Test XI Selection Thread
- Thread starter Boris
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LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Test XI Selection Thread - NZ Tour
No, not at all.
Rather, I'm saying that North probably only has 2 chances to make a substantial score - the first innings of each match.
As we saw during our summer, often in the 2nd innings North had to come in with a declaration imminent. It makes it hard then to build an innings of note.
No, not at all.
Rather, I'm saying that North probably only has 2 chances to make a substantial score - the first innings of each match.
As we saw during our summer, often in the 2nd innings North had to come in with a declaration imminent. It makes it hard then to build an innings of note.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in New Zealand
Pretty dismal, even pathetic effort so far on Day 4 by the Australian bowlers. The concerning thing is that there doesn't appear to be a concerted effort to change the tempo of the game, Ponting is walking around with hands in pockets. The rest of the team are covered up from head to toe, almost like the wind has sucked all life out of them. It reminds me of the Windies in England earlier this year, where the windies just acquiesced to anything England did.
Sure, it is windy, but eventually you would think they'd take the bull between the teeth and just deal with it.
New Zealand, to be perfectly honest, don't even look like losing a wicket and we were pretty lucky to even get Vettori out, bowled playing on off a sweep shot.
Hauritz has been solid, but it would have been nice to see Ponting change it up from that end with either North or Katich.
Mitchell Johnson had a bit to say before the series, and his bowled like shit. Pace is down, is action seems to be even lower than it usually is. All in all, his a liability at the moment. Dropped a sitter of a catch in his follow through after lunch. After enduring the shit he dished up in the Ashes at crucial times you start to lose patience with Johnson when his in this type of form - especially when he bowled well during the ODI series.
It's hard to shake the notion that Johnson is mentally weak, once he performed well in the ODI series and the expectation came on him to perform his whole action was fallen to bits. His been overshadowed by Doug Bollinger - which is unthinkable considering Johnson's experience. His war cry's before the match about how he wanted the new ball was cringeworthy considering the shit he dished up here.
People will argue that the bowlers are tired, but they should see it as a challenge. That is the disappointing thing, they haven't risen to that challenge.
Johnson has been the most disappointing - and by a fair margin as well.
NZ lead by 61, and could easily get a lead of 150+ the way they are going at the moment with McCullum in. Considering our recent history of 2nd innings batting performances this game isn't over yet.
It reminds me of the MCG match against South Africa, we were had all but broken South Africa but then they came back into the match almost unchecked.
This Australian team has the capability of putting good teams on the ropes, but of late they have displayed a trend of not finishing teams off with regards to taking 20 wickets.
Pretty dismal, even pathetic effort so far on Day 4 by the Australian bowlers. The concerning thing is that there doesn't appear to be a concerted effort to change the tempo of the game, Ponting is walking around with hands in pockets. The rest of the team are covered up from head to toe, almost like the wind has sucked all life out of them. It reminds me of the Windies in England earlier this year, where the windies just acquiesced to anything England did.
Sure, it is windy, but eventually you would think they'd take the bull between the teeth and just deal with it.
New Zealand, to be perfectly honest, don't even look like losing a wicket and we were pretty lucky to even get Vettori out, bowled playing on off a sweep shot.
Hauritz has been solid, but it would have been nice to see Ponting change it up from that end with either North or Katich.
Mitchell Johnson had a bit to say before the series, and his bowled like shit. Pace is down, is action seems to be even lower than it usually is. All in all, his a liability at the moment. Dropped a sitter of a catch in his follow through after lunch. After enduring the shit he dished up in the Ashes at crucial times you start to lose patience with Johnson when his in this type of form - especially when he bowled well during the ODI series.
It's hard to shake the notion that Johnson is mentally weak, once he performed well in the ODI series and the expectation came on him to perform his whole action was fallen to bits. His been overshadowed by Doug Bollinger - which is unthinkable considering Johnson's experience. His war cry's before the match about how he wanted the new ball was cringeworthy considering the shit he dished up here.
People will argue that the bowlers are tired, but they should see it as a challenge. That is the disappointing thing, they haven't risen to that challenge.
Johnson has been the most disappointing - and by a fair margin as well.
NZ lead by 61, and could easily get a lead of 150+ the way they are going at the moment with McCullum in. Considering our recent history of 2nd innings batting performances this game isn't over yet.
It reminds me of the MCG match against South Africa, we were had all but broken South Africa but then they came back into the match almost unchecked.
