Subbies Thread

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westland said:
Please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my recollection CV consent was needed in respect the Hoppers move from the VTCA to the VSDCA. If that is so, not a hope in hell of it being agreed to by CV given its commitment to its Southern League. CV's Taskforce model clearly shows it does not favour across-town competition at our level which, of course, is a major reason the model does not appeal to the subbies clubs. I was surprised the VTCA's southern clubs in the VTCA's only across-town division (Senior Division) seemed to have so readily abandoned it, the only exception being South Caulfield.
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RatnBat, from a Southern VTCA club, was adamant that CV signoff was needed for a club to join Subbies. I can't see how they can veto such a move if that is what a club wanted to do, but I don't know this for a fact. I understand that South Caulfield did not vote in favour of joining the CV South comp. That is perfectly understandable. For the top end VTCA Senior Division clubs, the CV regional comp offers nothing until Subbies clubs join in and create some depth/competition. With RPB going, I am sure the VSDCA would like a club from that region to join but is also possible for them to reverse the recent group shift involving Oakleigh creating a vacancy in South (Kingston Saints old spot). Someone will take the vacancy, just a question of who.
 
Round the grounds said:
RatnBat, from a Southern VTCA club, was adamant that CV signoff was needed for a club to join Subbies. I can't see how they can veto such a move if that is what a club wanted to do, but I don't know this for a fact. I understand that South Caulfield did not vote in favour of joining the CV South comp. That is perfectly understandable. For the top end VTCA Senior Division clubs, the CV regional comp offers nothing until Subbies clubs join in and create some depth/competition. With RPB going, I am sure the VSDCA would like a club from that region to join but is also possible for them to reverse the recent group shift involving Oakleigh creating a vacancy in South (Kingston Saints old spot). Someone will take the vacancy, just a question of who.
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Playing that out, you'd have Oakleigh back in the East, Balwyn back in the North, South Caulfield in South and West stay the same?
Towards the end of the season there was a lot of talk about Port Melbourne wanting back into Subbies as well. Not sure that would work but a lot depends on the proposed CV restructure I guess.
 
Random Truths said:
Playing that out, you'd have Oakleigh back in the East, Balwyn back in the North, South Caulfield in South and West stay the same?
Towards the end of the season there was a lot of talk about Port Melbourne wanting back into Subbies as well. Not sure that would work but a lot depends on the proposed CV restructure I guess.
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Yes, that is right. I am not saying South Caulfield will definitely move to Subbies, but they could if they wanted to. I am also saying that subbies can move a club or two around the compass to create a vacancy for any club that wants to join where a vacancy is needed. Just like it was attractive to Hoppers last year, the RPB vacancy will be very appealing to a number of clubs, particularly those that are "too big" for the CV model.
 
Round the grounds said:
RatnBat, from a Southern VTCA club, was adamant that CV signoff was needed for a club to join Subbies. I can't see how they can veto such a move if that is what a club wanted to do, but I don't know this for a fact. I understand that South Caulfield did not vote in favour of joining the CV South comp. That is perfectly understandable. For the top end VTCA Senior Division clubs, the CV regional comp offers nothing until Subbies clubs join in and create some depth/competition. With RPB going, I am sure the VSDCA would like a club from that region to join but is also possible for them to reverse the recent group shift involving Oakleigh creating a vacancy in South (Kingston Saints old spot). Someone will take the vacancy, just a question of who.
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I think there are 3 VTCA clubs in the west, Spotswood, Yarraville Club and Keilor who could comply with the need to provide 2 turf grounds and be able to slot in nicely to the subbies comp. I think they may be appalled at the prospect of being restricted to competing in a regional equivalent of CV's Southern League. No doubt posts on the VTCA's chat site and media reports following this week's meeting with CV will give us a better insight as to developments. Whether RatnBat is correct in that a CV sign-off is needed will become apparent when a club applies to fill the vacancy. I thought the requirement odd at the time and still do;it may be a relic from the days when the subbies clubs were in receipt of a dividend.
 
