payments

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Re: payments

beached as;323335 said:
Here is my format (Similar to Jika Jika's)

Points System:
  • 0 points - Home grown juniors.
  • 1 point - Players recruited from from other local competitions and country comps (WDCA, NWCA, DDCA, VSDCA Lower XI's, etc.)
  • 2 points - Other VTCA sides and Lower XI Premier Cricket sides.
  • 3 points - VSDCA 1st and 2nd XI players.
  • 4 points - Premier Cricket 1st and 2nd XI players (Including interstate teams).

Conditions applied are:
  • Cap is set around 20 to 25 points.
  • Each year a player stays with the club, a player loses a point off their status.
  • 1 International player allowed per 1st XI.
  • No rules on player payments.

Thoughts?
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What about clubs that don't have juniors, surely such a system would put them at a huge disadvantage?
 
Re: payments

Schofield;323715 said:
What about clubs that don't have juniors, surely such a system would put them at a huge disadvantage?
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You raise a great point there. And I'm guessing there isn't a great range of juniors to choose from around your area for RPB, YP and PD.

Back to the drawing board!
 
Re: payments

Too Old Body Broke;323650 said:
Lookout Jika, you have come up with what seems to be a popular idea!! How many stubbies did it take? You get my vote for getting your ar_e onto the exec, along with Donk, and get some of your wisdom and ideas on the table, and hopefully through.

Anyhow, I may catch up with you for a beer Sunday week. How much is a ticket? Are there any left?
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Sober (shock, horror), but really its not rocket science is it. Your club, like most of us will never compete money wise if half the stories are true about what some clubs are paying. Weve missed out on a few players in the last couple of years when they tell us what they (supposedly)have been offered by other VTCA sides and from clubs from other comps. We just laugh and send em on their way. Money will kill local cricket.

If I get anymore cricket commitments Ill be a single man. (Cheaper than hiring lawyers I suppose) Tickets are $40 this year (more prizes than last yr), still some left and I look forward to 1, maybe 2 dozen beers with ya. Let Knighty know what number you want, or send reply to me and I'll fix it up
 
Re: payments

beached as;323732 said:
You raise a great point there. And I'm guessing there isn't a great range of juniors to choose from around your area for RPB, YP and PD.

Back to the drawing board!
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How have they been able to survive in the top grade for so long, is it the money or are well run clubs ?
If they are well run they be able to survive with a points system.
There has been good discussion anyway, well done to everyone so far.
 
Re: payments

Points system would be good for us.

we would have zero points.

P.Butterworth Junior
J.Bell been at club for over 10 years.
A.Ollington Junior
L.Ruberto Junior
Glen Linardon Junior
M.Barton Played juniors at dotta's but played seniors here since under 14's
A.Hogan Been at club 30 odd years
D.Hackney same as hoges
A.Bell been at club over 10 years
G.Handke Junior
I Robinson been at club at least 17 years
R.Iskra same as hackers and Hoges
E.Hunter junior.

I agree its getting harder to get new and good players.

I have spoken to a quite a few over the last 5 years and the money on offer is a bit of a joke. 10,000 just to play and not coach is one figure i got told.

I'm sure other clubs are have heard the same thing.

Not much VTCA can do because most things go under the table they would no like the rest of us that there are alot of clubs paying more the 2 players.

How can they catch them out?
 
Re: payments

I can lend some experience on the Royal Park located clubs...as a former player and administrator at RPBCC.

Firstly, these clubs operate on fairly tight budgets...and the presumption that money is splashed around is a little uninformed.

Most guys playing at these clubs are mates,family or a friend of a friend looking to play good cricket.

If you look at the current RPBCC Senior Div squad......

6 cricketers that are 3rd generation (Grandfather,Father, Son) players at the club. Contessa (3), Elleray (1) & Hillas (2)...all played seniors whilst juniors at other clubs....or did not play juniors anywhere....just cricket at RPBCC.

Mitchell...2nd generation player...played at the club since 12.

Tsonis..10+ years former Capt/Coach

Cue....5 years

Bowers/Maurice...former teammates of Hillas & Tsonis

Imports...usually one season and part of organised tour linked to the club, now been happening for 3 years....these guys generally aren't outright stars but add depth.

Others like Bloomfield, Boyle, Cox, Watson...all mates of the existing players or guys who walked in off the street looking for a game.

If you look at RPBCC history these type of players have been the reason the club continues to thrive.

Clubs like RPBCC generally rely on the friendships and comaradarie established...a lot of these guys could go to other clubs for money...or a lot more than what they are actually getting for coaching.
 
