The Big Leg-Break

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Re: The Big Leg-Break

I tell people here and elsewhere about how hard this wrist spin bowling is - but at the minute I'm there in the midst of a difficult phase where nothing seems simple, everything is going wrong and I'm getting smacked out of the park in games. Last night persevered with this for an hour or so, some successes some sliding backwards. It seems each time I go out and practice the results are always slightly different and last night there seemed to be some mileage in a slightly more up-right hand position along with the big flick. I'll probably try again tonight and attempt to repeat what I was doing last night - but I wont be holding my breath......
 
Warne stated that his grip is two finger down two finger down and the ball just sits in between them and the thumb rests on the ball.I asked to my coach what role does the thumb play he say "It helps the seam go perpendicular to the pitch".And when I tried it I was astonished by the turn

So summing up for the biggest legbreak possible for me:
bowl as round as you can
keep your thumb on the ball
let the seam hit the deck
flick your wrist as hard as possible

And ill share a video in which warne gets both sidespin+topspin and a pure legbreak

​
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
Warne stated that his grip is two finger down two finger down and the ball just sits in between them and the thumb rests on the ball.I asked to my coach what role does the thumb play he say "It helps the seam go perpendicular to the pitch".And when I tried it I was astonished by the turn ​
​
So summing up for the biggest legbreak possible for me:​
bowl as round as you can​
keep your thumb on the ball​
let the seam hit the deck​
flick your wrist as hard as possible​
​
And ill share a video in which warne gets both sidespin+topspin and a pure legbreak ​
​
​
Click to expand...


Good find. The bit where Simon Hughes offers his opinion 2/3rds of the way in is very useful in that it demonstrates that you've not got to get the seam at 90 degrees to the flight to get the ball to turn. The ball at 45 degrees, allowing more top spin for me is looking more and more like the optimum way to bowl. I can see that the ball at 90 is obviously going to give another dimension - far more turn if it hits some 'Real' rough and if there isn't any rough and the wicket is pretty much intact, I think there's the potential for the ball to 'bite' less with the 90 degree seam and as in this clip - not turn as much as the 45 degree angled ball?
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Good find. The bit where Simon Hughes offers his opinion 2/3rds of the way in is very useful in that it demonstrates that you've not got to get the seam at 90 degrees to the flight to get the ball to turn. The ball at 45 degrees, allowing more top spin for me is looking more and more like the optimum way to bowl. I can see that the ball at 90 is obviously going to give another dimension - far more turn if it hits some 'Real' rough and if there isn't any rough and the wicket is pretty much intact, I think there's the potential for the ball to 'bite' less with the 90 degree seam and as in this clip - not turn as much as the 45 degree angled ball?
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@Dave the position of the seam depends upon on the wrist position i tried a ball to a right hander with all side spin that turned square the wrist was perfect the the flick was great. That day I was experimenting 45 degree seam gets more dip and drift but i found that for square turn the the seam should be "square" if you know what I mean.I have a question dave which is better bowling with the wind or against it ?
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
@Dave the position of the seam depends upon on the wrist position i tried a ball to a right hander with all side spin that turned square the wrist was perfect the the flick was great. That day I was experimenting 45 degree seam gets more dip and drift but i found that for square turn the the seam should be "square" if you know what I mean.I have a question dave which is better bowling with the wind or against it ?
Click to expand...
Saradhy Krishnan said:
@Dave the position of the seam depends upon on the wrist position i tried a ball to a right hander with all side spin that turned square the wrist was perfect the the flick was great. That day I was experimenting 45 degree seam gets more dip and drift but i found that for square turn the the seam should be "square" if you know what I mean.I have a question dave which is better bowling with the wind or against it ?
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Macca and most others including Philpott all say into the wind - it increases the drift potential and dip is more dramatic.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Macca and most others including Philpott all say into the wind - it increases the drift potential and dip is more dramatic.
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Yeah well I only say it because it is a given really ,"spinners into the breeze" but it is not always that straight forwards.
State of the wicket can come into it and it is the degree of cross breeze that can determine the best end.

