Potential Backspin Variation?

[CancelledUser2014]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1399133283664862&l=6942858181695581165

That's the leg spin bowler who plays for the first xi at my club. Those deliveries are what he calls "die balls" He has an unusual grip, he holds the ball with all his fingers wrapped around the ball but still gets reasonable revs with it and drift. His googly spins a bit more than his leg break, and I think it's because he uses more wrist than fingers in his bowling. He asked me to show you this video and would like to know if you think he could use this as an effective backspin variation.

He bowls it like the slider, but with more backspin and slower so that it grips a bit and slows down significantly after pitching if he gets it right. They "die" or "stall", they also drift a bit through the air so it can be mistaken for a leg break quite easily. He is still working on it, but the die ball is already a good occasional variation, especially against tail-enders / sloggers.

This is a turning pitch and he got a bit of side spin on it accidentally, that's why most of them turned.



Skip to 2:50, Steve Smith's third wicket is the same ball, but his is faster and not meant to stall like the die ball.

PS. Can anyone think of a better name for the "die ball" ?

 

[SLA]

Steve Smith's 3rd wicket looked like a topspinner to me:

Edit: no, on closer inspection its a regulation slider, looks very similar to Warne's and Macgill's.

 

[SLA]

 

[CancelledUser2014]

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Yes it was a ball palmed from the front of the hand, I think his had a bit more revs on it than Warne and Macgill's sliders because it looked like he really flicked the ball with his wrist. The "die ball" is similar, but with even more revs and bowled slower.

 

[leftie600]

Excuse me being a bit rude about this. all variations should be explored, but how is this more useful than a slower leg break with a lot of overspin which is far easier to bowl? To bowl a ball that slow against tougher opponents is cannon fodder in my experience.

Hope your friend can turn it into something useful but so far it isn't that convincing.

 

[CancelledUser2014]

Excuse me being a bit rude about this. all variations should be explored, but how is this more useful than a slower leg break with a lot of overspin which is far easier to bowl? To bowl a ball that slow against tougher opponents is cannon fodder in my experience.

Hope your friend can turn it into something useful but so far it isn't that convincing.

Just remember what you saw in that video was his first attempt at bowling it. You would have said much worse things about Shane Warne's first attempts at the flipper!

Let me explain: He can't bowl a square spinning leg break, only an overspinning leg break with 45 degrees side spin. His googly is devastating and also has plenty of top spin. His top spinner is quite good and he can bowl an Afridi-like faster ball. He needs a backspinning delivery that he can use to good effect, just varying his pace (which he already does) isn't enough.

At our level batsmen can't pick anything, and I really mean ANYTHING, if you bowl an off break (without even trying to disguise your action) they will be totally bamboozled and shout things like "oh what a doosra" or "chinaman!!!" among other things...

If he can land the "die ball" on middle stump (same line as his leg break) even the best batsmen will allow for some turn and get beaten on the inside of the bat. Most of the left handers will also be flummoxed and probably nick it to slip. It works best against the lesser batsmen, because it slows down to such extent that they will very rarely get it over the boundary.

I never said that he intended to try and get Sachin Tendulkar out with it, it's just a potential wicket taker against the spin dyslexic batsmen at our level. Against the good players of spin he'll bowl it faster, more like a slider, but there are very few batsmen that will be able to resist a slow, loopy backspinner

 

[SLA]

Trying new variations is admittedly fun, but you only really need 1 or perhaps 2 max. You're better off perfecting those than constantly fiddling around with new stuff.

If you look here:
http://www.pitchvision.com/4-plus-2-tools-all-spinners-can-use-to-get-wickets
(I notice your name in the comments Jacques)

You will see the four combinations of topspin/backspin and pace variation. Personally I think the least effective of the 4 is the backspin/slower combo. I just don't see it being a regular wicket taking ball.

 

[CancelledUser2014]

Trying new variations is admittedly fun, but you only really need 1 or perhaps 2 max. You're better off perfecting those than constantly fiddling around with new stuff.

If you look here:
http://www.pitchvision.com/4-plus-2-tools-all-spinners-can-use-to-get-wickets
(I notice your name in the comments Jacques)

You will see the four combinations of topspin/backspin and pace variation. Personally I think the least effective of the 4 is the backspin/slower combo. I just don't see it being a regular wicket taking ball.

It's not meant to take wickets regularly. But if a batsman isn't getting out to you no matter what you try you have to use each of the combinations to find his weakness. I've taken 3 wickets this season (against number 1-4 batsmen) with my backspinning leg break which is admittedly a bit slower than my topspinning leg break. Remember here in South Africa we have lots of green pitches which allow seam, swing and bounce for the pace bowlers, but not much turn for the spinners. (of course there are exceptions) If you bowl a backspinner on one of these pitches it will swing, seam a bit and keep very low if you bowl it slower. That makes the backspin / slower combo very effective. Overspun deliveries tend to bounce ridiculously high, so high that they become ineffective. Side spin and backspin is usually the way to go. On some pitches however, overspin kicks and bounces but at the perfect height which causes the batsman problems and backspin doesn't stay low. So it all depends on the type of pitch, and at our level there are pitches which are very conducive to backspin!

 

[45DegreeLeggy]

Excuse me being a bit rude about this. all variations should be explored, but how is this more useful than a slower leg break with a lot of overspin which is far easier to bowl? To bowl a ball that slow against tougher opponents is cannon fodder in my experience.

Hope your friend can turn it into something useful but so far it isn't that convincing.

Hi SLA . Like my friend said it's intended for tail end batsmen , not good batsmen . And of course I'm still working on it . Jacques never said it is going to be my main wicket taking ball lol !! And like you said it is cannon fodder in your experience , not necessarily true then , but thanks anyway , I shall work on this ball till I can get it right .