Off Spinning Guide

Top Contributors
keendude said:
I have a quick question that I suppose fits in to this category the best. I'm VERY new to cricket, only really started watching it often in the past year. I've been playing with my friends casually at the nets and am having a really good time. I can bowl decent backspinning medium pace on a good day (and terrible on others...), but I'm much more interested in bowling spin. This is where the problem comes for me.

It seems all my spin bowling comes out about 90 degrees away from where I think it should, and where my action (to me) feels like it should. I bowl a leg spinner, it comes out as top spin. Really ripping the leg spin results in a very nice googly with plenty of turn, though it's not super-accurate (I'm sure with practice it could be).

My off spin always comes out as back spin and even if I try to really move my hand around, I can only just barely get it so that the seam is at a 90 degree angle to the batsman. This feels very unnatural, and a backspinner or off-cutter ish delivery is all I can do whilst trying to bowl 'normally'. I thought it might be that I wasn't rotating my body around enough in the release, but even a bowl standing totally front on or slightly facing left comes out in the same manner, backspin or off cutting.

Is this a common problem at all? I can't seem to find any info of this on the web. If I had it my way, I'd love to bowl off spin, but it seems the only viable option for me at the moment is having googly as my stock ball which feels a bit silly.
Any help greatly appreciated, sorry for the wall-of-text.
Click to expand...


Getting topspin onto an offspinner is a devilishly difficult thing to do - I can do it now but it took me a few years of doing impressions of Saeed Ajmal to perfect it. Literally doing impressions, like a front on action, with the slightly bent arm and the pause in the middle of the action and everything.

I would say offspin is easier to bowl mediocrely than legspin, but bowling effective offspin with decent dip and turn is no easier than bowling effective legspin.
 
Do you mean you bowl consistently short, or that your length is inconsistent. They're two different problems.
 
I look at where the keeper would bel
SLA said:
What target do you use to aim when you bowl? Separate question: do you still have the same trouble when you bowl at an empty wicket? Or a different length wicket (e when messing around in a pub garden etc).
Click to expand...

I look at where the keeper should be standing. And no don't have the problem with shorter lengths. The pitch length always seems long to me at training and games, so don't know what happens keep bowling short
 
spin bowler said:
I look at where the keeper would bel

I look at where the keeper should be standing. And no don't have the problem with shorter lengths. The pitch length always seems long to me at training and games, so don't know what happens keep bowling short
Click to expand...

Curious, so your target and the length you actually hit are really quite a long way apart!


Systematic wrong length is a tricky thing, its a lot harder to correct than a poor line. You learn to hit a certain length through habit without really knowing it. Depending upon their practice methods, some people train themselves to land the ball exactly on their visual target, others just short, between 1-2 yards. This works well because you can simply aim at the base of the stumps or the batsman's feet, or even a spot on the pitch (difficult).

It sounds like you have inadvertently trained yourself to drop the ball even shorter of your visual target, maybe 3-4 yards. That's tricky because there are very few consistent visual targets to aim at 3-4 yards beyond a good full length.

You're either going to have to retrain yourself, or pick a high target like the keepers gloves. Two options:
Have you tried bowling on a longer pitch to try and retrain yourself to bowl to a fuller length?
Practice bowling the ball EXACTLY on a particular spot. Give yourself a target on a wall and bowl the ball against it from about 15 yards. When you can hit that consistently, move back to 18 yards and put the target at the foot of the wall, move back to 22 yards and now put the target 6 foot short of the wall. You should train yourself to adjust your action to hit your target through practicing like this.
Alternately work with a keeper and get him to give you a target with his gloves about waist high. If you strive to reach this, you may find your length creeps up just the right amount.
 
Okay thanks!
SLA said:
Curious, so your target and the length you actually hit are really quite a long way apart!