Also going way back Grimmett used to reckon it was good to bowl legspin with the wind behind you on dead set slow tracks. And I have also found records and reports to show he liked to bowl his flipper with a tailwind.
 
I have heard in one of the warne masterclass there are many types of legbreak
A side spinner
The one with more top spin
I am fascinated by drift and I would like to know which one gets more drift :)
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
I have heard in one of the warne masterclass there are many types of legbreak
A side spinner
The one with more top spin
I am fascinated by drift and I would like to know which one gets more drift :)
Click to expand...

Sidespin for drift. Crossbreeze from cover side will help but you can drift against a breeze if you spin hard enough.

Good test to have someone behind stumps (or camera) at keepers spot to concentrate, line up and observe your drift. Occasionally have them check and see if you can drift against the breeze.
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
I have heard in one of the warne masterclass there are many types of legbreak
A side spinner
The one with more top spin
I am fascinated by drift and I would like to know which one gets more drift :)
Click to expand...

Have a look at this article I'm putting together on drift and some of the observations regarding the spinning sphere in general. This is nowhere near finished and I doubt that I'll be able to get to the bottom of it in the way that I thought I might be able to. There's a big section in Bob Woolmers book 'The Art and Science of Cricket' where he looks at drift and explains it, but I need to go back to it and read it again as it didn't sink in for me first time round. There's an interesting bit in the same book where he examines Warnes Ball of the Century and comes to an interesting conclusion with regards that actual delivery - the essence of which is that the ball spun at 90 degrees to the direct of flight with a vertical axis wont drift and for that ball to have drifted so much the axis of the ball must have been tilted backwards. The explantaion is to do with the way air passes over the ball and the seam. http://www.mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2011/11/leg-spin-bowling-drift.html
 
yeah the left hand while gather is it important to push down ? the right hip, and where the head position should be ? And Dave do you have any idea what sort of degree is warnes arm while bowling ?
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
yeah the left hand while gather is it important to push down ? the right hip, and where the head position should be ? And Dave do you have any idea what sort of degree is warnes arm while bowling ?
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Quick reply for the minute, but I'll come back later. I'm not on here much at the minute as I'm a lecturer and the college I work at is being visited by the Government next week to see if we're any good as teachers and as a college - so I'm kind of busy.

The answer. With regards Warne, no I don't and he probably varies it from one ball to another. I think also you'll probably advised not to try emulating Warnes action too much if that's what you're trying to do. Warne serves as a template for your bowling to some extent, but to be able to emulate everything he does probably wont work as we all have individual physiques.
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
yeah the left hand while gather is it important to push down ? the right hip, and where the head position should be ? And Dave do you have any idea what sort of degree is warnes arm while bowling ?
Click to expand...

Probably easier to think in terms of correct foot placement rather than hip movement but in my opinion you see an almost 160, 170, 180 degree (?) turn round and up from start to finish of the right hip in a good action. Head should be as still as possible during all this effort.

I remember Warne talking on tv saying something along the lines of he felt his arm was at about half past ten. 11 o clock was too high and ten o clock too roundarm.

Talking bout warne and his action, a lot of what he ended up doing was based on Dennis Lillees action. That was the action he copied as a kid and you see remnants of it in the way he uses his left hand.
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
... the big leg break? and I want your opinion on what way you can bowl your best legbreak
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Best and biggest are mostly 2 different things.

In our local conditions if the surface is good the best legbreak will have a fair bit of topspin. The biggest will have some backspin most likely.

The topspinning one has to be your stock ball round here and the big sidespinner/backspinner a variation.

A good way we found to work on a big spinner is work on your backspinner. If it comes out wrong you usually get a big but slowish legbreak. A couple of other guys have posted good results here with this method.