Round the grounds said:
RatnBat, from a Southern VTCA club, was adamant that CV signoff was needed for a club to join Subbies. I can't see how they can veto such a move if that is what a club wanted to do, but I don't know this for a fact. I understand that South Caulfield did not vote in favour of joining the CV South comp. That is perfectly understandable. For the top end VTCA Senior Division clubs, the CV regional comp offers nothing until Subbies clubs join in and create some depth/competition. With RPB going, I am sure the VSDCA would like a club from that region to join but is also possible for them to reverse the recent group shift involving Oakleigh creating a vacancy in South (Kingston Saints old spot). Someone will take the vacancy, just a question of who.
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I believe South Caulfield have not voted one way or the other and are waiting for a few things to happen from CV, but won't be in the VTCA.
 
Turf Cricket said:
I believe South Caulfield have not voted one way or the other and are waiting for a few things to happen from CV, but won't be in the VTCA.
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You haven't explained why they won't be in the VTCA, but the vibes I am getting from VTCA folk out here is that this week's meeting may spell the end of the VTCA due to lack of confidence in its admin. Hence, it is understandable South Caulfield may have already decided its long-term interests lie elsewhere, irrespective of whether or not the VTCA survives. One of the issues in criticising persons running a cricket comp is that when the people moaning are challenged to put up their hand to do better, they are nowhwere to be seen! If that is what transpires at the VTCA, then a CV-run alternative is the only option.
 
westland said:
Please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my recollection CV consent was needed in respect the Hoppers move from the VTCA to the VSDCA. If that is so, not a hope in hell of it being agreed to by CV given its commitment to its Southern League. CV's Taskforce model clearly shows it does not favour across-town competition at our level which, of course, is a major reason the model does not appeal to the subbies clubs. I was surprised the VTCA's southern clubs in the VTCA's only across-town division (Senior Division) seemed to have so readily abandoned it, the only exception being South Caulfield.
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The problem in the south was that with easy access to premier and sub district cricket on the area the players that wished to push themselves had plenty of options to do so. This has slowly drained the VTCA clubs leaving just the up and comers, loyal & older players all of which just wanted a local turf comp. The VTCA refused to act on this and when they finally did they f$&ked it up with an unbalanced 18 team 11 round split finals series joke of a comp.. Couple that with the north clubs greater financial strength and CV offer to start over with their model it really wasn't a hard decision for most..
 
DStrek15 said:
The problem in the south was that with easy access to premier and sub district cricket on the area the players that wished to push themselves had plenty of options to do so. This has slowly drained the VTCA clubs leaving just the up and comers, loyal & older players all of which just wanted a local turf comp. The VTCA refused to act on this and when they finally did they f$&ked it up with an unbalanced 18 team 11 round split finals series joke of a comp.. Couple that with the north clubs greater financial strength and CV offer to start over with their model it really wasn't a hard decision for most..
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Thanks for giving me the background to the dissatisfaction over there. The greater financial strength of the north clubs probably also means they may be ripe for the picking by the subbies for I find it hard to imagine, if the VTCA falls over, the northern power clubs (and also Yarraville Club and Spotswood in the west) being satisfied with playing in a localised CV-run comp. Could be sufficient numbers to bring several of the power clubs into the subbies (provided they have 2 turf grounds) allowing it to have the numbers to permit a viable promotion/relegation system, the lack of which is a potential achilles heel.
 
westland said:
Thanks for giving me the background to the dissatisfaction over there. The greater financial strength of the north clubs probably also means they may be ripe for the picking by the subbies for I find it hard to imagine, if the VTCA falls over, the northern power clubs (and also Yarraville Club and Spotswood in the west) being satisfied with playing in a localised CV-run comp. Could be sufficient numbers to bring several of the power clubs into the subbies (provided they have 2 turf grounds) allowing it to have the numbers to permit a viable promotion/relegation system, the lack of which is a potential achilles heel.
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Why would they worry, when the Subbies clubs will be part of it in 3 years and maybe some of the struggling one's sooner.
 
Interesting to see that Brunswick have signed Strathmore's Captain. With the old VTCA probably plunging into mediocrity in the form of 3 weak comps, could we see more A graders from old VTCA clubs looking to move to subbies clubs in what will be the far stronger comp? I reckon Lorenzo and a fair few others might be getting phone calls asking about their availability.
 
