Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

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Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

LIONS then DAYLIGHT;379387 said:
I have said it many times before, only after Ponting retires will we truly recognize what a great batsmen he was and what a determined captain he was.
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I wish you'd stop conflating the two. I have never, ever seen anyone deny that Ponting is one of the greatest batsmen Australia has ever produced. He is not underappreciated in the slightest as a player, never has been.

Criticism of him as a tactical captain is, however, extremely justifiable and a completely seperate matter. He's not certainly not the worst one going around, but he's pretty pedestrian. If history smiles on him it will be purely because of his winning percentage, and possibly because Clarke is going to be even worse.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

Caesar;379396 said:
Criticism of him as a tactical captain is, however, extremely justifiable and a completely seperate matter. He's not certainly not the worst one going around, but he's pretty pedestrian. If history smiles on him it will be purely because of his winning percentage, and possibly because Clarke is going to be even worse.
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I don't think it's as black and white as that - the situation Ponting has inherited since he took over the leadership role is quite unique - I can't think of any previous captain who has gone from having so many great players at his command too, and lets be honest, a side full of a number of modest players.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

Fleming and Vettori have been performing miracles with rubbish players for years, to name just two of his contemporaries.

If Ponting got too used to having exceptional players to win games for him so that he never really had to bother learning good tactics, that's his own lookout.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

Another myth right there - Fleming and Vettori performing "miracles for years" is nothing but misleading hyperbole.

Ever since the home Australian summer of 01/02 when Australia played NZ in a 3 match test series the notion that Fleming was a miracle worker has been pedelled. Fact is, rain saved NZ from being hammered in the first two matchs before a massive first innings at the WACA nearly allowed the Kiwis to push for an unlikely victory.

Sorry, you have been found wanting champ.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

Your evidence of one test from nearly 10 years ago has not found anybody wanting, 'champ'. Fleming was considered a fantastic captain by pretty much everybody in the cricketing world, not least for his ability to get the best out of an average team. Same goes for Vettori. Opinions about Ponting are mixed at best, but nobody would seriously argue that he should be remembered as anything other than a batting great and a passable captain.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

I'm not joining any side of the argument, just want to add something to it.

Yes it's right that Ponting had a side of legends to captain, but you still have the same job as a captain, you still have to captain a side of legends. If you have Warne, McGrath, Lee and Gillespie all in form and all getting wickets as happened on many occasions, its a hard choice between which one will get the 5fa first.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

LIONS then DAYLIGHT;379387 said:
I've never seen excuses thrown up from Ponting after a series has been lost - rather just honest observations. He has never blamed umpires - and there is no doubt umpiring in the most recent Ashes series was deplorable at times, while the impact of umpiring in the 2005 Ashes was just as significant.

Conversely, the treatment Ponting has recieved at times from Australian based journos has been disgraceful, some of the stuff printed this time last year was a case in point.

I have said it many times before, only after Ponting retires will we truly recognize what a great batsmen he was and what a determined captain he was.
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It's often more what he doesn't say than what he does. You can sometimes read between the lines, as the press has in the past. Like I said, he has tightened up his presentation, but he's going to have to live with the way he handled 2005 & thereabouts, which wasn't great.

I too recognise what he is right now. A truly great batsman, and I don't doubt one bit he is incredibly determined as a captain.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

a for effort;379449 said:
Your evidence of one test from nearly 10 years ago has not found anybody wanting, 'champ'. Fleming was considered a fantastic captain by pretty much everybody in the cricketing world, not least for his ability to get the best out of an average team. Same goes for Vettori. Opinions about Ponting are mixed at best, but nobody would seriously argue that he should be remembered as anything other than a batting great and a passable captain.
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Yep, remember when McGrath and Gillespie put on 100+ with Fleming as captain? Something similar happens to use with Duminy and Steyn and Ponting is roundly abused?

Double standards? Or just a selective memory.

Fleming was a good captain no doubt, but the notion that he performed miracles is a bit rich. New Zealand were always a strong team at home, especially against the Asian teams who struggled with the extra movement in NZ wickets circa 2001 - 2003. NZ always grew a leg against Australia, but this thing about Fleming and being a superstar captain grew legs in 01/02.

NZ nearly stole a test series after rain ruined the first two matchs, in which NZ would have copped a right hammering if rain hadn't intervened. Furthermore, in the subsequent VB series that summer NZ flogged us in 3 out of 4 ODI's, with Martyn struggling to score against balls aimed outside off to a packed offside field.

