Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

[MattXG]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Ladies and gentleman, meet the average American. If I don't understand it, it's wrong.


Fair enough, welcome to BigCricket. But if you're just here to stir shit about the game, you'll have a fairly short stay.

Says the man that started with ignorant generalizations....

Better start reading that book aloud and read it for 5 days....but don't bother reading the ending. If you find yourself asking "Why did I bother?" Well, then you'll understand the futility in your sport.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Hey, nothing I'd like more than to be proved wrong. The fact that you use that analogy shows that you're clearly missing the point.

Just maybe there's more to sport than having a single winner in every match, eh? Nah, couldn't be. All American sports have tiebreakers, they're great!

 

[Boris]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Just picking up a point from earlier about taking India out of cricket and looking at it's population. It is still 1.5 times larger than baseball... not that I'm counting .

But moving on from the USA... what about Canada?

Now there is a country that once had a rich cricket history, it was played day in day out before the American revolution decided to start kicking things out the door that remotely resembled England... even if it wasn't their own country.

Canada is now playing in the West Indies T20 tournament and popularity wise (comparitively) is moving on faster than America.

I know very little about Canada and their view on sports, so is there anybody that could shed some light on that area? Better still anybody lived/been to Canada, most likely out of the Americans on this thread?

 

[MinuteWaltz]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Just picking up a point from earlier about taking India out of cricket and looking at it's population. It is still 1.5 times larger than baseball... not that I'm counting .

But moving on from the USA... what about Canada?

Now there is a country that once had a rich cricket history, it was played day in day out before the American revolution decided to start kicking things out the door that remotely resembled England... even if it wasn't their own country.

Canada is now playing in the West Indies T20 tournament and popularity wise (comparitively) is moving on faster than America.

I know very little about Canada and their view on sports, so is there anybody that could shed some light on that area? Better still anybody lived/been to Canada, most likely out of the Americans on this thread?

Hey Boris, long time no see (or whatever verb applies to internet message boards).

Canada is for the most part very similar on their sports views to the US. Ice Hockey is obviously the most polular sport. Second would likely be Canadian Football, a version of Gridiron Football very similar to the one in the US with only a few relatively superficial rule differences. Basketball, Baseball and Association football are all there as well, although significantly lower in polularity. Cricket appears to be about the 7th most popular team sport at the moment (while also a niche sport, I would say Rugby Union is higher). Canada's cricket body seems to be a bit better managed, but as far as talent development and market penetration, has many of the same problems as the US. Both national teams use predominately naturalized citizens, mostly from the carribean, and Indian subcontinent, areas for which Canada and the US are notable immigration destinations. There is little homegrown talent in either country, because outside of first and perhaps second generation immigrant communities from cricket playing countries, the sport has a low profile.

Also for what it's worth on the history of cricket in North America, the Revolutionary War had little to do with cricket's slow ebb. In the late 1700's Canada remained a Brittish colony. The US was more likely to invade than exert cultural influence over the place. In the US cricket retained limited popularity as late as the 1910's. Hell, General Washington is documented to have played a game of cricket with his troops during winter encampment in the winter of 1777. The real turning point was the American Civil War from 1861-1865. Baseball became a favored alternative amongst troops as less site preparation was needed to play during down time at encampments and the quicker game allowed the flexible scheduling needed in war-time. Both Union and confederate troops spread the game throughout the country after the Civil War and Baseball soon became the nation's most popular sport. The last bastion of cricket support was in Philladelphia. The local Philladelphian Cricket Club even traveled to England to play some First Class cricket. The final nail in the coffin was the formation of the ICC in 1909. Back then the ICC should for Imperial Cricket Conference and they decided that non-commonwealth nations need not apply. The US and Canada were denied membership until 1965 and 1968 respectively.

 

[Boris]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

Hey Boris, long time no see (or whatever verb applies to internet message boards).

Canada is for the most part very similar on their sports views to the US. Ice Hockey is obviously the most polular sport. Second would likely be Canadian Football, a version of Gridiron Football very similar to the one in the US with only a few relatively superficial rule differences. Basketball, Baseball and Association football are all there as well, although significantly lower in polularity. Cricket appears to be about the 7th most popular team sport at the moment (while also a niche sport, I would say Rugby Union is higher). Canada's cricket body seems to be a bit better managed, but as far as talent development and market penetration, has many of the same problems as the US. Both national teams use predominately naturalized citizens, mostly from the carribean, and Indian subcontinent, areas for which Canada and the US are notable immigration destinations. There is little homegrown talent in either country, because outside of first and perhaps second generation immigrant communities from cricket playing countries, the sport has a low profile.

Also for what it's worth on the history of cricket in North America, the Revolutionary War had little to do with cricket's slow ebb. In the late 1700's Canada remained a Brittish colony. The US was more likely to invade than exert cultural influence over the place. In the US cricket retained limited popularity as late as the 1910's. Hell, General Washington is documented to have played a game of cricket with his troops during winter encampment in the winter of 1777. The real turning point was the American Civil War from 1861-1865. Baseball became a favored alternative amongst troops as less site preparation was needed to play during down time at encampments and the quicker game allowed the flexible scheduling needed in war-time. Both Union and confederate troops spread the game throughout the country after the Civil War and Baseball soon became the nation's most popular sport. The last bastion of cricket support was in Philladelphia. The local Philladelphian Cricket Club even traveled to England to play some First Class cricket. The final nail in the coffin was the formation of the ICC in 1909. Back then the ICC should for Imperial Cricket Conference and they decided that non-commonwealth nations need not apply. The US and Canada were denied membership until 1965 and 1968 respectively.