Systematic wrong length is a tricky thing, its a lot harder to correct than a poor line. You learn to hit a certain length through habit without really knowing it. Depending upon their practice methods, some people train themselves to land the ball exactly on their visual target, others just short, between 1-2 yards. This works well because you can simply aim at the base of the stumps or the batsman's feet, or even a spot on the pitch (difficult).

It sounds like you have inadvertently trained yourself to drop the ball even shorter of your visual target, maybe 3-4 yards. That's tricky because there are very few consistent visual targets to aim at 3-4 yards beyond a good full length.

You're either going to have to retrain yourself, or pick a high target like the keepers gloves. Two options:
Have you tried bowling on a longer pitch to try and retrain yourself to bowl to a fuller length?
Practice bowling the ball EXACTLY on a particular spot. Give yourself a target on a wall and bowl the ball against it from about 15 yards. When you can hit that consistently, move back to 18 yards and put the target at the foot of the wall, move back to 22 yards and now put the target 6 foot short of the wall. You should train yourself to adjust your action to hit your target through practicing like this.
Alternately work with a keeper and get him to give you a target with his gloves about waist high. If you strive to reach this, you may find your length creeps up just the right amount.
Click to expand...
Okay thanks! How about my action? What needs work
 
On the subject of finger spin, did anyone else put two and two together and notice how Ashton Agar's extremely straight run-up led him to have problems with maintaining a consistent line? As soon as I saw him I thought "oh god, a bowling coach has got hold of him".
 
hey , i cant bowl off spin without having my thumb on the ball. but all the photos i have seen of finger spinners they dont have the thumb on the ball. any tips?
 
SLA said:
On the subject of finger spin, did anyone else put two and two together and notice how Ashton Agar's extremely straight run-up led him to have problems with maintaining a consistent line? As soon as I saw him I thought "oh god, a bowling coach has got hold of him".
Click to expand...

hey , i cant bowl off spin without having my thumb on the ball. but all the photos i have seen of finger spinners they dont have the thumb on the ball. any tips?​
 
spin bowler said:
hey , i cant bowl off spin without having my thumb on the ball. but all the photos i have seen of finger spinners they dont have the thumb on the ball. any tips?​
Click to expand...

Without having a cricket ball to hand I couldn't tell you whethert or not my thumb touches the ball when I'm holding it and running up. I'm pretty sure it does though. But it certainly comes off the ball in the action well before the ball leaves the fingers - if your thumb gets involved in the release it will completely kill the spin.
 
SLA said:
Without having a cricket ball to hand I couldn't tell you whethert or not my thumb touches the ball when I'm holding it and running up. I'm pretty sure it does though. But it certainly comes off the ball in the action well before the ball leaves the fingers - if your thumb gets involved in the release it will completely kill the spin.
Click to expand...

i can't bowl it without my thumb? any tips. i need the thumb to support it
 
SLA said:
Getting topspin onto an offspinner is a devilishly difficult thing to do - I can do it now but it took me a few years of doing impressions of Saeed Ajmal to perfect it. Literally doing impressions, like a front on action, with the slightly bent arm and the pause in the middle of the action and everything.

I would say offspin is easier to bowl mediocrely than legspin, but bowling effective offspin with decent dip and turn is no easier than bowling effective legspin.
Click to expand...


Hi - I am an experienced (orthodox) slow-left-arm bowler, but have just realised that my stock ball is coming out with a slight back-spin motion(!) What is happening is when the ball is released the index-finger somehow drags downwards on the ball (instead of forwards) which results in back-spin. I believe this happens because when the ball is released the ball is coming out of the hand faster than the completion of the forward flick of the index finger and hence the ball gets dragged backwards.

At the moment I bowl the ball with the intention of having a 45 degree angle on release, but the outcome is some slight back-spin. If I went for 100% side-spin the outcome is a much greater amount of back spin. My best solution at present is to try and turn the wrist around as far as possible (i.e. try and bowl a pure top-spinner or doosra) this results in the ball landing with some top-spin and the ball noticeably turns sharply (i.e. more than usual). However, I cannot as yet produce a pure top-spinning delivery.