Re: payments

jika jika;323346 said:
Your right, success for local sporting clubs does not bring much extra revenue ( if any) but we can all list plenty of clubs in cricket and footy that have gone broke or had major problems caused by paying/promising money that they dont have and hope to generate. If a point system is instituted with rewards to clubs and players who stay loyal, the comp will even up. Being a successful club should be about good junior development and selective recruiting, not just offering more money to blokes to get them on board. Your club (or any other for that matter) shouldn't be penalised because your revenue streams are not as good as other clubs. Strong financial clubs will still be successful under a points system as they will still be able to recruit very good players, they just wont be able to add 2 or 3 top end players every year. Less financial clubs who develop juniors and research recruits with 3-4 year plans in mind will be able to compete and regularly defeat the richer clubs.
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I agree. You've really hit the nail on the head here. This is exactly what most clubs are all about. Let's get rid of the cheats and just have club V club, let's develop juniour players and play club cricket - if your in a league above - play a league above - it's time these money hungry district cricketers were shown the door!
 
Re: payments

So the points system is basically a limit on the amount of points (determined by the class of each player and years at the club the player has been at) in which a club can use. I'm liking this proposal because it works. Nothing can be done under the table because it doesn't take money into consideration but only points, which in most cases can be easily done.
 
Re: payments

Cricket Addict;336925 said:
So the points system is basically a limit on the amount of points (determined by the class of each player and years at the club the player has been at) in which a club can use. I'm liking this proposal because it works. Nothing can be done under the table because it doesn't take money into consideration but only points, which in most cases can be easily done.
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you guys are suggesting these points system to try even out the competition, but i worked it out, if you did the points system for apwstc, they are well and truly under 10. so dont know why everyone always mentions them as one of the teams the points system would be stuffing up.
 
Re: payments

crazycricket;337753 said:
you guys are suggesting these points system to try even out the competition, but i worked it out, if you did the points system for apwstc, they are well and truly under 10. so dont know why everyone always mentions them as one of the teams the points system would be stuffing up.
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As there is yet to be a proposal for clubs to view from the comp it is impossible to know who any system would favour or not in the short term. My view is that any system implemented cannot disadvantage any team (as happened in a comp in Geelong where a club was told they were unable to play the same x1 players they had used in the grand final the year before). If the comp tried to implement something like that it would never get through the club delegates. What it will hopefully do (over a period of 1-3 years) is stop all the gossip and inuendo about what clubs are supposedly paying and how many players they are paying. The total amount of payments or number of players being paid will become irrelevant to all other teams because you will only be allowed x number of points in your team each week. The system (hopefully) will reward teams that hold on to players for 3+ years and disadvantage clubs and players that "prostitute" each year. Clubs with money can spend it, but they wont be able to "top end" recruit every year unless they move on existing "top end" players. May not be a perfect system but has to be better than what is "supposedly" going on now
 
Re: payments

jika jika;338072 said:
As there is yet to be a proposal for clubs to view from the comp it is impossible to know who any system would favour or not in the short term. My view is that any system implemented cannot disadvantage any team (as happened in a comp in Geelong where a club was told they were unable to play the same x1 players they had used in the grand final the year before). If the comp tried to implement something like that it would never get through the club delegates. What it will hopefully do (over a period of 1-3 years) is stop all the gossip and inuendo about what clubs are supposedly paying and how many players they are paying. The total amount of payments or number of players being paid will become irrelevant to all other teams because you will only be allowed x number of points in your team each week. The system (hopefully) will reward teams that hold on to players for 3+ years and disadvantage clubs and players that "prostitute" each year. Clubs with money can spend it, but they wont be able to "top end" recruit every year unless they move on existing "top end" players. May not be a perfect system but has to be better than what is "supposedly" going on now
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I agree, what i have been told is it wont disadvantage any clubs in the first year like it did the Geelong comp
 
Re: payments

The VTCA Executive have just sent an email confirming that a Points System will be in place for the 2009/10 season. There will be a series of meetings over the next 3 weeks for clubs to attend for the system to be introduced and explained !!
 
Re: payments

I wonder if this will be the end of the 2 overseas player rule,will overseas players attract points,if so how many?and if they do it shouldn't matter how many you play if you can fit them in under the points cap.
 
Re: payments

Your very bad, you have only ever been allowed to play one overseas player in your 1sts, but you could play as many as you want in lower X1's
 
Re: payments

southern sledge;339162 said:
Your very bad, you have only ever been allowed to play one overseas player in your 1sts, but you could play as many as you want in lower X1's
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G'Day Gents

This has always been a bug bear of of mine... I think there needs to be some wholesale changes to this antiquated rule. Using my own club as an example, we have 1 international player in our 1s - he is not paid by the way - and 2 blokes in our second X1 that are seriously good cricketers, but because they are here on a student visa, they cant play 1s. These are 2 blokes that have been in the country for 3 years and are trying to get their PR. I think discretion needs to be used.

The points system could be the greatest leveller of all. Many blokes on here profess that paid cricketers make this comp strong... Fair enough to a degree. What about the down side? All year we have heard of certain mercanaries that flog themselves off to the highest bidder.

Should smaller clubs like mine with minimal money that only pay a CC have no chance of making it to Senior Division because we cant afford a fistful of guns??? I think a stronger and more even comp would have helped us retain a number of the clubs that we lost in previous years...

I'm certainly a fan of the points system though. If one of the monster clubs needs to spend $30k to use up their 20 odd points and we can do the same for $5k, then im all for it...

Just my 2c worth though...
 
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