I'm bowling. I use coloured markers (Lucozade bottle tops which are flourescent orange) and try and hit them when I practice. Try that and see how you get on?


Is the "Dave the Bloke Grimmet" a reference to the fact that I'm an old git"? :laugh:
 
Re: Leg Spin

i'm another one that spins with my middle finger though i do actually bowl with an orthodox grip if i want to get a little less spin.

I only use my thumb when i am using a flipper( or one of its variations) and have an orthodox grip, though having my thumb on the ball seems to have no effect apart from being less comfortable.

Mysteryspinner if you want to increase the length a bit you could try a slightly higher arm action, or try standing taller.
Me on the other hand have trouble not to bowl to full being 6ft 3" it is easy for me to bowl fuller. I seem to be pretty orthodox though i really don't concentrate when i come into bowl, rather relax instead, though i don't follow through virtually at all
 
Re: Leg Spin

Yeah - I have follow through problems as well and they're at the root of my bowling being so slow apparently. I don't follow through with the hips or something. It's all too much to be thinking about driving the hips when you're trying to land a ball on a daisy and make it turn either left or right and not get batted out of the park. It's something I'll look at later in the season once I've got all my variations in order.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Got my first wicket! :D

Bowled 2 8-ball overs last night, which were absolute rubbish. The pitch didn't help much, as it was on a bit of a slope across the wicket, and unfortunately I got the end that was sloping from off down to leg, meaning that I was effectively trying to turn it up the slope and failing miserably. Worse was the fact I was bowling way too short. There were a couple of good balls, one of which (as it happens it was an off-break) completely beat the batsman and somehow pitched on off and went milimetres over leg stump. Anyway, I kept working away on the flight and speed and eventually after a couple of very close chances (twice the ball dropped a couple yards short of a fielder) the batsman spooned one straight up in the air to short leg, where one of our less natural fielders was standing. I don't mind admitting my heart was in my mouth when I saw who was under it, but all credit to the guy, he held on to it well!

I can't remember my figures, but I don't think they were anything special - I'm just pleased to get my first wicket, even if I didn't deserve it!
 
Re: Leg Spin

Mystery:

1) I bowl my flipper mainly with my index finger by running it under the ball so its basically a cutter. I grip the ball quite loosely when I intent to bowl it and always bowl it flat. I do use my thumb for my googly sometimes.

2) A good way to bowl a fuller length is to make sure that you start with the ball above your head when you start rotating your arm, so you arm rotates 360 degrees. The momentum will help make your deliveries fuller.

3) I look at where I want to pitch the ball when I bowl. I think I have a conventional legspinning action, just that I use my middle finger. Like Gundalf I feel more in control of the ball with this grip. I used to look at my hand when I first started out but it doesnt offer any benefit as my line was erratic - maybe thats why you end up bowling short. As Dave says its all to do with concentration and if you focus on where you want to pitch the ball most of the time it will actually land close to where you want.
 
Re: Leg Spin

dodgylegspinner said:
Mystery:



2) A good way to bowl a fuller length is to make sure that you start with the ball above your head when you start rotating your arm, so you arm rotates 360 degrees. The momentum will help make your deliveries fuller.
Click to expand...

This is interesting - I take you mean the hand with the ball in you start with it in a high position above head height?
 
Re: Leg Spin

Oh yes, 2 days before my comeback and i've finally cracked the one which slows up.

In the nets earlier with about 7 of my teams mates, 3 or 4 couldnt play the straight one, they expected it to carry on and it didnt, and when i mixed it around with my other deliveries, it snuck in beatifully!

Can't wait till sunday now, playing our rivals St. Jimmys, this should be good. I know thier captain and wicketkeep, so i'll be looking to get them two out specially!
Dave, hows it goin? its been a why laptop breaking!
 
Re: Leg Spin

Simon, yeah I'm kind of doing okay, one minute I think I've cracked the leg break and the next minute it's not happening. A week ago mucking about on tarmac throwing a hockey ball back and forth to my mate I was getting it turn massively and every single time with fairly good accuracy with the line and length. The next day in a cricket match - couldn't do it!

This week same thing - just couldn't do it - just goes straight. But going backwards as Peter Philpott recommends - I can turn the hockey balls on tarmac and over short distances get a cricket ball to turn massively. It's just that when I move up to the 22 yards, the effort that I have to put into getting the ball up the end somehow dilutes the spin. I suppose what I need to do is gradually creep up the wicket in length during practice and be patient?

All the other variations are going nicely and I've been playing around tonight with this variation I call the "Gipper" see the images here - http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2008/04/rain.html

The images are the view that the batsman sees so when you bowl it you do so with a weirdly twisted arm and wrist. But tonight it was coming along nicely - I'm managing to get a good length with it and fairly good accuracy. It's a weird ball and sometimes it spins away to off massively and other times it seems to really bounce. But I can't pinpoint what I'm actually doing in order to be consistent. Towards the end of the practice I was getting the speed up but it still remains a mystery as to what I have to do or exaggerate in the delivery in order to get it to spin like it does sometimes. When I first started bowling it - it use spin away to off at a ridiculous angle. But that seems to have reduced at the expense of speed and accuracy. But it still looks like a useful ball and I reckon I'm not too far away from trying it in a match.
 
