Subbies Thread

Top Contributors
southern sledge said:
It happened to me at a Premier club 10 years ago and never got paid, but their new Pro's did
Click to expand...

I am shocked to learn that this problem has happened at the Premier Cricket level. At one of the comps where I curated years ago the association had this problem covered by it acting as guarantor for unpaid curators fees by member clubs with the offending clubs then being billed by the comp for reimbursement. It worked a treat--I don't recall the association ever having to act on the provision--the threat that they could, and that in the process all other clubs would get to know about it to the extreme embarrassment of the offending club(s), was all that was needed to overcome the problem.
 
Round the grounds said:
Funny how the anti Hatch/Rep cricket rhetoric comes from VTCA folk. As for Rat'n'bat, I have never heard anyone say Hatch, an u15 Comp, is better than CV Pathway, which is U14/16/18, because it is not. I also can't imagine any U15 choosing to play Beitzel over Hatch, poorly advised if they did, probably by a club who is trying to hold them back.
Click to expand...
I've coached for 4 years in the CV pathway, now just happen to coach a VTCA club. We have one young ex-junior currently opening the bowling at Premier level, another couple I arranged tryouts for at premier clubs, one kid playing Vic U-15s who played Dowling, 5 played VMCU, 2 played Hatch. Trying to hold them back?? Give me a spell
I think the 2 who played Hatch were worded up through their school contacts. I'd certainly have advised them to go the beitzel route, as it is a legitimate part of the cricket pathway - which most development guys at CV acknowledge. Hatch doesn't have that allure anymore, and as I and others mentioned exists for the recruiting purposes of Sub district clubs. Great the kids are playing rep cricket. Not so great when the purpose is to grab players off other local clubs
 
our club had 3 playing for a struggling South based side and all have been approached to play for that club for the rest of the season, that's why VT clubs crack the shits
 
southern sledge said:
our club had 3 playing for a struggling South based side and all have been approached to play for that club for the rest of the season, that's why VT clubs crack the shits
Click to expand...


We must be careful not to 'bag' the Hatch competition because some clubs are not using it in the right spirit.
I am not condoning clubs trying to 'poach' young players mid season - players should finish seasons with the same club they started with.
However if you can provide a talented young player with an opportunity to play higher level cricket that can only be good for the player involved - especially if they are currently playing on the hard wickets.
If they are playing in a turf competition then they may well be better off staying where they are.
 
nancy said:
We must be careful not to 'bag' the Hatch competition because some clubs are not using it in the right spirit.
I am not condoning clubs trying to 'poach' young players mid season - players should finish seasons with the same club they started with.
However if you can provide a talented young player with an opportunity to play higher level cricket that can only be good for the player involved - especially if they are currently playing on the hard wickets.
If they are playing in a turf competition then they may well be better off staying where they are.
Click to expand...

I have learned a lot about the Hatch Shield, et al, by recent posts on this forum. I am impressed by the number of you who are actively engaged in the Hatch and other junior development activities. Well done to you all. Lets hope that perceived poaching attempts by subbies clubs does not result in kids from non-subbies clubs being deterred by their clubs from playing Hatch on the good grounds that are the norm in that competition. The kids should not be denied opportunities to play in a very good junior turf pitch comp due to such issues.
I suggest all of you who volunteer so much of your time to junior development can take comfort from the fact that, although the intention of the CV Pathway may be to cater for the most talented, many of the most loyal and long-serving members of your clubs were never the most talented junior cricketers.
 
rat'n'bat said:
I've coached for 4 years in the CV pathway, now just happen to coach a VTCA club. We have one young ex-junior currently opening the bowling at Premier level, another couple I arranged tryouts for at premier clubs, one kid playing Vic U-15s who played Dowling, 5 played VMCU, 2 played Hatch. Trying to hold them back?? Give me a spell
I think the 2 who played Hatch were worded up through their school contacts. I'd certainly have advised them to go the beitzel route, as it is a legitimate part of the cricket pathway - which most development guys at CV acknowledge. Hatch doesn't have that allure anymore, and as I and others mentioned exists for the recruiting purposes of Sub district clubs. Great the kids are playing rep cricket. Not so great when the purpose is to grab players off other local clubs
Click to expand...


