Small Club Cricket Captaincy - How To?

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someblokecalleddave said:
One of my worries is that I'll be walking out to a match with no-one able to score, so I'm trying to learn now - watching full IPl matches on youtube and scoring them. I've just seen this scenario.

Bat hits the ball with the intention of a single, runs the single and in the meantime fielder picks up the ball and has a go at the stumps. Ball misses the stumps and there's no-one there backing up and the ball goes for 4. So the total including the run is 5.

If the bats had set off to run two and batsman runs more than 1/2 the length of the wicket before the ball hits the boundary rope would that be 2 runs plus the boundary 4 or does he have to get back to the crease before it can count as a second run?
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The question is, did the batsman cross for the second run before the throw was initiated?

From http://www.lords.org/mcc/laws-of-cricket/laws/law-19-boundaries/

7. Overthrow or wilful act of fielder

If the boundary results from an overthrow or from the wilful act of a fielder the runs scored shall be
(i) any runs for penalties awarded to either side
and (ii) the allowance for the boundary
and (iii) the runs completed by the batsmen, together with the run in progress if they had already crossed at the instant of the throw or act.
There's another question that arises out of this depending on the answer to the above.

Q - The bowler bowls catches the ball off a bump ball, turns and hits the stumps with a throw and runs out the batsman - does that go in his bowling figures as a wicket?
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No, this would simply be a 'run out', whether it's the batsman on strike or the other one being dismissed. There is no credit for 'run outs' in the bowling analysis whoever does them. The special case is stumping. It is only the wicketkeeper who may 'stump' a batsman.
 
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someblokecalleddave said:
Yeah I reckon I'll be okay with the scoring. I've got a couple of umpiring books now - Tom Smith and the 'You are the umpire' book, had a look through those and will continue reading.
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I had to score last Saturday. It's one of those things that is really not straightforward to do perfectly. That NZ scorers link has some very good advice. The problem is getting the batsman on strike correct (binoculars good idea!) and also having a fixed routine so that you don't miss out a section. Really annoying adding up at the end to find that a couple of runs went missing somewhere!

Do you have a smartphone? If so, there's cricket scoring apps which I think it's quite possible to umpire and score at the same time with. Beauty is you only have to input the result of the ball once, whereas in a conventional scorebook you have four sections to keep regularly updated and they all have to match.
 
boogiespinner said:
I had to score last Saturday. It's one of those things that is really not straightforward to do perfectly. That NZ scorers link has some very good advice. The problem is getting the batsman on strike correct (binoculars good idea!) and also having a fixed routine so that you don't miss out a section. Really annoying adding up at the end to find that a couple of runs went missing somewhere!

Do you have a smartphone? If so, there's cricket scoring apps which I think it's quite possible to umpire and score at the same time with. Beauty is you only have to input the result of the ball once, whereas in a conventional scorebook you have four sections to keep regularly updated and they all have to match.
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No I don't do mobile phones, especially smart ones! Yeah there's a knack to it for sure, you have to get into a rhythm and for me I can't get distracted otherwise it'll all go wrong. But I'm a lot more confident about it now than I was a few months ago.
 
I've been looking into the idea of using really short spells to maximise the chances of getting wickets. Empirically, it seems to me that bowlers take wickets far more frequently in the first 2 or 3 overs. By the 4th over the batsman is beginning to get a sense of the bowlers capabilities and negates the possibility of a wicket to some extent by virtue of attacking with increasing confidence or taking a more defensive approach. Just watching cricket on the television I'm sure that we're all aware that wickets are taken when a new bowler comes on or play is disrupted by some other aspect of the game - breaks etc in play.

At the moment I've not got access to any scorebooks to look at the data for our 4th XI for the last season or older to check this out, but, what I have got is photos of many of the scorebook pages from the games I've played in over the last few years on my blog. I'm only looking at the data for the first 4 overs of the bowling spells and so far I've looked at data for 71 bowling performances mainly from 4th XI games. The data so far...