This Australian team has the capability of putting good teams on the ropes, but of late they have displayed a trend of not finishing teams off with regards to taking 20 wickets.
Caesar
Member
Re: Australia in New Zealand
This has been a concern since before the Ashes. Our bowlers are pretty good, but even with a full-strength lineup Johnson is the only one who is capable of taking a lot of Test wickets regularly. The others can generally be relied on for a few each match, and if they're running really hot then sometimes they might get 4 in an innings.
We'd probably be okay if MJ still chipped in with a couple even when he's not bowling 100%. But he's all or nothing - when he's serving up pies, the other guys usually don't have the capacity to get the job done on their own.
This has been a concern since before the Ashes. Our bowlers are pretty good, but even with a full-strength lineup Johnson is the only one who is capable of taking a lot of Test wickets regularly. The others can generally be relied on for a few each match, and if they're running really hot then sometimes they might get 4 in an innings.
We'd probably be okay if MJ still chipped in with a couple even when he's not bowling 100%. But he's all or nothing - when he's serving up pies, the other guys usually don't have the capacity to get the job done on their own.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in New Zealand
I'd argue that Bollinger has surpassed Johnson as the spearhead, at least Bollinger is capable of tailing the ball back into the right hander.
You could argue that making New Zealand follow on is going to make it hard for the bowlers with regards to workloads, however, that is just the way it is.
The lack of penetration in the attack since we made NZ follow on is concerning, not just for this match, but for the future as well. What happens if we score 500 declared at the SCG with the Ashes 2-2 and we need to make England follow on due to the prospect of bad weather?
Having to bat again to give your bowlers time to rest means you reduce your ability to win the game simply because your using more time to get to the final result. More time means more chance of factors coming into the match that are out of your control, such as the weather.
Hauritz has been our best bowler in this innings, Harris is down on pace while Bollinger is as stiff as a Bangkok prison sentence. Those guys are feeling the pinch since they had to back up and go again.
Johnson is damn lucky to have a wicket in the match (Southee) and really needs to lift his game. It is concerning that he can go from bowling superbly in the ODI format to dishing out the tripe he has done here.
Our inability to finish teams off when they were on the ropes cost us the home series against South Africa and it cost us the Ashes.
It is disappointing, because this game should have finished today. With England coming up, one really wonders whether we can take 20 wickets against a team that bats deep down the order even though our batting would fancy a crack at England's bowling lineup.
For a guy that has taken 140 wickets Johnson still regularly doesn't know what is going on.
Caesar;394566 said:
I'd argue that Bollinger has surpassed Johnson as the spearhead, at least Bollinger is capable of tailing the ball back into the right hander.
You could argue that making New Zealand follow on is going to make it hard for the bowlers with regards to workloads, however, that is just the way it is.
The lack of penetration in the attack since we made NZ follow on is concerning, not just for this match, but for the future as well. What happens if we score 500 declared at the SCG with the Ashes 2-2 and we need to make England follow on due to the prospect of bad weather?
Having to bat again to give your bowlers time to rest means you reduce your ability to win the game simply because your using more time to get to the final result. More time means more chance of factors coming into the match that are out of your control, such as the weather.
Hauritz has been our best bowler in this innings, Harris is down on pace while Bollinger is as stiff as a Bangkok prison sentence. Those guys are feeling the pinch since they had to back up and go again.
Johnson is damn lucky to have a wicket in the match (Southee) and really needs to lift his game. It is concerning that he can go from bowling superbly in the ODI format to dishing out the tripe he has done here.
Our inability to finish teams off when they were on the ropes cost us the home series against South Africa and it cost us the Ashes.
It is disappointing, because this game should have finished today. With England coming up, one really wonders whether we can take 20 wickets against a team that bats deep down the order even though our batting would fancy a crack at England's bowling lineup.
For a guy that has taken 140 wickets Johnson still regularly doesn't know what is going on.
Caesar
Member
Re: Australia in New Zealand
I reserve judgement on Bollinger until he's played a few more games. He's had a couple of matches with very good returns, I want to see if that's going to be a regular occurrence or not before I say that we can rely on him to bag a lot of wickets consistently.
I reserve judgement on Bollinger until he's played a few more games. He's had a couple of matches with very good returns, I want to see if that's going to be a regular occurrence or not before I say that we can rely on him to bag a lot of wickets consistently.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in New Zealand
Of course, but the thing I like about Bollinger is his intent, the way he charges in to bowl. With Johnson I don't get that impression. In fact, I think his a bit mentally weak.