Glad you're not trying to hold kids back, happens far more than you would think. Definitely don't agree with your views on Beitzel over Hatch, think you are in the minority there. Do agree that the VMCU carnival is a legitimate part of the pathway. Seems I was wrong about you just being anti-Hatch, you are actually anti-Subbies full stop. You take great pride in arranging tryouts for players at Premier level but if a young player goes to subbies then they have been poached? Subbies is also a legitimate part of the pathway and a young player will gain significantly playing with or against a Lewis, Allen, Warren, Damiano, Flynn, Bartlett, Wild, Travaglia, Ingram, Sheedy (do you want more?), arguably a lot more than playing Premier 3's or 4's. The purpose of Hatch is not to recruit, but to provide an introduction. Some will like it and want to take the next step up but no well run club would look to take a Hatch player on board mid-season. If local clubs treat their talented juniors with respect when they leave to play higher levels of cricket, wish them well, and let them know they are welcome back, they will benefit greatly in the long run as they return better cricketers than when they left. Well run local clubs have that cycle well established.
 
Round the grounds said:
Glad you're not trying to hold kids back, happens far more than you would think. Definitely don't agree with your views on Beitzel over Hatch, think you are in the minority there. Do agree that the VMCU carnival is a legitimate part of the pathway. Seems I was wrong about you just being anti-Hatch, you are actually anti-Subbies full stop. You take great pride in arranging tryouts for players at Premier level but if a young player goes to subbies then they have been poached? Subbies is also a legitimate part of the pathway and a young player will gain significantly playing with or against a Lewis, Allen, Warren, Damiano, Flynn, Bartlett, Wild, Travaglia, Ingram, Sheedy (do you want more?), arguably a lot more than playing Premier 3's or 4's. The purpose of Hatch is not to recruit, but to provide an introduction. Some will like it and want to take the next step up but no well run club would look to take a Hatch player on board mid-season. If local clubs treat their talented juniors with respect when they leave to play higher levels of cricket, wish them well, and let them know they are welcome back, they will benefit greatly in the long run as they return better cricketers than when they left. Well run local clubs have that cycle well established.
Click to expand...

If you read what I wrote, you will notice I’m certainly not anti-Hatch or anti-Subbies. I do think the Subbies are just another suburban competition – that yes, has some very good players, and yes, play on very good grounds, but then so do most other suburban comps. Why would I send my kids for tryouts to another local club?? We want our club to develop 1st class cricketers, and that isn’t going to happen at Sub-district clubs. Yes they could get a good grounding at a Sub-district club, but in my opinion no better or worse than they could get playing at my club - so I re-ask the question – why send my kids off to another local club?

Agree with what you wrote about Premier 3s and 4s – but given my experience in that system it is a merry go round of pretty much every local kid with some talent. Those with the attitude and ability to go further will make their way up the grades, those not quite right (at that time) will go back to the local clubs and hopefully give it another crack later on. There aren’t many kids who play 5 or 6 years in the 3s or 4s at Premier clubs. A kid I captained in the 3s 5 years ago made his debut hundred last week at Premier – but then he was a terrific kid with a great attitude who worked bloody hard – not surprising at all that he moved up through the grades

Beitzel vs Hatch – there have been plenty of Sub-District people on here who have agreed with me. And as I said, plenty of guys in development at CV who agree with me. But it is great that it gives the kids a game of rep cricket
 
rat'n'bat said:
If you read what I wrote, you will notice I’m certainly not anti-Hatch or anti-Subbies. I do think the Subbies are just another suburban competition – that yes, has some very good players, and yes, play on very good grounds, but then so do most other suburban comps. Why would I send my kids for tryouts to another local club?? We want our club to develop 1st class cricketers, and that isn’t going to happen at Sub-district clubs. Yes they could get a good grounding at a Sub-district club, but in my opinion no better or worse than they could get playing at my club - so I re-ask the question – why send my kids off to another local club?

