Small Club Cricket Captaincy - How To?

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someblokecalleddave

someblokecalleddave

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This coming Thursday at our pre-season players meeting, it sounds as though I'm going to be nominated and voted in as the 4th XI captain. :eek:

Running up to this event, it's been rumoured that there's not enough players to have a 4th XI, as several key players in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd XI's have bailed out for one reason or another leaving a situation where the 4ths are going to significantly short of adult players. But... in the U16's and U15's there's a lot of lads that are gagging to play cricket and last year several of them were gutted to miss out on 4th XI games and their parents were very unimpressed with the way the selections were made and how team captains over-looked their kids. So, it appears to be the case that our 4th XI can easily put a team together, but it's going to have a very young look to it and a lot of inexperience and with me at the helm a very inexperienced captain.

I've already done some research on the interwebs and the best thing I've come across so far is David Hinchcliffes pitchvision website but any additional advice would be appreciated.

My main concerns are things like what happens if you've got 11 blokes and no-one can score or no-ones got the confidence to umpire or they make horrific mistakes when they umpire? I don't want us to end up being a total joke!

I know I've got a bit less than 2 months to get things sorted and for all I know there may be some experienced blokes in the team that might not have the time or desire to be the captain, but will be there to help out with some of the stuff I'm concerned with.

Anyone been in this situation themselves?
 
someblokecalleddave said:
This coming Thursday at our pre-season players meeting, it sounds as though I'm going to be nominated and voted in as the 4th XI captain. :eek:

Running up to this event, it's been rumoured that there's not enough players to have a 4th XI, as several key players in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd XI's have bailed out for one reason or another leaving a situation where the 4ths are going to significantly short of adult players. But... in the U16's and U15's there's a lot of lads that are gagging to play cricket and last year several of them were gutted to miss out on 4th XI games and their parents were very unimpressed with the way the selections were made and how team captains over-looked their kids. So, it appears to be the case that our 4th XI can easily put a team together, but it's going to have a very young look to it and a lot of inexperience and with me at the helm a very inexperienced captain.

I've already done some research on the interwebs and the best thing I've come across so far is David Hinchcliffes pitchvision website but any additional advice would be appreciated.

My main concerns are things like what happens if you've got 11 blokes and no-one can score or no-ones got the confidence to umpire or they make horrific mistakes when they umpire? I don't want us to end up being a total joke!

I know I've got a bit less than 2 months to get things sorted and for all I know there may be some experienced blokes in the team that might not have the time or desire to be the captain, but will be there to help out with some of the stuff I'm concerned with.

Anyone been in this situation themselves?
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I've captained various rubbish teams in the past.

You only need 1 bloke who can umpire, the other lad can just do the square leg end.

I would hope U16s know how to score.

Its about getting the balance right between giving everyone a game, trying to make it a fun, relaxed environment, and taking it seriously enough to give yourself a chance of winning.
 
Dave, I was in a similar position a couple of years ago so feel free to drop me a pm whenever and I will try to help where possible.

As SLA says, only really need one 'real' umpire with others filling in at square leg, although it is always worth trying to have at least 3 people who are 'happy' umpiring within the side and then adjusting your batting order to suit (no use if they are your top three batters and most likely to be taking up the bulk of your overs - if this is the case see if one is happy to drop to 5-6 with a specific 'development' role to help by batting with the youngsters). This brings me on to my big bugbear and something you need to establish from the off - are you a competitive or developmental side? Although they are not mutually exclusive and its very much a continuum, it is something that needs to be clear to all parties. If competitive then the kids need to be aware that opportunities may sometimes be limited due to the state of the game, likewise if you are going more down the developmental route then you need buy-in from the adults that there may be times when the benefit to a younger lad might come above the outcome of the game (or batting / bowling opportunity for an older player). Given that your club has an established youth structure, I would hope the developmental route may be an easier sell, in which case you could try to get a few of the adults in the team to take a bit of responsibility over and above scoring runs and taking wickets, such as leading the bowlers or talking to batters 1-to-1, this may also take a bit of pressure of yourself if there is a 'bowlers leader' who will help when you are in the field - not just who and when to bowl, but junior restrictions etc to consider.