Of course, but the thing I like about Bollinger is his intent, the way he charges in to bowl. With Johnson I don't get that impression. In fact, I think his a bit mentally weak.
Re: Australia in New Zealand
When Johnson is your most experienced player you know something is wrong.
He's very similar to Lee in his early days, I would never have had Lee as the spearhead team leader until his last 3 years of playing, before then he was a strike bowler that you put on to get wickets when nobody else was.
That is what Johnson needs to be. The team balance IMO is off.
When Johnson is your most experienced player you know something is wrong.
He's very similar to Lee in his early days, I would never have had Lee as the spearhead team leader until his last 3 years of playing, before then he was a strike bowler that you put on to get wickets when nobody else was.
That is what Johnson needs to be. The team balance IMO is off.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in New Zealand
Johnson doesn't need to be either of that Boris, he just needs to be able to hold a consistent line and length outside offstump.
Johnson doesn't need to be either of that Boris, he just needs to be able to hold a consistent line and length outside offstump.
Re: Australia in New Zealand
Johnson at this point in time is a strike bowler who gets wickets with good balls. A line and length bowler holds the line and length until they mess up, prying on small technical errors. Strike bowlers blast batsmen out, not necessarily with pace either.
He gets a lot of wickets targeting the rib cage, some yorkers and wide slower balls way outside off stump.
Johnson is unable to hold that line, he gets his wickets with the unexpected. The trouble is that sometimes leaks runs, but is essential in a team.
Right now Bollinger and Harris are the ones that hold their lines. You can't make Johnson do that as well.
Johnson at this point in time is a strike bowler who gets wickets with good balls. A line and length bowler holds the line and length until they mess up, prying on small technical errors. Strike bowlers blast batsmen out, not necessarily with pace either.
He gets a lot of wickets targeting the rib cage, some yorkers and wide slower balls way outside off stump.
Johnson is unable to hold that line, he gets his wickets with the unexpected. The trouble is that sometimes leaks runs, but is essential in a team.
Right now Bollinger and Harris are the ones that hold their lines. You can't make Johnson do that as well.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in New Zealand
Sure, but with 4 bowlers, if Johnson is out of whack, as he is now, then it becomes very difficult for us as a team to take 20 wickets; especially in the 2nd innings when bowlers start feeling tired.
With Watson out this problem was been magnified.
It's not like Johnson has been unlucky, in this match he has been deplorable. Ricky Ponting should demand more from a senior player. Johnson needs to come out tomorrow and blast these guys out and show some fire - bowl a bouncer, abuse someone, just do something but bowl a long hop and then run your fingers through how hair when your belted for six.
Warne made the point during the Australian season that how Johnson starts a spell is crucial to whether he will have a good day or not. In other words, if he starts poorly then he doesn't recover, to me that indicates a sign of mental weakness.
There comes a point in a bowler's career where you can reasonably expect a decent line and length, not least from a guy who has taken 140 odd wickets. We simply cannot function if our so called strike bowler is unable to hit the cut strip. We saw that during the Ashes at Lords when Johnson lost it.
That is not hypberbole either, if any team has there main bowler go AWOL then they are in trouble. We saw that with Steyn this time last year in the first 2 test matchs in South Africa, we saw it with Harmison.
Fact is, the Kiwi's are in a with decent chance of saving this match, or even pushing for a unlikely win when they were on the canvas a day or two ago.
It has happened again - just like the MCG 2008, just like during the Ashes.
Sure, but with 4 bowlers, if Johnson is out of whack, as he is now, then it becomes very difficult for us as a team to take 20 wickets; especially in the 2nd innings when bowlers start feeling tired.
With Watson out this problem was been magnified.
It's not like Johnson has been unlucky, in this match he has been deplorable. Ricky Ponting should demand more from a senior player. Johnson needs to come out tomorrow and blast these guys out and show some fire - bowl a bouncer, abuse someone, just do something but bowl a long hop and then run your fingers through how hair when your belted for six.
Warne made the point during the Australian season that how Johnson starts a spell is crucial to whether he will have a good day or not. In other words, if he starts poorly then he doesn't recover, to me that indicates a sign of mental weakness.
