Off Spin Bowling
- Thread starter 90degreeTURNS
- Start date
Altie
New Member
After the first time reading this thread I have been bouncing off the walls with excitement, so I just had to register in response and give others an update on this facinating/misunderstood/beautiful bowling technique.
After some time researching my own delivery technique I discovered that I unknowingly meshed the Iverson/Gleeson and Grimmet variations to come up with a finer spin "style" that as far as I can tell is unique.
Firstly let me just say that my wrist position (slightly cocked backwards just before delivery) and palm of the hand (always facing the batsman) are exactly the same for all five variations of my deliveries...currently working on my sixth. This bowling style unfortunately does'nt have much to do with leg spin so bare with me. The finger position for all my deliveries are all almost identical and I bowl with an off-brake action. For two of my variations I apply the Grimmet method of applying pressure between the middle finger and thumb to create either a topspin/off-break delivery, backspin/leg-break delivery or one that just skids on straight with backspin. I achieve this by rolling the seam on either side of my middle finger with my middle finger acting as a rudder.
What this allows me to do is generate vast amounts of spin that deviate towards or away from the batsman. I say vast because yesterday I bowled a topspin/off-break ripper that accidently overpitched and acted like a yorker, landing half a foot just outside off stump, spinning and missing leg stump! After which I dumbfoundedly strolled down the pitch to re-assess what just happened. Together with the pressure between thumb and middle finger combined with the roll on either side just before release I create a delivey that looks the same from a batting point of view, is very accurate and spins drastically. The final result is something that looks similar to a carrom ball however I believe this delevopement is far more effective.
A couple of the other variations are once again almost identical to the afore mentioned with the exception that pressure is no longer created between thumb and middle finger but rather between combined pressure from the middle finger applied to the lower thumb and palm of the hand (the tip of my thumb becomes more prominent and points to the off side). I lose pace due to this but only slightly, this allows me to flight the ball and I generate more bounce thus decieving the batsman. Once again because of my action I am able to rip the ball creating a doosra or off-break with tons of spin. I am going to try this new technique for the whole season at club level. Any feed back is appreciated, w ill keep you updated.
Here are a few pictures of ball in hand and the seam postion as seen by the batsman. In both images the ball is rotating anti-clockwise as seen by you:
Thanks.
After some time researching my own delivery technique I discovered that I unknowingly meshed the Iverson/Gleeson and Grimmet variations to come up with a finer spin "style" that as far as I can tell is unique.
Firstly let me just say that my wrist position (slightly cocked backwards just before delivery) and palm of the hand (always facing the batsman) are exactly the same for all five variations of my deliveries...currently working on my sixth. This bowling style unfortunately does'nt have much to do with leg spin so bare with me. The finger position for all my deliveries are all almost identical and I bowl with an off-brake action. For two of my variations I apply the Grimmet method of applying pressure between the middle finger and thumb to create either a topspin/off-break delivery, backspin/leg-break delivery or one that just skids on straight with backspin. I achieve this by rolling the seam on either side of my middle finger with my middle finger acting as a rudder.
What this allows me to do is generate vast amounts of spin that deviate towards or away from the batsman. I say vast because yesterday I bowled a topspin/off-break ripper that accidently overpitched and acted like a yorker, landing half a foot just outside off stump, spinning and missing leg stump! After which I dumbfoundedly strolled down the pitch to re-assess what just happened. Together with the pressure between thumb and middle finger combined with the roll on either side just before release I create a delivey that looks the same from a batting point of view, is very accurate and spins drastically. The final result is something that looks similar to a carrom ball however I believe this delevopement is far more effective.
A couple of the other variations are once again almost identical to the afore mentioned with the exception that pressure is no longer created between thumb and middle finger but rather between combined pressure from the middle finger applied to the lower thumb and palm of the hand (the tip of my thumb becomes more prominent and points to the off side). I lose pace due to this but only slightly, this allows me to flight the ball and I generate more bounce thus decieving the batsman. Once again because of my action I am able to rip the ball creating a doosra or off-break with tons of spin. I am going to try this new technique for the whole season at club level. Any feed back is appreciated, w ill keep you updated.
Here are a few pictures of ball in hand and the seam postion as seen by the batsman. In both images the ball is rotating anti-clockwise as seen by you:
Thanks.
macca
Active Member
How you goin mate ? Just gonna grab a cricket ball and go through your method but like you say a bit of grimmett/iverson/gleeson going on there. How long you been workin on this stuff ?
Grimmett came up with both those grips. In his 1948 book he describes an iverson style ball he worked on before his flipper. This was years before iverson. It is much like your bent third finger grip in fig2. Seam placement would be different.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Good to have you on here Altie, hope you hang around and some of the Finger Spinners get involved. Maybe we'll see the 'Palmheads' bloke turn up again - he loves these techniques and he might get involved in your discussion?
Altie
New Member
Thanks for the quick reply Macca.
