Money Shield 2012/13

[captain cuzz]

i'm a tool and you agree with me!, feel better calling me names?? why dont you just read what i wrote.

If we have to have the rule, administer it properly! There should be NO circumstance ever in cricket where a result is cancelled.

If the rule is there then It's up to the comp administrators to ensure that results are not achieved on days like saturday. If results are achieved they should always stand.

People forget its park cricket too often, promote the game, lets play!

as for teams missing out on points, the draw is unfair anyway, missing 3 pts this round is no different to drawing an easybeat in 1 dayer, where potentially you miss 4!!

What goes around comes around, always has always will.

There is no rule there to be administered, you idiot! We have a wet weather rule where each game is dealt with on its own. That's the rule, no more, no less.

Go to your club delegate this week and get him to make a call to the comp RE a rule change for next season.

Say to him "I want a rule where we need to be told by 4pm on game day if there are enough games being played to make results count for those already playing" and THEN you can have a whinge if you don't get told next season.

How can you sook up about a rule that doesn't even exist? The comp, under the ruling as it stands are under and have never been under any obligation to let anyone know how many games are being played at any time due to wet weather!

It might be an ordinary rule (or lack of) but it's a rule that hasn't seen a need for change for as long as I can remember. Take it upon yourself to do something about it if you think its no good.

 

[The Goonies]

Good result for banyule- comfortably accounting for LP- good to see them go well after losing so many players

 

[Declaration Bowler]

The "more than 50%" rule is another one of those that was exhaustively debated at a series of AGMs before a 2/3rds majority of clubs were convinced that it was a fair solution to a recurrent problem, and voted it in. If you don't like it, you have the usual 2 choices; lump it, or get your club to try and persuade 2/3rds of the clubs to change their minds.
As to stopping play in games in progress, I would have thought there were significant practical problems. First, in each affected match, both teams have to enter an official result as soon as play is abandoned (even if the club secretaries are playing elsewhere). Someone has to sit there totting up the officially abandoned washouts in each grade. Then that someone has to get the "stop play" order to the umpires in the matches in progress. And everybody has to be careful that no confusion occurs, ie that the only matches which are actually stopped are those in the relevant grades. But perhaps these problems are not insuperable. Once again, all you have to do is get your club to put up a rule change proposal, and persuade 2/3rds of the other clubs to agree to it.

 

[five80]

Surely the umps just call the administrator once the game is abandoned. Then the administrator calls the other 3 grounds once he finds out 4 games are off.

 

[Declaration Bowler]

Surely the umps just call the administrator once the game is abandoned. Then the administrator calls the other 3 grounds once he finds out 4 games are off.

Yes, that could work.
If the umps remember, and if the Administrator can be sure it's the umps he's talking to.
And, of course, he has to directly contact the umps in the other games, not just ring the grounds.

 

[Ex Prez]

Can anyone confirm the wet weather rule - can you start play if it is raining?

I have always believed that you can start in the rain (if deemed safe - thats safe not fair), but once you come off for rain, then you cannot return to play until rain has ceased.

I know of 2 matches on the weekend , controlled by ex HDCA umpires - who both said play cannot commence in the rain. Subsequently both games went past 2:30pm cut off ( 50 overs) to constitute a one day match and were abandoned.

However, many of the games that did start - were officiiated by regular DVCA umps.
Not bagging the ex HDCA umps but appears to be a difference of opinion between the 2.

I know our B grade certainly could have started at 1pm - although drizzling, would have started.
probably would have needed to come off for about 30 min or so about 1:30 when rain got heavy, but then re-started at 2:45 when rain ceased.

The games that did start and might have been interrupted by rain, mostly got results.

 

[Tongs]

The rule changed a couple of years ago.

You can start if it is raining, providing the ground is deemed safe by the umpire/s. captains have no say in the matter.

If you come off the ground for rain, you CAN resume play as per the above. As long as it is safe to do so. You DON'T have to wait for the rain to stop.

If there are two DVCA umpires, and the two umpires disagree on the issue then it then falls in the more senior umpires decision.

If there is one umpire and both captains disagree with the umpire, then a DVCa exec member must be called to come to the ground to make a decision. In the time that it takes for the exec member to get there, the game will continue as per the umpires decision (on or off).

 

[Tongs]

As for my game, we could have and should haves started on time in the drizzle, but was told by the umpire "we won't start till 1:30 as the radar and forecast don't look good, so we will wait to see if it rains", when I questioned the relevance of the radar and forecast as its only drizzling, I was told "we'll the ball will get wet and that's not fair". I again questioned this, and was told that he has made his decision.