History is most definitely the one thing I didn't do at school, so thanks for the interesting history lesson there.

Cricinfo has been presenting articles following Canada's contribution to cricket, and there seems to be a few grounds over there disguised as other sporting grounds, a few different pavilions and the left over remnants of cricket amongst the society. In a couple of towns it is popular, but not much outside of that. At least that's what these articles suggest.

Perhaps Canada would be a better place to start then America? Use it as a building block, because America is going to be harder.

 

[MinuteWaltz]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

History is most definitely the one thing I didn't do at school, so thanks for the interesting history lesson there.

Cricinfo has been presenting articles following Canada's contribution to cricket, and there seems to be a few grounds over there disguised as other sporting grounds, a few different pavilions and the left over remnants of cricket amongst the society. In a couple of towns it is popular, but not much outside of that. At least that's what these articles suggest.

Perhaps Canada would be a better place to start then America? Use it as a building block, because America is going to be harder.

No problem. Most of the history stuff isn't common knowledge, so you have to did a little to find it.

Canada would have some advantages for spreading cricket that the US doesn't. Obviously the quality of the national team (the men's at least) is higher. More importantly I think though is that while Canada is physically larger than the US, it is much less populated and has a more concentrated population. The current estimate on the Canadian population is ~34 million, about 1/9th that of the US. Supposedly 80% of the Canadian population lives within 150 km of the US boarder and about 41% live in the six largest metropolitan areas. It would take the top 26 largest metropolitan areas in the US to contain a similar percentage of the nation's population. So with Canada, if the ICC could make significant inroads in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary, and Edmonton, then a large percentage of the Canadian population would be exposed to the sport.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

No problem. Most of the history stuff isn't common knowledge, so you have to did a little to find it.

Canada would have some advantages for spreading cricket that the US doesn't. Obviously the quality of the national team (the men's at least) is higher. More importantly I think though is that while Canada is physically larger than the US, it is much less populated and has a more concentrated population. The current estimate on the Canadian population is ~34 million, about 1/9th that of the US. Supposedly 80% of the Canadian population lives within 150 km of the US boarder and about 41% live in the six largest metropolitan areas. It would take the top 26 largest metropolitan areas in the US to contain a similar percentage of the nation's population. So with Canada, if the ICC could make significant inroads in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary, and Edmonton, then a large percentage of the Canadian population would be exposed to the sport.

I can't see cricket taking off in the US, they are wedded to their own sports. But the Chinese are a different kettle of fish, if they take it seriously, we are all screwed.

And watch out for the French!

BBC News - Le Cricket comes to France

That's a cute story. Nice to see the locals and even school-kids are taking it up and it's not just expats.

Edit: The Torygraph jumped in as well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/7900777/Ow-iz-zat-Cricket-catches-on-in-France.html

 

[MinuteWaltz]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

I can't see cricket taking off in the US, they are wedded to their own sports.

Sorry, but I have to jump in here, because it always bugs me when people say this. Americans are no more wedded to our own sports than the Brittish are to theirs or the Australians to theirs. Probably even less so. Great Brittain's main team sports are Association football, Rugby, and Cricket; all sports of English invention. In Australia it's all about Cricket and depending on the region either Australian rules football or Rugby league; all sports either invented there or present for over a century. And you know what, there's nothing wrong with that. Each country has it's own culture and there is no need to homogenize everything. However the US has adopted association football, a sport that isn't "native" to the country, so until some country in the Brittish Commonwealth picks up baseball or basketball as a major sport, I can't see a basis for assuming relative close-mindedness in America's sporting culture.

But the Chinese are a different kettle of fish, if they take it seriously, we are all screwed.

How are the Chinese a different kettle of fish? What evidence is there of the nation taking cricket any more seriously than the US or Canada or any other associate? China is the 21st ranked member of the 22 nation Asian Cricket Council. China isn't even an associate, only an affiliate, which by ICC guidelines state that while cricket is played according to the Laws of the Game, it is neither well established nor organized.

And watch out for the French!

Same question, how is France doing better than anyone else? It's the 11th ranked European associate and doesn't compete in the World Cricket League.

I'm not trying to pick on France and China in particular, or say the US is head and shoulders above all the other associates. However, if we're going to discuss the growth of cricket internationally, it should based on an understanding of the actual conditions in the countries we're discussing and not based on fluff news articles or outdated stereotypes.

 

[Boris]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

I think Beeswax isn't being serious with his last post. If China were to develop so far as to a Test playing nation, due to their population and the way they train their sports players, I don't think any other country would have a chance.

And it's a good thing that the French are coming along. I wouldn't mind the French becoming a much better team and getting into the World Cup. Europe is also a good place to target cricket at.

 

[MinuteWaltz]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

I think Beeswax isn't being serious with his last post. If China were to develop so far as to a Test playing nation, due to their population and the way they train their sports players, I don't think any other country would have a chance.

I'm still going to have to disagree with this.

And it's a good thing that the French are coming along. I wouldn't mind the French becoming a much better team and getting into the World Cup. Europe is also a good place to target cricket at.

Yes, any time cricket grows anywhere it is a good thing, and Continental Europe is another place cricket should target.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Speculation over NZ vs Pakistan matches to be held in USA

I'm still going to have to disagree with this.



Yes, any time cricket grows anywhere it is a good thing, and Continental Europe is another place cricket should target.

China has only been playing cricket for about 2 years or so. Give them some time and the thing is that it's locals taking it up. It doesn't appear to be driven by ex-pats.