Let us know how it goes at the meeting. PS scoring isn't difficult and again try and get a few who are capable and will rotate round rather than rely on an individual(s), perhaps if the junior coach runs an indoor game or an open field practice game allocate everyone to score it for a couple of overs. You could also have the juniors help score their junior matches (more likely to be more adult help and support knocking around than at an adult game)
 
Generally, only one umpire is required... ask the other team to provide the second umpire.

As Tony says, by using the colts, you may find a lot more help from the parents in the way of scoring and umpiring. If the parents are interested enough to be unimpressed by the past situation, they may be interested enough to put some time in. After all, it is a cricket club... not a child minding charity!

From my experience, U16s and U15s are far better players, more disciplined and skilled than most adult 4th IXs so you should be flying!!! Good luck Dave x
 
Generally, we do not tend to use players to umpire, score, provide first aid, teas, press reports... usually wives, fathers, mothers, VPs, committee members etc. If you put on a course, there are usually lots of people willing to get involved. Cricket tends to be a community thing.
 
Liz, if only that were true. There are many clubs where finding 11 to field for the 2nds (insert lowest level team as applicable) is a hard enough struggle (and I would include asking all the categories you listed) let alone finding a 'spare' to perform any other role such as umpire, score, provide first aid, teas, press reports. Its sad but true and, if the local leagues are anything to go by, its getting harder each season. We can all list various reasons why that might be the case and perhaps not fully involving those 'other' groups might be a reason, but the fact is that if Dave finds a 'keen' dad who is happy umpire and/or score he may well end up asking him if he wants a game when he can only find 10 on a Saturday lunchtime.
 
TonyM said:
Liz, if only that were true. There are many clubs where finding 11 to field for the 2nds (insert lowest level team as applicable) is a hard enough struggle (and I would include asking all the categories you listed) let alone finding a 'spare' to perform any other role such as umpire, score, provide first aid, teas, press reports. Its sad but true and, if the local leagues are anything to go by, its getting harder each season. We can all list various reasons why that might be the case and perhaps not fully involving those 'other' groups might be a reason, but the fact is that if Dave finds a 'keen' dad who is happy umpire and/or score he may well end up asking him if he wants a game when he can only find 10 on a Saturday lunchtime.
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Then I must consider my experience as a privilege! Or perhaps I need to educate you in the art of Blackmail! :D
 
SLA said:
I've captained various rubbish teams in the past.

You only need 1 bloke who can umpire, the other lad can just do the square leg end.

I would hope U16s know how to score.

Its about getting the balance right between giving everyone a game, trying to make it a fun, relaxed environment, and taking it seriously enough to give yourself a chance of winning.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd like to think that U16's had an interest in learning to score let along know how to do it! To be fair one or two normally do, but with 8 key players having gone over the winter a lot of the usual lads are being taken through to the 3rds and 2nds. My younger son Joe can do it fairly well, but whether he's confident enough I'm not sure, we were both having a practice at the weekend during one of the T20 games on the tele and didn't do too bad.
 
TonyM said:
Dave, I was in a similar position a couple of years ago so feel free to drop me a pm whenever and I will try to help where possible.

As SLA says, only really need one 'real' umpire with others filling in at square leg, although it is always worth trying to have at least 3 people who are 'happy' umpiring within the side and then adjusting your batting order to suit (no use if they are your top three batters and most likely to be taking up the bulk of your overs - if this is the case see if one is happy to drop to 5-6 with a specific 'development' role to help by batting with the youngsters). This brings me on to my big bugbear and something you need to establish from the off - are you a competitive or developmental side? Although they are not mutually exclusive and its very much a continuum, it is something that needs to be clear to all parties. If competitive then the kids need to be aware that opportunities may sometimes be limited due to the state of the game, likewise if you are going more down the developmental route then you need buy-in from the adults that there may be times when the benefit to a younger lad might come above the outcome of the game (or batting / bowling opportunity for an older player). Given that your club has an established youth structure, I would hope the developmental route may be an easier sell, in which case you could try to get a few of the adults in the team to take a bit of responsibility over and above scoring runs and taking wickets, such as leading the bowlers or talking to batters 1-to-1, this may also take a bit of pressure of yourself if there is a 'bowlers leader' who will help when you are in the field - not just who and when to bowl, but junior restrictions etc to consider.