I dont want this to sound like im umpiring bashing, as that is not fair. This umpire got a couple of critical rules incorrect, stating that the rules were different in the HDCA. Whilst I understand they are coming from a different comp, they do need to get a full grasp on our rules quicker. In saying that, there were probably 15 players involved that didn't know the rules either, and I'd imagine most had been in the comp for some time.

 

[Declaration Bowler]

The rule changed a couple of years ago.

You can start if it is raining, providing the ground is deemed safe by the umpire/s. captains have no say in the matter.

If you come off the ground for rain, you CAN resume play as per the above. As long as it is safe to do so. You DON'T have to wait for the rain to stop.

If there are two DVCA umpires, and the two umpires disagree on the issue then it then falls in the more senior umpires decision.

If there is one umpire and both captains disagree with the umpire, then a DVCa exec member must be called to come to the ground to make a decision. In the time that it takes for the exec member to get there, the game will continue as per the umpires decision (on or off).

The Laws of Cricket have never said that you can't start or resume in the rain; and nor have the DVCA Rules.
Some other comps might have had different local rules.
So far, Tongs is correct.
However, the parts underlined in Tongs' post above are not correct: see the following from Rule S31:

The umpires will decide whether conditions are fit for play.
If official umpires disagree, the present state of things continues (ie, you stay on or off; in the Laws and Rules there is no such thing as the "more senior umpire").
If an official and unofficial umpire disagree, the official umpire‟s opinion prevails.
If there is no official umpire, the captains will decide. If they disagree, play will proceed while each club tries to contact an independent Executive member, and it will continue until one attends.
If and when one attends, he will decide whether conditions are fit for play.
A club forced to play against its wishes pending an Executive member‟s decision may protest under S63.
In other words, an Executive member gets to decide only if and when there is no official umpire; you cannot call on one to turn up and over-rule an official umpire. The official umpire would, quite rightly, ignore him.

That's from last year's Rule Book on the website.

 

[Tongs]

Happy to be corrected. Thanks for the rules.

The point about the more senior umpire was what we were told last year when there was a dispute between the two umpires. As was calling an executive member when we were "forced" to play in unsafe conditions, we were advised to call an exec member to settle this dispute.

But the above rules are pretty clear.

 

[Declaration Bowler]

Happy to be corrected. Thanks for the rules.

The point about the more senior umpire was what we were told last year when there was a dispute between the two umpires. As was calling an executive member when we were "forced" to play in unsafe conditions, we were advised to call an exec member to settle this dispute.

But the above rules are pretty clear.

No worries.
The bit about the "senior umpire" deciding is another urban myth, like not starting in the rain.
It is a general interpretation under the Laws that where the 2 umpires disagree on a point in their joint jurisdiction, that the existing state of things will continue; but not, of course, where the Laws specify that it will be decided by a particular umpire.

 

[harry2bob]

There is no rule there to be administered, you idiot! We have a wet weather rule where each game is dealt with on its own. That's the rule, no more, no less.

Go to your club delegate this week and get him to make a call to the comp RE a rule change for next season.

Say to him "I want a rule where we need to be told by 4pm on game day if there are enough games being played to make results count for those already playing" and THEN you can have a whinge if you don't get told next season.

How can you sook up about a rule that doesn't even exist? The comp, under the ruling as it stands are under and have never been under any obligation to let anyone know how many games are being played at any time due to wet weather!

It might be an ordinary rule (or lack of) but it's a rule that hasn't seen a need for change for as long as I can remember. Take it upon yourself to do something about it if you think its no good.

another name caller, hope you feel better about yourself.
not everyone has time to be a delegate, or in fact get to the club during the week! someone better help us all, if we ever have a fan on here, you'll go into meltdown!

IMO, shocking rule, in fact an embarrassing rule that needs administration if in place.

fyi its an opinion/suggestion to not let matches complete. ie administer the rule, we do have an administrator dont we?

 

[WanderingUnity]

As for my game, we could have and should haves started on time in the drizzle, but was told by the umpire "we won't start till 1:30 as the radar and forecast don't look good, so we will wait to see if it rains", when I questioned the relevance of the radar and forecast as its only drizzling, I was told "we'll the ball will get wet and that's not fair". I again questioned this, and was told that he has made his decision.

I dont want this to sound like im umpiring bashing, as that is not fair. This umpire got a couple of critical rules incorrect, stating that the rules were different in the HDCA. Whilst I understand they are coming from a different comp, they do need to get a full grasp on our rules quicker. In saying that, there were probably 15 players involved that didn't know the rules either, and I'd imagine most had been in the comp for some time.