In the bowlers 1st over (Sample of 71 first overs) 18 wickets are taken and 300 runs are made = Strike rate of 23.00
In 2nd over 21 wickets are taken and 311 runs are made = Strike rate of 20.20
In the 3rd over 20 wickets are taken for 276 runs = strike rate of 21.30
The 4th over 11 wickets are taken for 282 run = strike rate of 38.7

To me as a novice captain the conclusion seems pretty obvious - bowl all of your bowlers in two over spells. There's another factor that weighs in favour of this approach and that's the saying S**t bowling gets wickets. Most bowlers will readily admit to not being able to get into their rhythm until 2-3 overs, so it strikes me that the initial wayward bowling in the first overs as they settle causes problems for the batsmen looking to get off the mark. As the bowling settles down, the scoring rate drops markedly, but then so does the wicket taking capacity... Time to bring on another bowler? The data at the moment would suggest if all of the bowlers bowled three overs they would do so with a strike rate potential of one wicket in each spell almost (21.5).
10 wickets at a rate of one every 21.5 ball would mean the opposition would be out in 36 overs.

The data I've used so far would average out at 4.11 an over so the opposition would be bowled out for 148. Which is a lot better than the performances to-date!
 
someblokecalleddave said:
I've been looking into the idea of using really short spells to maximise the chances of getting wickets. Empirically, it seems to me that bowlers take wickets far more frequently in the first 2 or 3 overs. By the 4th over the batsman is beginning to get a sense of the bowlers capabilities and negates the possibility of a wicket to some extent by virtue of attacking with increasing confidence or taking a more defensive approach. Just watching cricket on the television I'm sure that we're all aware that wickets are taken when a new bowler comes on or play is disrupted by some other aspect of the game - breaks etc in play.

At the moment I've not got access to any scorebooks to look at the data for our 4th XI for the last season or older to check this out, but, what I have got is photos of many of the scorebook pages from the games I've played in over the last few years on my blog. I'm only looking at the data for the first 4 overs of the bowling spells and so far I've looked at data for 71 bowling performances mainly from 4th XI games. The data so far...

In the bowlers 1st over (Sample of 71 first overs) 18 wickets are taken and 300 runs are made = Strike rate of 23.00
In 2nd over 21 wickets are taken and 311 runs are made = Strike rate of 20.20
In the 3rd over 20 wickets are taken for 276 runs = strike rate of 21.30
The 4th over 11 wickets are taken for 282 run = strike rate of 38.7

To me as a novice captain the conclusion seems pretty obvious - bowl all of your bowlers in two over spells. There's another factor that weighs in favour of this approach and that's the saying S**t bowling gets wickets. Most bowlers will readily admit to not being able to get into their rhythm until 2-3 overs, so it strikes me that the initial wayward bowling in the first overs as they settle causes problems for the batsmen looking to get off the mark. As the bowling settles down, the scoring rate drops markedly, but then so does the wicket taking capacity... Time to bring on another bowler? The data at the moment would suggest if all of the bowlers bowled three overs they would do so with a strike rate potential of one wicket in each spell almost (21.5).
10 wickets at a rate of one every 21.5 ball would mean the opposition would be out in 36 overs.

The data I've used so far would average out at 4.11 an over so the opposition would be bowled out for 148. Which is a lot better than the performances to-date!
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After many years of experience, I would agree that if a bowler has bowled 3-4 overs at the same two batsmen, then the advantage starts to move towards them and he becomes less likely to get them out at that point.

But that's not the same as saying a bowlers should never bowl more than 3-4 overs. If he keeps taking wickets or wickets are coming at the other end then his level of "exposure" to the new batsmen remains low and he still has a good chance of getting them out. I've bowled 10 over spells in the past where every few overs I've had a new pair of batsman to have a go at. That's probably the best case scenario for a bowler. I've had time to get my rhythm and my confidence but the batsman at the crease still have no idea how of the best way to play me.



This goes back to the old piece of captaincy advice I was told 20 years ago that the first thing to happen before bad things start happening is that good things stop happening. If you have two bowlers on who are doing "ok" but haven't looked like taking a wicket in a few overs... its probably time to change them to try and make something happen, because all they are doing at the moment is playing the batsmen in. Proactive captaincy is good captaincy.

Its worth saying that scorebooks don't tell the whole story. An over with 3-4 runs scored from it could have been full of chances and play and misses, or it could have been an increasingly confident batsman starting to stretch his arms. Its up to the captain to recognise the difference and act accordingly.
 
As you are playing guys up to the age of U19 you must also keep the Fast Bowling Match Directives in mind. Particularly, if you play around with the spells... that the bowler cannot bowl again from either end until the equivalent number of overs to the length of his spell have been bowled from the same end!