There comes a point in a bowler's career where you can reasonably expect a decent line and length, not least from a guy who has taken 140 odd wickets. We simply cannot function if our so called strike bowler is unable to hit the cut strip. We saw that during the Ashes at Lords when Johnson lost it.
That is not hypberbole either, if any team has there main bowler go AWOL then they are in trouble. We saw that with Steyn this time last year in the first 2 test matchs in South Africa, we saw it with Harmison.
Fact is, the Kiwi's are in a with decent chance of saving this match, or even pushing for a unlikely win when they were on the canvas a day or two ago.
It has happened again - just like the MCG 2008, just like during the Ashes.
Re: Australia in New Zealand
I see your point, but I'm saying I don't like the team make up in general.
Johnson is not the leader of the bowling attack. He is not the one you have bowling for 30 overs a day like McGrath would. You use him like Lee used to be used, in short bursts when batsmen are set and unmoving hoping for a mistake, or when batsmen are new to the crease and you want a quick unpatient wicket.
He isn't mentally strong, but that doesn't matter as much if you use him like that. You have to use that impatience to your advantage and not let him stress himself out.
Bollinger has been used in the same way as Johnson has and it isn't working as well as it probably should. Against New Zealand it's not as big an ask as playing someone with a decent Test rating.
This is a discussion for the Australian Selection Thread anyway.
What I'm saying is that Harris and Bollinger need to be bowled more in tandem with Hauritz, who is bowled at about the right amount IMO, and then Johnson to come on during those times mentioned above.
Every bowler gets out of form, he is a long term member of the team and Ponting needs to acknowledge that and if he is out of sorts, give him a few overs to regather and a word of advice.
I'm also not playing Harris next game.
I see your point, but I'm saying I don't like the team make up in general.
Johnson is not the leader of the bowling attack. He is not the one you have bowling for 30 overs a day like McGrath would. You use him like Lee used to be used, in short bursts when batsmen are set and unmoving hoping for a mistake, or when batsmen are new to the crease and you want a quick unpatient wicket.
He isn't mentally strong, but that doesn't matter as much if you use him like that. You have to use that impatience to your advantage and not let him stress himself out.
Bollinger has been used in the same way as Johnson has and it isn't working as well as it probably should. Against New Zealand it's not as big an ask as playing someone with a decent Test rating.
This is a discussion for the Australian Selection Thread anyway.
What I'm saying is that Harris and Bollinger need to be bowled more in tandem with Hauritz, who is bowled at about the right amount IMO, and then Johnson to come on during those times mentioned above.
Every bowler gets out of form, he is a long term member of the team and Ponting needs to acknowledge that and if he is out of sorts, give him a few overs to regather and a word of advice.
I'm also not playing Harris next game.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in New Zealand
I disagree, it doesn't matter who you bowl Johnson with - at the minute his bowling crap, and he needs to fix it. I'm fast losing patience with this guy.
I disagree, it doesn't matter who you bowl Johnson with - at the minute his bowling crap, and he needs to fix it. I'm fast losing patience with this guy.
Re: Australia in New Zealand
I'm not saying his bowling isn't crap currently.
He is out of form, in Tests anyway, but has been great over his career so far so give him the time he deserves to get out of the slump.
It does matter who you are bowling him with. If you are bowling him with someone who is leaking runs at the other end the batsman are getting so much confidence from it. Bowl someone at the other end who restricts them then Johnson can get wickets. He can't get wickets without that surprise factor, if they are getting a different ball every ball at the other end and putting them all away it doesn't work.
Let him get back into some sort of rythym. He is nowhere near being dropped and has been more than useful in the near past.
I'm not saying his bowling isn't crap currently.
He is out of form, in Tests anyway, but has been great over his career so far so give him the time he deserves to get out of the slump.
It does matter who you are bowling him with. If you are bowling him with someone who is leaking runs at the other end the batsman are getting so much confidence from it. Bowl someone at the other end who restricts them then Johnson can get wickets. He can't get wickets without that surprise factor, if they are getting a different ball every ball at the other end and putting them all away it doesn't work.
Let him get back into some sort of rythym. He is nowhere near being dropped and has been more than useful in the near past.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in New Zealand
No his nowhere near being dropped, mainly because we don't have a full quota to pick from.
Bollinger, on current form, is ahead of Johnson.
We then have the likes of Siddle and Hilfenhaus to come back into the frame.
Johnson would be wise to pull his finger out, sooner rather than later.
No his nowhere near being dropped, mainly because we don't have a full quota to pick from.