Many people cite that series as evidence of Fleming's captainicy credentials, im simply pointing out that it wasn't as black and white as some are trying to argue.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

Sober Symonds;379488 said:
It's often more what he doesn't say than what he does. You can sometimes read between the lines, as the press has in the past. Like I said, he has tightened up his presentation, but he's going to have to live with the way he handled 2005 & thereabouts, which wasn't great.

I too recognise what he is right now. A truly great batsman, and I don't doubt one bit he is incredibly determined as a captain.
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ANd you'd rather a few cliche's?

Ponting is never far wrong with what he says, it may not be the most diplomatic line about the better team winning and what not, but his nearly always spot on.

"live with the way he handled 2005", **** you make it sound like his murdered someone, "your going to have to live with your actions for the rest of your life". I mean, give me a break, it's a cricket game FFS.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

A lot of the 'abuse' Ponting got in England was just pantomime. In fact, he is very well respected over here as shown by the ovation he got at the Oval.

He was also gracious in defeat and tends to be just that after the game. I must say though, I really hate his constant barracking of Umpires and questioning of their decisions on the pitch.

When they used up the two challenges in the WI's second innings, he was still arguing once the third umpire had agreed with the on-field Umpire! No wonder Mark Benson decided to quit having to put up with that!

By the way Golden Boy Shane Watson will probably be the next captain. For some reason he appears to be rated higher than Bradman
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

Come of it, I saw one guy abusing Ponting as he walked off after being dismissed during the 3rd test, some tanked up clown abusing him as he walked up a race. Some of the articles written during the series about Ponting were also deplorable considering there isn't a player in either team who is in his class as a batsmen or a cricketer.

Ponting and disagreeing with umpires has been going on for years, he doesn't give a stuff what anyone thinks, sure it looks bad on TV, but I think most of the time it's all in good fun.

Golden Boy Watson still isn't rated as high as Golden Boy Stuey Broad.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

Also, it's pretty easy to give someone a standing ovation once the game is all but won.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

Is that the way it sounded? It's not how I intended, but since you've raised it, I guess this illustrates just how someone's words can be construed by those who want to see them in a different light!!!

I'm not talking about Ponting declining to use cliches. He probably does, and I'm with you in not wanting to hear them either way. It's difficult to define here, but if he gave a post-match early on, Ponting lacked a little of the humility to give due credit where an expectant audience wanted to hear it. Instead he might have held a brave front and promise revenge rather than concede the better team won, etc.

Besides, the minor tantrums such as remonstrating with umpires, cursing a misfield or blaming Duncan Fletcher for him being run out, etc. are actions the public will pick up on and never let him forget. He's not as animated now, and has learnt well. Still, some things stay with him in the eyes of the press. That's life as Aussie captain.

On the other point, Shane Warne whilst still playing stated that Fleming was the best captain in world cricket. A back-hander to Steve Waugh, yes, but a decent endorsement for an astute leader.

Finally, in response to: "I can't think of any previous captain who has gone from having so many great players at his command too ... a side full of a number of modest players". I can - Kim Hughes!
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

Settle down Mrs Ponting!

The same happened at Headingley after the Aussies WON.

As has been stated, Ponting's class as a batsman is not in question and no article I have read has ever said otherwise.

As a captain, his class as a batsman is not relevant, but it is quite clear that he is no Brearley
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

Yep, lets play a guy that would struggle to get into Culford first eleven on playing ability as captain, what a disgrace.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

One of you guys is Rodney Hogg Im sure of it.

"Don't judge him when he inherited a great Australian team. Judge him in the recent transitional period when, prior to the West Indies, we have lost three of our past five series"

"Hogg was concerned the Test side is being picked on personalities and friendships rather than looking ahead and said Ponting had a huge input on team selection."

That is straight out of Bigfooty - Cousin Jed? Sean?

This is the best bit but.

"We have reached the stage where you don't get a look in as a batsman until you are 29-30. There is a batsman in Tasmania called George Bailey who can play, but he has to be picked now as a 27-year-old.

"Under Ponting it has become a boys' club, a side that is impossible to break into. Take a risk and pick a kid like (Western Australia's) Mitchell Marsh for a couple of one-day games."

Why the **** would we pick some kid called Mitchell Marsh when our ODI team is fine? Furthermore, who the **** is George Bailey? This is mindboggling.

Rodney Hogg calls for Katich to take over as captain | Herald Sun
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

^ lmao, that's sooo much like your typical Big Footy post it's not funny. Mitch Marsh has played what, 5 domestic games and is 18? He'll play for Australia one day but that's just ridiculous and although Bailey was a bit of a surprise he's been in good form. 27 is hardly ancient as a Cricketer.
 
Re: Possible campaign to remove Ponting from test captainicy by Sydney Morning Herald

Thats what I immediately thought when I read it. To think that that shit actually got published.
 
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