... as well as the maximum number of overs per spell and per day.
 
Liz Ward said:
As you are playing guys up to the age of U19 you must also keep the Fast Bowling Match Directives in mind. Particularly, if you play around with the spells... that the bowler cannot bowl again from either end until the equivalent number of overs to the length of his spell have been bowled from the same end!

... as well as the maximum number of overs per spell and per day.
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Yeah, and there is also the "opposite" issue, for example one of our club stalwart medium pacers is well into his 50s and he simply can't do second spells. Once he has stretched and warmed up he can reel off 10 tights overs in a row for you, but once you take him off, that's it, he's done for the day apart from a spot of umpiring.
 
Liz Ward said:
As you are playing guys up to the age of U19 you must also keep the Fast Bowling Match Directives in mind. Particularly, if you play around with the spells... that the bowler cannot bowl again from either end until the equivalent number of overs to the length of his spell have been bowled from the same end!

... as well as the maximum number of overs per spell and per day.
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Yeah I'm going to have a little note book in my pocket I think, but the team I've got this Saturday are all bowlers, all 11 of them! So the under 15's will get a bowl at the start in with the more flexible adults, the less flexible adults will follow them and Joe my youngest son will be the last if there's anyone left batting:D Then we'll start round again with those that did well first time round. I've taken in board what SLA has said and I think what I'll do is - if you take a wicket in the 3 overs you buy yourself another over, but if you fail to take an additional wicket, that's your spell done and the next bloke comes in to bowl. If you take a wicket in each over you buy yourself another (Unless of course you're restricted by the bowling regulations). The only other caveat I might consider is - what if in your 4th over (You've taken one wicket already hence the 4th over) you bowl a maiden? Do I end his spell or give him another?
 
Weather forecast is not that great for Saturday Dave... so look to your pace men if you get on. Particularly those with webbed feet!

There is no problem with having scenarios in your head but play it by ear... best laid plans of mice and all that.

Good luck!
 
No need for any of that in the short term as we had our fifth consecutive loss and this one was the worst. All bowled out for 49 with me scoring the 2nd highest amount of runs (6). Then the oppo batsmen scored the required 50 within 10 overs. I'd been advised to bat first because of the rain situation and chasing points. It didn't work out though.

I've now got a bloke saying that he's had enough - "I'm not paying £12 every week for this to happen every week... I'm going to look for another club". I've spoken to the selectors and they're going to put him in the 3rds next week to try and placate him.

I love cricket and it seems at least two of the other blokes have a different ethos to the disgruntled bloke and maybe even a 3rd bloke who wasn't here this week really wants to play in the 4ths rather than the 3rds? In this game we had 6 kids and 5 adults. For the most part the kids are primarily bowlers. I'm now thinking, the likelihood of us winning any games this year is small, but rather than see it as a totally bad thing, see it as an opportunity to look to develop primarily as a bowler and maybe look to work on the batting in a different way, but as a secondary aspect to the game? With this in mind and looking to avoid the situation where the game is over in a matter of a couple of hours. Maybe at every opportunity we always choose to field first and allow all the bowlers the opportunity to bowl? Irrespective of how the games going I give 7 bowlers the opportunity to bowl 7 overs each?

Unless of course I'm given a team with some batsmen in? In that case I might look to approach the game in a different way?
 
Dave, captaining a team with that many youngsters is always a difficult task and I did suggest you needed to get the adults on board with 'the project' from the outset - thankfully there are still plenty of blokes out there who are happy to get some sort of game and help the next generation in the process.

I think you are right in looking to always bowl first, if your batting is your weakness then exposing that first up means there is always the potential for neither side to get much of a game as happened this weekend. Not sure on how points are awarded in your league, but for the side I captained last year we got a bonus point for every 40 runs, as the makeup of the side sounds very much like yours in terms of its strengths and weaknesses we set a target of each week trying to bowl out the opposition and then scoring 80+ runs for 2 batting points irrespective of what our 'actual' target was. The other thing that you can target, as you have said, is batting time, trying to bat out your full allocation will be tough with that many juniors who are used to 20/20 cricket but it can be done - if they come to adult training emphasize solid defence AND hitting gaps for singles, even if they only have one or two 'scoring areas' that should help them get away from the 'hanging in' mindset which isn't a great thing when walking out to bat.