I started on this technique a little over a month back. Traditionally I was more of a leg break bowler which I loved however I was frustrated by my innaccuracy. Because of this and some extra time on my hands I spent these summer holidays (currently studying at varsity) bending my mind around a more natural bowling rythm that was difficult to detect and easier to manipulate spin. I am by no means an expert but to me cricket at its core is more of a mental battle rather than a physical one between yourself and your opposition, but you probably already know this. I havent had alot of time to master each delivery but on average I spend +/- 5 hours a day in the nets.
The beauty in these techniques is purely the manipulation of the middle finger, ring finger and thumb (provided the fingers are tough enough). I apply considerable pressure between these fingers and it may take some getting used to but then again all bowling variations require some time and effort. It may not work for everybody especially if you depend on a more relaxed grip for your deliveries. This is by no means a perfect technique but it definitly has potential if you are willing to experiment a bit. I firmly believe that bowlers should focus on a natural rythm to become successful bowlers which is what I did and this is a result of that.
The seam position in these pictures are the off-break seam positions and they differ only slightly from the doosra. The difference is just the middle finger positioned on the opposite side of the seam. I would upload a video however the internet connectivity in South Africa is dismal and would take ages. Hope this might help.
Clarrie is my hero.
Altie
New Member
Thanks Dave.
I have watched your flipper variations several times with fascination. The reason is that I enjoyed bowling leg spin with the inclusion of the thumb (Flipper) however I found that I wanted to experiment further with the thumb and its versatility which is why I turned to bowling much like an off spinner. This is just personal preference however as this put less strain, if non at all on my wrist. With less strain I had a more direct trajectory and I could focus more on where I wanted to pitch the ball increasing my accuracy while maintaining a descent amount of spin.
Keep posting those vids, they have helped a ton. Thanks again!
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
I would do more vids and update the existing ones, but windows 7 had a dog crap useless version
of their movie maker and I'm struggling with it at the moment. I've also been looking to get my hands on a hi-speed camera, but that's not coming together either, but with a bit of luck I will get something together and add at least a couple of more ideas with the Flippers. Glad to hear they're appreciated!
Altie
New Member
I have quite the opposite dilemma!
I have tons of access to all kinds of slow motion equipment and digital photography due to the cinematography department at the film univarsity I attend but no way of uploading the files to the internet because of connectivity issues. Its a work in progress though. There are various editing programs available for windows however they cost a fortune but here is a link to some free editing programs that you can download for windows, not sure if this will help much...
http://savedelete.com/best-free-windows-video-editing-software.html
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Altie, you need to get a camera going and get a few clips together showing your delivery coming out of the hand in slo mo showing how much spin you can get on the ball and the technique -
You're not anywhere near Essex in England by any chance?
You're not anywhere near Essex in England by any chance?
Altie
New Member
Unfortunately not anywhere near Essex, Sorry Dave.
I am currently working on a project that would combine certain elements of cricket i.e. batting, bowling and fielding with historical footage of former cricketing legends such as Len Hutton, Sunil Gavaskar, Clarrie Grimmet, Hansie Cronje and several others that would help create a renewed interest in the sport. I will be working in conjunction with the South African Cricket Board and other current South African legends of the sport such as AB de Villiers, Hashim Amla, Dale Steyn and Jaque Kallis to demonstrate in slow motion the techniques that make them successful. This will serve as a documentary that aims to reach out and touch people of all ages regarding its beauty while at the same time coaching youngsters on how to play the game.
Hmmm...need to add spin into the mix though and we all know that is South Africa's curse. I have alot on my plate at the moment so I will try to get footage of my action and upload it asap. If I compare the video you just posted to the amount of spin generated from my own action, I would say that I comfortably spin the ball with slightly more spin when I bowl my delivery with sharp deviation similar to what you see in your video when the ball hits the ground. The 'flick' created by the thumb and middle finger is the same however I not only use the tips of my fingers but the rest of the fingers aswell, much like a seam bowler does. This enables me to bowl a delivery with alot of spin and pace.
Thanks once again for the video!
Why do you think that bowlers should focus on a natural rhythm? To feel familiar with the situation? Because I read somewhere that when we feel like we are in an unfamiliar situation we tend to use more of our conscious brain, which is bad for bowling in games.
Well, I'm back to the bowling forum after an interesting foray into the "batsmen" forum... Altie, this is a very interesting style you've got going on, a mix of many different unorthodox styles. I have had a dabble with this before, didn't really do too much with it as I didn't fancy losing my current style of finger-spin, but have had a mess-about with it all the same. How much turn do you get from this on a regular basis (that is to say, was the big turner a one-off/fluke, or a regular occurrence?) Is it accurate? And how easy to pick, would you say? Would be interested to see a video of this!