Let us know how it goes at the meeting. PS scoring isn't difficult and again try and get a few who are capable and will rotate round rather than rely on an individual(s), perhaps if the junior coach runs an indoor game or an open field practice game allocate everyone to score it for a couple of overs. You could also have the juniors help score their junior matches (more likely to be more adult help and support knocking around than at an adult game)
Click to expand...

I get the sense that this is a developmental side, last summer we won the league with the 4ths and that was taking a very laid back approach to it - bringing kids on and giving them a go, there was an ethos of wanting to win, but it wasn't at any real cost as I recall, it just happened, we just kept winning for the most part, it may have been a self perpetuating confidence thing? I'll have to talk to the management/selectors and see what they say. I did raise some concerns and so far it's all very supportive and they're luring me in!!!
 
Liz Ward said:
Generally, only one umpire is required... ask the other team to provide the second umpire.

As Tony says, by using the colts, you may find a lot more help from the parents in the way of scoring and umpiring. If the parents are interested enough to be unimpressed by the past situation, they may be interested enough to put some time in. After all, it is a cricket club... not a child minding charity!

From my experience, U16s and U15s are far better players, more disciplined and skilled than most adult 4th IXs so you should be flying!!! Good luck Dave x
Click to expand...

The parents are definitely on board, but whether they're cricket families with those skill sets I'm not so sure (It's South Essex - football country)!
 
TonyM said:
Liz, if only that were true. There are many clubs where finding 11 to field for the 2nds (insert lowest level team as applicable) is a hard enough struggle (and I would include asking all the categories you listed) let alone finding a 'spare' to perform any other role such as umpire, score, provide first aid, teas, press reports. Its sad but true and, if the local leagues are anything to go by, its getting harder each season. We can all list various reasons why that might be the case and perhaps not fully involving those 'other' groups might be a reason, but the fact is that if Dave finds a 'keen' dad who is happy umpire and/or score he may well end up asking him if he wants a game when he can only find 10 on a Saturday lunchtime.
Click to expand...

Yeah - Tony's nailed it there! I know I'm going to be asking passers-by if they want a game or if they've got any idea of how to score a cricket game! Last year we were playing with 8 blokes in some games, one of the last games we had 8 blokes and two of them had pulled hamstrings and calf muscles when they batted and had to field with their injuries later in the game!!! I'm already emailing everyone I know that'll fancy a game or two - blokes at work from the original MPA 1st XI, just thinking now - I've realised I should get on Facebook and message all my mates from Tilbury and see if they'd be up for it, as they put together a team a few years ago and helped me out a few times with the MPA 1st XI team. Tony... where do you live again?;)
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Yeah - Tony's nailed it there! I know I'm going to be asking passers-by if they want a game or if they've got any idea of how to score a cricket game! Last year we were playing with 8 blokes in some games, one of the last games we had 8 blokes and two of them had pulled hamstrings and calf muscles when they batted and had to field with their injuries later in the game!!! I'm already emailing everyone I know that'll fancy a game or two - blokes at work from the original MPA 1st XI, just thinking now - I've realised I should get on Facebook and message all my mates from Tilbury and see if they'd be up for it, as they put together a team a few years ago and helped me out a few times with the MPA 1st XI team. Tony... where do you live again?;)
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Sorry Dave, my Saturdays are spoken for (full fixture list from 3rd May through to 30th August) and its realistically my last season playing in the same team as Ollie, cricket is great in the respect that dads can play with their lads, but the writing is on the wall! I think you are starting to see the main requirement of captaining at that level - getting 11 out each week can be difficult and whilst the club may sound supportive at present, don't expect that to continue into the season when someone drops out of the 1sts, 2nds or 3rds on a Saturday morning (they all NEED 11, you would just LIKE 11!), so having a really good address book is far more use than any Brearley type qualities. If you are having a meeting this week, you could suggest the club has a look at www.teamer.net we introduced it to our senior club last season after I had used it for a couple of years with the juniors - it needs buy-in from players but saves a hell of a lot of texting on the captain's part (in our set up it also allows all captains to see all teams so helps identify potential problems earlier, but again it only works if the players do their bit). If you need a demo, drop me a pm and I will run through it in more detail.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
The parents are definitely on board, but whether they're cricket families with those skill sets I'm not so sure (It's South Essex - football country)!
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Probably one of the reasons my district is one of the best rural areas in the country... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ions-factors-including-employment-health.html