I am determined to develop/improve my finger-spin top-spin bowling. At the moment I am trying to cut out the back-spin by attempting to get my index-finger over the ball on release. Ideas to do this include trying to encourage an upwards release of the ball including a higher bowling-arm position. Also, I could try and release the ball after the wrist/spinning fingers have finished imparting the spin on the ball. Perhaps this could be done by trying to start the main spinning action on the ball (i.e. wrist and fingers) a little earlier.

I was excited to read this thread as someone has already posted problems with back-spinning stock-balls and also forum member “SLA” has spent time developing a finger-spinner’s top-spin. Therefore I hope forum readers will be able to help me! I am grateful for any ideas/comments.


Thank you!
 
Alec Armstrong said:
Hi - I am an experienced (orthodox) slow-left-arm bowler, but have just realised that my stock ball is coming out with a slight back-spin motion(!) What is happening is when the ball is released the index-finger somehow drags downwards on the ball (instead of forwards) which results in back-spin. I believe this happens because when the ball is released the ball is coming out of the hand faster than the completion of the forward flick of the index finger and hence the ball gets dragged backwards.

At the moment I bowl the ball with the intention of having a 45 degree angle on release, but the outcome is some slight back-spin. If I went for 100% side-spin the outcome is a much greater amount of back spin. My best solution at present is to try and turn the wrist around as far as possible (i.e. try and bowl a pure top-spinner or doosra) this results in the ball landing with some top-spin and the ball noticeably turns sharply (i.e. more than usual). However, I cannot as yet produce a pure top-spinning delivery.

I am determined to develop/improve my finger-spin top-spin bowling. At the moment I am trying to cut out the back-spin by attempting to get my index-finger over the ball on release. Ideas to do this include trying to encourage an upwards release of the ball including a higher bowling-arm position. Also, I could try and release the ball after the wrist/spinning fingers have finished imparting the spin on the ball. Perhaps this could be done by trying to start the main spinning action on the ball (i.e. wrist and fingers) a little earlier.

I was excited to read this thread as someone has already posted problems with back-spinning stock-balls and also forum member “SLA” has spent time developing a finger-spinner’s top-spin. Therefore I hope forum readers will be able to help me! I am grateful for any ideas/comments.


Thank you!
Click to expand...

Hi Alec,

I don't think many finger spinners are able to bowl a pure topspinner. To do so is only a few degrees away from bowling a doosra, and we know how few people in world cricket are able to do that. To do so with a "traditional" action I would say is impossible. Its just one of the disadvantages of being a supinator (ie finger spinner). leggies naturally bowl with topspin, we naturally bowl with backspin.

I initially found I couldn't bowl any kind of topspinner at all with my orthodox action, so had to experiment by bowling like Ajmal in the nets (ie chest on, hint of a bent elbow) to get the feel for it, and then once I got the hang of it I was able to sort out the action so it wasn't so obviously different from my normal action.

This is not a pure topspinner though, the best I can do is about 45 degrees. The difference in flight and bounce between this and my standard delivery which is sidespin and a bit of backspin is noticeable though.

Rather than trying to get rid of the backspin altogether, I would concentrate on learning to bowl the two different deliveries at will. I had some fun in the nets last winter by alternating adding topspin and backspin to my stock ball in turn and the batsmen just got so confused as to where the ball was going to pitch.
 
Hi SLA – thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my post of which I read with interest.
(1.)You wrote most finger spinners are naturally back-spinners - what reason would you give for this? Is it a case of how I was describing it with myself (i.e. ball coming out of hand faster than the flick of index finger which results in the index finger dragging down on the ball.)
(2.)If you have had the same problem as me with the ball spinning backwards for the reasons I described - did you have any solutions? For example, I have other slightly different ways of releasing the ball at release (which have always produced slightly different outcomes) which on examination do not suffer from the index finger producing back spin.
(3.)You write about modelling the top-spinner on Ajmal. Do you have any readings on this?
(4.)I agree with your final comment about using both backspin and top spin. My stock-ball back spin deliveries do swerve in the air before pitching and hence achieve an arm-ball type effect.
 