I reckon I saw Macgill get a wicket with a backspinner "gone wrong" last week.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
The Big Leg-Break

Clarrie Grimmett in his book 'Taking Wickets' describes for the *first time ever back in the 1930 how the wrist can be used at different angles using the same grip to get the ball to turn off the wicket with Top-Spin; Leg-spin; Back-spin and Off-spin. Peter Philpott in his book 'The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling' takes the explanation a step further and comes up with the 'Round the loop' model to describe the wrist positions more clearly. Additionally Philpott adds the notion of spinning the ball in-towards the body at the point of release in order to produce the 'Big Leg-Break'.

YouTube - Wrist spin - round the loop - slider & big Leg Break practice technique

Standing still as in the video I can relase the ball letting it go forward a little way and because of the back-spin either get it to stall (Slider) or get it to land and turn at 90 degrees to the forward flight when released. Over the last 2 years I've been working with this technique which includes a very pronounced flick of the wrist and fingers trying to bowl it over some distance. I've always found that the combination of the maximum wrist and flinger flick is so difficult to replicate consistently that the ball has been uncontrollable, doing everything that a Leg-Break shouldn't, including not-turning 80% of the time. Faced with that failure rate I've found it very difficult to justify and commit to putting in the obvious hours required to get the action more consistent. But I've had short periods where maybe 6-10 balls every now and then have come out of the hand correctly and they've turned in the manner that the 'Biggun' should. The line and length has been wrong, but just for a handful of balls the synchronisation of most of the components - Fingers, wrist, arm and shoulder has come together perfectly and you feel it ripping off the fingers and you know that it's going to turn massive and it does. Its been these moments that have kept me returning to it to try it every now and then.

This year, after a very good year last year of massive experimentation with several variations I've commited to bowling 95% Leg-Breaks with 3 variations. Four balls which I've generally mastered fairly well. This has meant that this year my 'Developmental' ball is the Big Leg-Break, which means I'll be putting in a lot of time trying to get it sussed.

Today I think I've had a break through, I've been getting the synchronisation of the upper body elements together over a distance of about 12 yards using hockey balls on concrete/tarmac bowling at a thin bit of brick-work between two garages outside my house (About 45cms wide) and I've been able to land the ball very wide of the bricks getting the ball to turn back in and hit the bricks. With the improvement in weather of late, today I was able to get out into the paddock where I practice during the season and try this delivery over a longer length 15-16 yards. It worked and furthermore my accuracy was good enough to use in a match situation! But in addition to the accuracy was the consistency, the ball was coming out of the hand after a few dodgy ones at the start, perfectly 95% of the time, so 2 key elements seemed to come together today over a much longer distance - line and length and the ability to repeat the action again and again. I'm just hoping now that when I try it again - I'll be able to repeat the action and continue with the Line and length success. If that happens - I'll work on extending the distance. It now looks promising and as though if the weather holds out I may get this sussed before the season?

*Unless you know otherwise.

24hrs later...... In the drizzle I went over to an old tennis court near me with the Hockey Balls and had another go and extended the length to 20 yards. It went okay and looks promising in the longer term. Line was generally good, length was a bit iffy and the consistency of the release technique was erratic. Additionally over the longer distance with the need to propel the ball faster the sting was being taken out of the turn off the wicket a bit, but it was still bigger than my usual leg-break and this is with a ball with no seam. The longer term prospects look promising.
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Hi someblokecalleddave,well I do bowl the 'Big Leg Break'.I dont have any problem with that.I will soon upload a video of that.And also use the big leg break to get the batsman out around the legs.
 
Shivam_ipl said:
Hi someblokecalleddave,well I do bowl the 'Big Leg Break'.I dont have any problem with that.I will soon upload a video of that.And also use the big leg break to get the batsman out around the legs.
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It'll be good to see! What's your strike rate like over a season - your best season for instance?
 
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