I wish there were photos of the cricket pitches... lush green grass, white painted picket fences and the teas are to die for; from cream scones to every cake imaginable including Victoria Sandwich to make you dream of days gone by... and, of course, the Sun always shines! What better way to spend a weekend than at the cricket ground? ;)

Unfortunately, we are a little poor when it comes to football but we can hold our own on any rugby field!
 
TonyM said:
Sorry Dave, my Saturdays are spoken for (full fixture list from 3rd May through to 30th August) and its realistically my last season playing in the same team as Ollie, cricket is great in the respect that dads can play with their lads, but the writing is on the wall! I think you are starting to see the main requirement of captaining at that level - getting 11 out each week can be difficult and whilst the club may sound supportive at present, don't expect that to continue into the season when someone drops out of the 1sts, 2nds or 3rds on a Saturday morning (they all NEED 11, you would just LIKE 11!), so having a really good address book is far more use than any Brearley type qualities. If you are having a meeting this week, you could suggest the club has a look at www.teamer.net we introduced it to our senior club last season after I had used it for a couple of years with the juniors - it needs buy-in from players but saves a hell of a lot of texting on the captain's part (in our set up it also allows all captains to see all teams so helps identify potential problems earlier, but again it only works if the players do their bit). If you need a demo, drop me a pm and I will run through it in more detail.
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Yeah I guessed that would be the case - all wrapped in bows and ribbons at the moment and then of the day more like an abyss. Yeah - mobile phones and texting, yeah that's not for me either - what did they used to do before mobile phones? I can see me getting the right hump with this! With regards to the website you've linked is that simply to indicate who's in the team and whether they're up for playing? We have a system like it I think, whereby you're selected on Wednesday and you're listed in the team and then you have to indicate ASAP on the website whether you're going to play, so you can see who's status has been updated and you get a sense of who is/isn't going to play as Saturday gets nearer. If you have a look on Friday night and you know you've not got 11, you can see if you're in trouble or not, I guess you can look at the 2nd and 3rd team as well and get a sense if it's going to get worse and on Sat morning your players are going to be transferred to those teams?
 
Yep, thats the idea. Obviously its only as reliable as the blokes who use it, but make sure you have access to the team(s) above you to head off any problems not of your own making and communication with the captain of the 3rds will be crucial both in terms of shortages and who he might want to take (not your umpires!) and also on a more general level in terms of moving players up and down depending on form
 
In terms of umpiring you should get the older players in the side to do the central umpire role. Young guys and kids who do it tend to give players out too easily (especially when they aren't out) as the other side will appeal for longer or harder in an effort to get them to make a decision. Older, more experienced players are less likely to make such calls. The younger players can easily rotate through square leg, there are less responsibilities there and less decisions to make which makes that role perfect for a younger player.

You should also get the younger players to score when you can, especially if they haven't before. Getting them to score with someone who has done it before is a great way to teach them how to score a game and scoring with someone they know is a good way to train them up.

The last aspect I think is to make the side fun. Given you're playing 4th XI which is the last team in your club you're going to get stuck with the "less desirable" players so putting an emphasis on fun and enjoyment is a great way to build team morale and friendships even if the scoreboard isn't going in your favour.
 
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TBH, the downside of being a 4th team in a big club rather than the 1st or 2nd team in a smaller club, are that the higher teams can steal your players at the last minute, so surely there must be some kind of upside? Can the club not provide you with someone to umpire etc?

I never see the point of forming a 3rd, 4th team etc. You need a 2nd ground to play on, you might as well just start a new club with less of the hassle.
 
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