Re: Leg Spin

someblokecalleddave said:
This is interesting - I take you mean the hand with the ball in you start with it in a high position above head height?
Click to expand...

Yep and then bring it round. It feels abit odd at first but it puts good momentum on the ball. I noticed it when watching Shane Warne. Just before he pulls his body onto his left leg he brings his right arm around his head and then bowls. Have a look at him bowling. Its very easy to miss because most of the time in the slo mo they only show his action from the point where he releases the ball. That could be why your not getting the speed you want.
Its like Peter Philpott's point about looking to bring power down one side of the ball to make it spin.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Dave, RE: your problem with Leg Breaks - this might be a silly thing to ask, but I was having the exact same problem - massive turn one day, none the next - are you gripping the ball tight enough when you bowl your Leg Breaks? I found that I wasn't gripping the ball quite tightly enough, and when I flicked the ball with my wrist, there was a very slight upward movement, meaning that just before the ball pitched it was spinning backwards slightly and meaning the seam wasn't touching the pitch, hence no turn.
It might not be that, as obviously we're going to have different techniques and actions, and hence different problems, but I thought it might be worth a try - just grip the ball a little tighter and make sure your wrist is straight.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Love the thread. Read most, lot's of good ideas and great to see discussion of the art.
I don't bowl leggies but have a 14yo son who does. Finding good info and ideas isn't easy.

Without doubt the bible has to be the ECB Wings to Fly (Spin) video if you can get hold of it. Also good are the Shane Warne Masterclass and Jenner masterclass videos on youtube and other sites.

I have had a tough time getting coaching for leg spin. Every coach says i can help with batting or bowling pace but most don;t feel comfortable with spin. Anyway we have found a great coach, who left suddenly 3 weeks later. Gone for 8 weeks after an offer too good to turn down, working with Warney's team in the IPL 20/20 team as an assistant. My son then proceeded to break his spinning wrist a week later, not great, but the timing at least was good, should be out of plaster and ready to go as the IPL wraps up and hopefully the coach returns.

I am after some help though - anyone know anything about recovery from broken wrists and the recommended steps to rehabilitation. Will be seeing a physio no doubt but wanted to get a heads up. (Maybe he'll come back with a Murali kink. :D)

Also, i can find lot's of footage showing Warne, Jenner etc from behind, some from the side but am really having difficulty with front on footage. I want to use as a comparison for video coaching purposes, especially to highlight the drive and rotation they get through the crease. Any ideas?

Good luck to those leggies in season. Us Aussies are still a few months away from being back in the swing. As Jenner says, may your Captain show you lot's of love.
 
Re: Leg Spin

Dave, i've always said it, keep at it. It'll come! However fustrated you get don't give up.

Back in the swing of things today, after the things with my ankle. I came out, bit of wind, thought yes this will spin nicely. Did it heck like! I couldn't get the ball to spin. My first 5 overs went for a tidy 34, until i thought about turning to medium pace.

With the wind blowing perfectly towards the right hander, i picked up 4 wickets, all plum LBW's for only 8 runs! Great thinking but had i done it from the start who knows, could be looking at a 10-fer :p
 
Re: Leg Spin

Barney said:
I am after some help though - anyone know anything about recovery from broken wrists and the recommended steps to rehabilitation. Will be seeing a physio no doubt but wanted to get a heads up. (Maybe he'll come back with a Murali kink. :D)
Click to expand...

Barney - you need to post on the "Fitness and Nutrition" thread as Liz wards on there and she's an expert on this kind of subject.

Good to hear you like the thread and feel that it's of some use to your son. I had a look around at some of the other Leg break/leg spin threads elsewhere and I've got to say this does appear to be possibly the best around. No-one's offensive and the whole thing is conducted in a really helpful and positive way and I don't think any of us on here are experts by any stretch of the imagination - but we're all really up for it and seemingly willing to learn and try stuff out and then feedback.

Dave
 
Re: Leg Spin

I have problems with the bakspinner(slider) not the flipper. My brain cannot accept that i spin backwards while my hand is moving forward. In the jenner video he makes it look easy and rhythmical but i fell i end throwing the ball rather than bowling it. Does anyone have links to video clips of anyone bowling it in a match situation
 
Re: Leg Spin

mysteryspinner said:
I have problems with the bakspinner(slider) not the flipper. My brain cannot accept that i spin backwards while my hand is moving forward. In the jenner video he makes it look easy and rhythmical but i fell i end throwing the ball rather than bowling it. Does anyone have links to video clips of anyone bowling it in a match situation
Click to expand...

Yep - it's a mystery to me as well. I've looked at the Warne Video at the Wacca as well and I can't figure out what they're doing either. My best attempt is to bowl like a seam bowler but with the 2 up 2 down spinners grip and have the seam in the usual spinners position. Other people try that as a version of the slider and it back spins but we're not sure if it's right? It ends up being a variation amongst your bowling - but whether it's the real thing or not we're not sure (We're pretty certain it's not). But it skids in low and if the ball lands on the seam it then does unpredicatable things and tends to be faster than your normal deliveries - so as I said is variation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top