Agree with what you wrote about Premier 3s and 4s – but given my experience in that system it is a merry go round of pretty much every local kid with some talent. Those with the attitude and ability to go further will make their way up the grades, those not quite right (at that time) will go back to the local clubs and hopefully give it another crack later on. There aren’t many kids who play 5 or 6 years in the 3s or 4s at Premier clubs. A kid I captained in the 3s 5 years ago made his debut hundred last week at Premier – but then he was a terrific kid with a great attitude who worked bloody hard – not surprising at all that he moved up through the grades

Beitzel vs Hatch – there have been plenty of Sub-District people on here who have agreed with me. And as I said, plenty of guys in development at CV who agree with me. But it is great that it gives the kids a game of rep cricket
Click to expand...

I suppose all this bitching about which comp is better than the other, the Hatch being used by some subbies clubs to poach kids etc etc are just the sort of issues CV can point to in justifying their present push to re-vamp metropolitan community cricket. However, for those of you who are passionate about retaining your club's affiliation with the comp in which it now plays, the dismantling of those competitions in the event of the re-vamp may dull your enthusiasm. For example, a number of the traditional club rivalries that have existed for generations and in which you have played a part, would inevitably be lost. Also, a number of players and officials from other clubs in your comp whom you have got to know and respect you may seldom, if ever, again meet. So, I can well understand many of you wishing for the status quo.
On the other hand, members have many times on this forum aired a two-tiered alternative for the subbies comp due to concerns the ''one-size fits all'' subbies model may not now well serve a number of its clubs. I am aware of 3 clubs that are struggling to adjust to the phasing out of the dividend making it even harder for them to compete on a level playing field. Can anyone tell us the current state of play on CV's initiative?
 
I find all the negativity to Hatch crazy - it helps kids get better, costs them nothing, exposes them to some different coaching opinions, puts them under pressure situations and builds new friendships with like minded kids.
Some players take the chance to move to a subbies club, others go back to their local club forever and others may move to a premier club at a latter time.
It all helps and Hatch is just another way to encourage palyers along in their journey
 
rat'n'bat said:
If you read what I wrote, you will notice I’m certainly not anti-Hatch or anti-Subbies. I do think the Subbies are just another suburban competition – that yes, has some very good players, and yes, play on very good grounds, but then so do most other suburban comps. Why would I send my kids for tryouts to another local club?? We want our club to develop 1st class cricketers, and that isn’t going to happen at Sub-district clubs. Yes they could get a good grounding at a Sub-district club, but in my opinion no better or worse than they could get playing at my club - so I re-ask the question – why send my kids off to another local club?

Agree with what you wrote about Premier 3s and 4s – but given my experience in that system it is a merry go round of pretty much every local kid with some talent. Those with the attitude and ability to go further will make their way up the grades, those not quite right (at that time) will go back to the local clubs and hopefully give it another crack later on. There aren’t many kids who play 5 or 6 years in the 3s or 4s at Premier clubs. A kid I captained in the 3s 5 years ago made his debut hundred last week at Premier – but then he was a terrific kid with a great attitude who worked bloody hard – not surprising at all that he moved up through the grades

Beitzel vs Hatch – there have been plenty of Sub-District people on here who have agreed with me. And as I said, plenty of guys in development at CV who agree with me. But it is great that it gives the kids a game of rep cricket
Click to expand...


If your club has the same resources and infrastructure, fine. If they play and train at the same standard and intensity, fine. Facts are, 1st class cricketers have come to Premier from both comps. It is purely personal opinion as to which is better.

I am not saying kids should not consider Beitzel, they should. But those kids should be 15. If you are 14, don't get picked bottom age in Dowling, then my recommendation would be to play Hatch. If you are 15, and too old for Hatch, and don't get picked for Dowling, then definitely try out for Beitzel. Hopefully as a 15 yo you will stand a chance of selection against the 14 yo's from VTCA clubs who are not willing to back their own systems and run the risk of their kids trying out for Hatch.
 
westland said:
I suppose all this bitching about which comp is better than the other, the Hatch being used by some subbies clubs to poach kids etc etc are just the sort of issues CV can point to in justifying their present push to re-vamp metropolitan community cricket. However, for those of you who are passionate about retaining your club's affiliation with the comp in which it now plays, the dismantling of those competitions in the event of the re-vamp may dull your enthusiasm. For example, a number of the traditional club rivalries that have existed for generations and in which you have played a part, would inevitably be lost. Also, a number of players and officials from other clubs in your comp whom you have got to know and respect you may seldom, if ever, again meet. So, I can well understand many of you wishing for the status quo.
On the other hand, members have many times on this forum aired a two-tiered alternative for the subbies comp due to concerns the ''one-size fits all'' subbies model may not now well serve a number of its clubs. I am aware of 3 clubs that are struggling to adjust to the phasing out of the dividend making it even harder for them to compete on a level playing field. Can anyone tell us the current state of play on CV's initiative?
Click to expand...