Slightly disagree with you there Tongs. The umpire stated to both captains that conditions were unsafe to start, and would be looked at around 1.30pm. He then went on to say the other comments once he was quizzed by other players. Conditions never got any better and the correct decision was made not to play, as the unsafe aspect had not changed.

 

[WanderingUnity]

Can anyone confirm the wet weather rule - can you start play if it is raining?

I have always believed that you can start in the rain (if deemed safe - thats safe not fair), but once you come off for rain, then you cannot return to play until rain has ceased.

I know of 2 matches on the weekend , controlled by ex HDCA umpires - who both said play cannot commence in the rain. Subsequently both games went past 2:30pm cut off ( 50 overs) to constitute a one day match and were abandoned.

However, many of the games that did start - were officiiated by regular DVCA umps.
Not bagging the ex HDCA umps but appears to be a difference of opinion between the 2.

I know our B grade certainly could have started at 1pm - although drizzling, would have started.
probably would have needed to come off for about 30 min or so about 1:30 when rain got heavy, but then re-started at 2:45 when rain ceased.

The games that did start and might have been interrupted by rain, mostly got results.

All in all, as long as conditions are deemed to be safe, by both umpires, then play shall start and continue until such time that safety is an issue.
As we live and play in a 20 km radius, from Panton Hill to Mill Park, to Macleod, to Heidelberg, to Diamond Creek, there will always be different conditions to contend with.

Let's all move on to Round 2.

 

[Tongs]

Slightly disagree with you there Tongs. The umpire stated to both captains that conditions were unsafe to start, and would be looked at around 1.30pm. He then went on to say the other comments once he was quizzed by other players. Conditions never got any better and the correct decision was made not to play, as the unsafe aspect had not changed.

They were direct quotes from the umpire to me. I can't go off what was said to others. But what I can say is, he never once said to me that the ground was unsafe.

Whilst mine, and our opinion was the ground was more than suitable to play, the rain did end up coming. Regardless, 50% wouldn't have played anyway, so no point arguing.

 

[WanderingUnity]

They were direct quotes from the umpire to me. I can't go off what was said to others. But what I can say is, he never once said to me that the ground was unsafe.

Whilst mine, and our opinion was the ground was more than suitable to play, the rain did end up coming. Regardless, 50% wouldn't have played anyway, so no point arguing.

No arguing Tongs, but as you were not the captain, what does it matter what was said to you, the discussion was had between captains and umpire, decision was agreed to wait until it got better / safer, which it never did. Correct outcome was reached.

 

[Tongs]

No arguing Tongs, but as you were not the captain, what does it matter what was said to you, the discussion was had between captains and umpire, decision was agreed to wait until it got better / safer, which it never did. Correct outcome was reached.

The umpire should not be giving the above reasons for not playing, regardless of to captains or not.

The BU captain clearly did not want to play. Anything to do with the fact he lost the toss and had to field???

 

[WanderingUnity]

The umpire should not be giving the above reasons for not playing, regardless of to captains or not.

The BU captain clearly did not want to play. Anything to do with the fact he lost the toss and had to field???

Clearly another assumption on your part. Both captains agreed that the ground was unsafe, umpire was also of this belief. Should have just left it to them Tongs, no need for a 'player' to be involved in discussions between captains and umpires anyway.

 

[WanderingUnity]

No worries.
The bit about the "senior umpire" deciding is another urban myth, like not starting in the rain.
It is a general interpretation under the Laws that where the 2 umpires disagree on a point in their joint jurisdiction, that the existing state of things will continue; but not, of course, where the Laws specify that it will be decided by a particular umpire.

Question DB - do scores count for the sides that played?
Just viewed on MyCricket that all points have been allocated (3 each), yet % are still worked out on scores made. Eltham won and are under the side that they beat.

 

[Tongs]

Clearly another assumption on your part. Both captains agreed that the ground was unsafe, umpire was also of this belief. Should have just left it to them Tongs, no need for a 'player' to be involved in discussions between captains and umpires anyway.

Sadly, both captains and umpire didn't know the rules. The umpire said we had to wait till 4pm before we could call it off, and wanted an early tea break. Both captains agreed, which are both wrong. Hence why I stepped in to assist in getting it right.

 

[Tongs]

Question DB - do scores count for the sides that played?
Just viewed on MyCricket that all points have been allocated (3 each), yet % are still worked out on scores made. Eltham won and are under the side that they beat.

Im led to believe Nothing counts at all. It will all be wiped from the record books as if it never happened. % doesn't count. All teams just get 3 points.