Round the grounds said:
Interesting to see that Brunswick have signed Strathmore's Captain. With the old VTCA probably plunging into mediocrity in the form of 3 weak comps, could we see more A graders from old VTCA clubs looking to move to subbies clubs in what will be the far stronger comp? I reckon Lorenzo and a fair few others might be getting phone calls asking about their availability.
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You have hit the nail on the head by reference to ''3 weak comps''. I would love to be a fly on the wall at tonight's meeting but have no entitlement to be there. I can tell you the point you have made is not lost on a number of the VTCA clubs in the west for they are, of course, aware Melton, W'bee, Hoppers, Altona, Willy, Yarraville and Sunshine will not participate in a Western League and, without the 28 teams they would have supplied, it will be light on for numbers, quality and equality. Eg, the Yarraville Club C C would be a total misfit in a Western only comp due to the non-participation of the 7 subbies clubs. If there is a similar scenario in the North then I think a more sensible alternative would a combined North and West League for the time being.
 
Round the grounds said:
Interesting to see that Brunswick have signed Strathmore's Captain. With the old VTCA probably plunging into mediocrity in the form of 3 weak comps, could we see more A graders from old VTCA clubs looking to move to subbies clubs in what will be the far stronger comp? I reckon Lorenzo and a fair few others might be getting phone calls asking about their availability.
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He's a selfish cricketer, they can have him
 
westland said:
You have hit the nail on the head by reference to ''3 weak comps''. I would love to be a fly on the wall at tonight's meeting but have no entitlement to be there. I can tell you the point you have made is not lost on a number of the VTCA clubs in the west for they are, of course, aware Melton, W'bee, Hoppers, Altona, Willy, Yarraville and Sunshine will not participate in a Western League and, without the 28 teams they would have supplied, it will be light on for numbers, quality and equality. Eg, the Yarraville Club C C would be a total misfit in a Western only comp due to the non-participation of the 7 subbies clubs. If there is a similar scenario in the North then I think a more sensible alternative would a combined North and West League for the time being.
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I'm going and I don't hold a position at my club, come along Westy
 
westland said:
You have hit the nail on the head by reference to ''3 weak comps''. I would love to be a fly on the wall at tonight's meeting but have no entitlement to be there. I can tell you the point you have made is not lost on a number of the VTCA clubs in the west for they are, of course, aware Melton, W'bee, Hoppers, Altona, Willy, Yarraville and Sunshine will not participate in a Western League and, without the 28 teams they would have supplied, it will be light on for numbers, quality and equality. Eg, the Yarraville Club C C would be a total misfit in a Western only comp due to the non-participation of the 7 subbies clubs. If there is a similar scenario in the North then I think a more sensible alternative would a combined North and West League for the time being.
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Agree, YCCC and SCCC will be almost unchallenged in their little ponds. Combining North and West makes sense, maybe CV could add the ECA to the CV South comp and play a combined comp in the SE, then they could rotate each year, hang on a minute that format sounds familiar...
 
Turf Cricket said:
He's a selfish cricketer, they can have him
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I wouldn't know if he is selfish or not, he was the Captain of a Senior Div club so I take from that he has some qualities. Point is, old VTCA clubs will risk their players being poached if they are prematurely shunted into weak comps. Will the Ingrams, the Parchments, the Russells etc get the same buzz out of inferior regional comps that they got out of Senior Div? Should it come about, the 3 regional comps will lack depth and collectively fall well behind the VSDCA in overall standard. A staged restructure is not a good fit all clubs and you would think that some old VTCA clubs are going to go hard after the RPB vacancy.
 
Round the grounds said:
I wouldn't know if he is selfish or not, he was the Captain of a Senior Div club so I take from that he has some qualities. Point is, old VTCA clubs will risk their players being poached if they are prematurely shunted into weak comps. Will the Ingrams, the Parchments, the Russells etc get the same buzz out of inferior regional comps that they got out of Senior Div? Should it come about, the 3 regional comps will lack depth and collectively fall well behind the VSDCA in overall standard. A staged restructure is not a good fit all clubs and you would think that some old VTCA clubs are going to go hard after the RPB vacancy.
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CV are confident that Subbies will be in within 3 to 4 years and they have agreed to a working party
 
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