I have asked a number of folk as I wander Round the grounds if they have actually even spoken to Whale about his much anticipated report. No-one I have spoken to (club level folk) has even heard from him. I take it that means the review is being conducted at Association level, a bit concerning without being disrespectful to the many (mainly) volunteers who run the various associations. Surely the views of those at the coalface should be considered? Anyone else heard anything different?
 
Round the grounds said:
If your club has the same resources and infrastructure, fine. If they play and train at the same standard and intensity, fine. Facts are, 1st class cricketers have come to Premier from both comps. It is purely personal opinion as to which is better.

I am not saying kids should not consider Beitzel, they should. But those kids should be 15. If you are 14, don't get picked bottom age in Dowling, then my recommendation would be to play Hatch. If you are 15, and too old for Hatch, and don't get picked for Dowling, then definitely try out for Beitzel. Hopefully as a 15 yo you will stand a chance of selection against the 14 yo's from VTCA clubs who are not willing to back their own systems and run the risk of their kids trying out for Hatch.
Click to expand...
What a load of crap at the end, Hatch wont be around in 5 years
 
Round the grounds said:
I have asked a number of folk as I wander Round the grounds if they have actually even spoken to Whale about his much anticipated report. No-one I have spoken to (club level folk) has even heard from him. I take it that means the review is being conducted at Association level, a bit concerning without being disrespectful to the many (mainly) volunteers who run the various associations. Surely the views of those at the coalface should be considered? Anyone else heard anything different?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the above (I assume Whale is the pres. of C'well Magpies). Due to the significant changes that would result from the implementation of CV's re-vamp, and your advice that the views of those at the coalface have not yet been canvassed, I suggest the clubs' delegates to the subbies should be pressed by members of this forum to start asking questions at subbies meetings. As far as I know, there has been no public statements by the subbies executive since Jack Sheehan's press report last June. I find it hard to believe there is nothing further to report to clubs since then.
 
.
nancy said:
I find all the negativity to Hatch crazy - it helps kids get better, costs them nothing, exposes them to some different coaching opinions, puts them under pressure situations and builds new friendships with like minded kids.
Some players take the chance to move to a subbies club, others go back to their local club forever and others may move to a premier club at a latter time.
It all helps and Hatch is just another way to encourage palyers along in their journey
Click to expand...

I think the above captures how Hatch does or should work.

I know we have 'outside' coaches to try and get rid of the perception that we are trying to poach players. In fact, we have lost players to VTCA clubs as a result of this. In our case, we tend to pull kids from the Peninsula. Gives them the oppotunity to play turf cricket.
 
Last edited:
Super Saint said:
.


I think the above captures how Hatch does or should work.

I know we have 'outside' coaches to try and get rid of the perception that we are trying to poach players. In fact, we have lost players to VTCA clubs as a result of this. In our case, we tend to pull kids from the Peninsula. Gives them the oppotunity to play turf cricket.
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree with Super Saint here, as a neighbouring club to a Subbies club and a previous Junior Co-ordinator for my club, I have no hesitation in recommending our eligible lads have a crack at Hatch. For all the above reasons. Hatch seems to run well in parallel with the CV Pathway and offers Juniors the opportunity to extend their cricket experience. This includes exposure at trial training sessions to fresh sets of eyes and opinions, differing training methods and if selected obviously match exposure at representative level on turf. All of his can only add to the cricket experience, whether or not the lad goes on to play for another ten or twenty years. The worries over poaching have to be addressed by each Sub-District Club- I can only say our club has never had an issue with Super Saint's club and they have a great deal of respect for their approach to junior cricket in the area.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top