Best of luck
Tony
 
I've always found that a 100% guaranteed method of a quick and fatal collapse is to tell a team to forget about scoring runs and just try to bat out the overs. Suddenly even the most competent batsmen become riddled with self-doubt and start prodding around hopelessly and tapping genial long hops back to the bowler.

Personally, I think it is something of a myth that batting less aggressively automatically reduces the chance of dismissal, especially in amateur cricket. If anything the opposite normally happens.
 
SLA said:
I've always found that a 100% guaranteed method of a quick and fatal collapse is to tell a team to forget about scoring runs and just try to bat out the overs. Suddenly even the most competent batsmen become riddled with self-doubt and start prodding around hopelessly and tapping genial long hops back to the bowler.

Personally, I think it is something of a myth that batting less aggressively automatically reduces the chance of dismissal, especially in amateur cricket. If anything the opposite normally happens.
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The batsmen who do have the ability to score runs, have gone out with that mind set SLA and haven't done so well so far, but I'm aware that it's not that easy ...batting (So people tell me). I don't think they'd listen to me anyway if I was to suggest anything with regards batting. So far my advice would be along the lines of - you know your game and your strengths, you know what we're trying to achieve - do your best in the way that you see fit. I like the approach that Tony has mentioned e.g. check out the points and try and identify and more achievable target and then if it pans out positively take the next step.

What I have been surprised by is a revelation with regards my older son. Having been so soundly thrashed the next day I went out with the sidearm with my younger son and we did some work on our batting. Whilst out there, my older son joined us and proceeded to bat like a champion! When asked about it he said - "Yeah I can probably bat okay, but the pressure gets to me, I feel the weight of the task at hand and I go to pieces". What do I do about that? Maybe put him up the order and see if with the freedom of time, he plays in a more decisive and positive way? At the moment going in at 10 or 11 he tends to play defensively?
 
Dave, as regards Ben, or any other batter, but particularly juniors who are used to T20, try to reduce the 'task'. If he is walking out at 40 odd for 8, as was the case last week, its easy to get overwhelmed. Try to set smaller targets, and perhaps tie this in with running a mini league for the under 15s in the squad, could simply be runs or balls faced in the short term, but I would prefer something more team oriented so perhaps looking at partnerships they have been a part of? This is why I like 'singles' practice in nets, learn to rotate the strike and batting suddenly becomes a team game.

As for the batting order, if they are all much of a muchness and (as seems the case) everyone will get a bat as you are struggling to complete your overs I think you are on the right lines - split up the juniors with the seniors available and perhaps rank the juniors based on how many overs they bowl (less overs = higher up the order) but try to rotate this around when the opportunity arises or perhaps once one or two do show some improvement. As an aside, how are the under 15s in your squad doing, batting wise, in age group cricket, do they bat with more freedom against their peers?
 
The thing is, when you're 40-8 and 100+ runs adrift, what task is there at hand, realistically? You're not going to win, presumably at 4th XI level there is no option of a draw, so what pressure is there? He might as well just treat it as a net.

Perhaps you need to explain this to him.

On a more general note, there is often a large discontinuity between nets, where the pitch is flat, there are no fielders, no consequences to bad shots, and basically no pressure; and fully pressurised league matches, where every failure stays on your play cricket record for ever nowadays. A helpful halfway house is playing in plenty of low level/friendly/casual games, preferably with retire at 25 in place. That bridges the gap quite effectively in my experience. If you can get to 25 in a casual game, you will probably have the confidence to get to 25 in a league game, and then its just a matter of going on from there. Its just a matter of having something you can fall back on, psychologically.
 
SLA, take your point about casual/friendly fixtures but they do require an element of organisation within clubs and when we are looking at younger players who may have junior fixtures, exam commitments and bowling regs to consider there is not always the scope to fit them in.

The alternative is to try to make nets as realistic as possible, I will be running a juniors (u15) net session tomorrow evening which will have two batters (with a scenario & target) and a couple of bowlers bowling 6 ball overs (again with the scenario and their own target) setting fields and an umpire/adjudicator allocating runs (and making the batters RUN) - is that as good as a square practice, no, but its the best I can do with the facilities and time constraints I am working within
 
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