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
I think this is to do with the fact that the mechanical aspects of your "Stock Ball" bowling should be so grooved, that you hardly have to conisder them conciously and yet when executed the ball should land on a line and length and turn to an extent that it causes problem. Your concious brain surely should be working with the unfamiliar - a batsman you've never faced or a batsman that is coping with your stock ball and therefore creating an unfamiliar scenario that you would then have to think about and work out a plan for?
Altie
New Member
I have thought about this quite often when playing all aspects of cricket and in other sports aswell. "Natural Rhythm" is just another way of me saying that when at the crease, whether you are batting or bowling, you must be mentally focused to the task at hand as much as possible. That is to say that cricket resembles more of a chess game combined with physcial elements, a battle of wits and resolve. My point is that a good natural rhythm is kinetic energy that does'nt come into conflict with the mind. When in the nets focus on your technique and what works for you and then drill it to death to the point that you become comfortable with a stock ball or likewise for other variations. This ensures that when out in the middle your focus is on the batsman i.e. Does he play on the on-side or off-side? Does he play on the back foot or front foot?
What this enables me to do is to play the game in such a way that I need not focus on my run-up or an uncomfortable follow through. This is something that my body has become accustomed to and is comfortable with due to hours of practice, preventing me from entering an "unfamiliar situation". A good example of bowler that uses natural rhythm is Lasith Malinga, who probably started bowling the way he does from an early age and has stuck with it ever since.
Altie
New Member
Hi Tumo.
Does it turn? = Alot, from middle stump I can turn it approxamitly 3ft depending on pace/variation with ease. Rough patches do wonders!
Does it turn constantly? = Yes. All the time. That was a one-off though, however I have gotten to the point that if I twist my wrist at the point of delivery I am able to re-create the "fluke". This is risky though as it can be spotted by the batsman.
Is it accurate? = It's deadly accurate below 100kph/60mph. I can consistantly hit off stump with my stock ball at about 95kph/59mph. Strangely though it still turns the same at higher speeds with little change.
Is it easy to pick? = This has been my greatest concern with this technique for some time. Since I posted my original comment I have learnt that instead of the palm of the hand facing the batsman I angle it towards the off side (of a right handed batsman) which further disguises my variations. As a result my doosra turns just as much if not more than my stock ball. To avoid being spotted I simply rotate my right arm quickly enough to create enough doubt in the mind of the batsman. A really settled top-order batsman might be able to pick it.
Be careful though as I apply alot of pressure on the ball with the fingers 'Clarrie Grimmet' style and I advise against youngsters trying this technique to prevent permament damage. Dave accurately describes my bowling technique with the exceptions that I bowl with a scrambled seam, vary my grip and angle of my wrist. Check out this video of his:
Finger spin, although tricky at first, can be very rewarding. Hope it works out for you.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Altie, have you had to go through medial epicondilitis phase, or did you build up using a tennis ball or something developing the technique? This vids a couple of years old now and since then I've done a little more work with this delivery and if I shot it again I'd be more positive about it's potential. I'm with you on the accuracy - I found it like you to be very easy to bowl with increadile consistency and accuracy, I don't think I ever got to the stage where the turn was massive or even big, the thing I found with it was its inconsistency, that I found interesting and the fact that I could bowl it so much faster than the rest of my deliveries, it's certainly an interesting delivery!
Have you ever tried the same technique with the hand bent forwards at the wrist so that the ball comes out like a flying saucer - that's worth a look at as well?
Have you ever tried the same technique with the hand bent forwards at the wrist so that the ball comes out like a flying saucer - that's worth a look at as well?
Altie
New Member
Yes I went through the medial epicondylitis phase, however this was only briefly. To ensure that I did not have issues with this I would take a normal cricket ball and flick it as often as possible in and around the house to condition the tendons in my hand and wrist. Prior to this I would bowl with a cocked wrist action (for more spin) but this seemed to aggravate the medial epicondylitis exponentially. Although some may battle at first to generate the spin needed to implement this technique I have determined that the amount of spin is directly in relation to how much pressure you apply between the fingers and the ball. This pressure ensures that the ball pops out of the front of the hand with lots of revs. This poses a problem though as this will affect my accuracy and turn if I apply the incorrect amount. Too little and the ball won't turn, too much and I miss my line and length.
For me the lack of consistency occurs when I fail to remember to apply just the right amount. This is surprising though, this enables me to have lots of control over how much spin I want in each of my deliveries. Interesting? Absolutely. I have watched Macca's video on the 'flying saucer' delivery several weeks back and was fascinated. I will give it a go next time I am in the nets even although it seems as though in the video it is delivered like a leg-break.
Altie
New Member
Thanks macca.
You would'nt happen to have any more footage of this delivery, would you? Perhaps as it is released from the hand?
macca
Active Member
In a few of weeks i might try and get a better camera and closer view. He bowled one last night in a 5 over session we did out in the middle. He calls it his UFO.
The strangest thing about it is the bounce, no overspin yet it jumps up, but like a dead cat..
It's just a party trick as far as he is concerned and not part of his bowling plan for matches, At least I dont think it is!