Alec Armstrong said:
Hi SLA – thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my post of which I read with interest.
(1.)You wrote most finger spinners are naturally back-spinners - what reason would you give for this? Is it a case of how I was describing it with myself (i.e. ball coming out of hand faster than the flick of index finger which results in the index finger dragging down on the ball.)
(2.)If you have had the same problem as me with the ball spinning backwards for the reasons I described - did you have any solutions? For example, I have other slightly different ways of releasing the ball at release (which have always produced slightly different outcomes) which on examination do not suffer from the index finger producing back spin.
(3.)You write about modelling the top-spinner on Ajmal. Do you have any readings on this?
(4.)I agree with your final comment about using both backspin and top spin. My stock-ball back spin deliveries do swerve in the air before pitching and hence achieve an arm-ball type effect.
Click to expand...

It is always a pleasure to discuss spin bowling. I might veer off at a tangent at some points here.

1) There are a few different ways of releasing the ball with the fingers, I do not really use my fingers to generate spin, they just transfer the torque I generate from supinating my arm (not sure if you are familiar with the terminology, basically supinating is rotating outwards like a finger spinner, pronating is rotating inwards like a wrist spinner).

Almost all spin is initially generated from the position and rotation of the arm in the action. I am aware of some deliveries such as a carrom ball that a finger flicked, but in general I think the fingers transfer the spin, rather than generate it themselves. The movement of the wrist - flexion or extension - also acts as a torque magnifier. Bowlers like Warne and Murali extended their wrist to generate their prodigious turn, but many bowlers do not use their wrist at all.

2) My only solution was to practice ensuring a clean "release" with the fingers, in which all the torque is transfered down the front or the side of the ball rather than down the back. We all know what it feels like when the ball doesn't quite come out right because the wrong bit of finger has brushed on it. I tend to grip the ball with my index finger slightly bent so that the tip is pressed against the seam to ensure that this is always the last thing to touch the ball as I let go of it.
Secondly, focus on really trying to reach round the front of the ball and bowl with as much topspin as possible.

3) If you think of a raised arm with the palm facing the batsman as the "neutral position", you can then rotate it in either direction so the back of the hand is facing the batsman.

My opinion is that for the majority of people, it is biomechanically harder to bowl a delivery with a fully supinated arm (ie back of the hand facing the batsman like Murali) than it is for a fully pronated arm (back of the hand facing the batsman like Warne). This is purely to do with the movement in the shoulders etc.

3) Leading on from this, we can discuss offspinners and legspinners actions as points on a continuum where the two extremes with significantly advanced or retarded hip rotation compared to completion of the bowling action. A neutral action (eg Swann) is about in the middle, where the hips rotate in time with the bowling arm coming over. An "extreme" offspinner's action such as Ajmal's see the hips rotate ahead of the bowling arm, this allows a greater deal of supination at the point of release. An extreme legspinner's action looks a bit like bowling off the wrong foot and allows extra pronation. This is quite common amongst bowlers who specialised in googlies. Mushtaq Ahmed was an example of this.

To copy an extreme offbreak action, simply delay your bowling arm coming over a little later until the hips have rotated that little bit more than usual and try to extend your wrist towards the batsman with your palm facing back towards your face. Look how Murali has rotated his hips right round so his chest is facing midwicket - and he hasn't even released the ball yet.

murali_1682026c.jpg

Compare this with Mushtaq below, who will release the ball with his chest facing the gully/slip region.
mushtaq_ahmed_narrowweb__300x417,0.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top