Bollinger, on current form, is ahead of Johnson.
We then have the likes of Siddle and Hilfenhaus to come back into the frame.
Johnson would be wise to pull his finger out, sooner rather than later.
Re: Test XI Selection Thread - NZ Tour
Australia bowling make up?
I want to add someone else in there. I don't see that much potential in Johnson, Bollinger, Hilfenhaus, Siddle, McKay and Harris.
You would have to think that Johnson, Bollinger and Hilfenhaus are the full strength attack there. I haven't thought this from the start, and still don't, I don't think there is enough in that to get 20 wickets every match.
Australia bowling make up?
I want to add someone else in there. I don't see that much potential in Johnson, Bollinger, Hilfenhaus, Siddle, McKay and Harris.
You would have to think that Johnson, Bollinger and Hilfenhaus are the full strength attack there. I haven't thought this from the start, and still don't, I don't think there is enough in that to get 20 wickets every match.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Test XI Selection Thread - NZ Tour
I think with Watson as a 5th bowling option, and with an attack of Johnson, Bollinger, Hilfenhaus and Hauritz then we are capable of taking 20 wickets.
But I tell you what, the selectors won't cop Johnson going for 0/100 for too much longer if it starts curtailing our ability to win cricket matchs. Johnson's also been batting poorly of late.
I think Johnson on form is one of the most destructive bowlers in the world, but there comes a point where potential has to start correlating with performance.
I think with Watson as a 5th bowling option, and with an attack of Johnson, Bollinger, Hilfenhaus and Hauritz then we are capable of taking 20 wickets.
But I tell you what, the selectors won't cop Johnson going for 0/100 for too much longer if it starts curtailing our ability to win cricket matchs. Johnson's also been batting poorly of late.
I think Johnson on form is one of the most destructive bowlers in the world, but there comes a point where potential has to start correlating with performance.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in New Zealand
Overall, the Australians would be pretty pleased with what happened in the first test, a comprehensive win.
Bollinger bowled well with fire and pace, Hauritz did a sterling job - especially pushing up into that cyclonic wind on day 4.
Johnson, as I said earlier, was ordinary.
At his best Johnson gets the ball to drift away late from the right handers, when he hits that line just outside off with that late drift away in the air he is a handful to face. Unfortunately, he wasn't on his game in this match.
Harris had a good debut, and did what was expected of him. Noticeably, Ponting gave him a very strong endorsement at the post-match press conference.
I'm not sure on Hilfenhaus' injury status at the moment, but the word is that he will be right for the Pakistan test matchs in England in a few months time. Siddle probably won't play for Australia again for a few years; stress fractures normally mean a long recovery period coupled with a change in action.
Watson coming back into the side will give the team that balance that we were lacking here. The word is that Hamilton will be dry and that it will take spin. This means that there should be reverse swing, of which Watson is best equipped to utilise that.
All the batsmen had strong starts bar Hussey, who in fairness got a good one early, although he needs to get back to leaving more balls early. Hopefully, the punter can give him the once over in the nets this week before the 2nd test, and that Hussey fires.
I can't really see our batting lineup changing before the Ashes.
Overall, the Australians would be pretty pleased with what happened in the first test, a comprehensive win.
Bollinger bowled well with fire and pace, Hauritz did a sterling job - especially pushing up into that cyclonic wind on day 4.
Johnson, as I said earlier, was ordinary.
At his best Johnson gets the ball to drift away late from the right handers, when he hits that line just outside off with that late drift away in the air he is a handful to face. Unfortunately, he wasn't on his game in this match.
Harris had a good debut, and did what was expected of him. Noticeably, Ponting gave him a very strong endorsement at the post-match press conference.
I'm not sure on Hilfenhaus' injury status at the moment, but the word is that he will be right for the Pakistan test matchs in England in a few months time. Siddle probably won't play for Australia again for a few years; stress fractures normally mean a long recovery period coupled with a change in action.
Watson coming back into the side will give the team that balance that we were lacking here. The word is that Hamilton will be dry and that it will take spin. This means that there should be reverse swing, of which Watson is best equipped to utilise that.
All the batsmen had strong starts bar Hussey, who in fairness got a good one early, although he needs to get back to leaving more balls early. Hopefully, the punter can give him the once over in the nets this week before the 2nd test, and that Hussey fires.
I can't really see our batting lineup changing before the Ashes.