The Off-Spinning Flipper

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Shivam_ipl said:
No!funk192,
you are the experts.I am not just a kid.You are the ones who will teah me.There is no coach to tell me the art of wrist spin.I practise in my backyard.As my father is my coach.Still The art of wrist spin could be hard for him.Even he sees the big cricket and tells me all about.The problem is I am not able to eplode.
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Sounds like you're doing the right thing, just watch the videos on youtube of the experts. If you ever meet any spinners when you're playing talk to them and ask them questions. Then do as you are - read the forum and ask questions and tell us what you're doing and struggling with and we'll try and help as much as we can.
 
Thanx....
Someblokecalleddave and funk192,I will follow what ever you say.And can you tell me how to explode at the crease.Earlier the ques was wrongly typed.
 
Shivam_ipl said:
Thanx....
Someblokecalleddave and funk192,I will follow what ever you say.And can you tell me how to explode at the crease.Earlier the ques was wrongly typed.
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Have a look at this drill this gives you some guidance on working on your 'Explosion through the crease'. There's a coaching video here in England that is almost impossible to get hold of that features Terry Jenner, its produced by Terry Jenner in conjunction with the ECB. In the video he emphasises that the stand-start drill in this Beau Casson video is one of the most important drills you can do in conjunction with your bowling. Give it a go, Jenner says to do it into a net so that there's no outcome with the ball, what you're looking at and trying to learn is the explosive action through the crease. If you can video it as well that'll be useful to have a look at.
 
I'm dragging a very old thread out of the dark here, but I just discovered it whilst searching for details on the off-spinning flipper.

Through messing about with the flipper and different wrist positions, I came up with a delivery that is exactly as Jim describes on page one. With the wrist cocked as much as possible so that the ball is almost touching the inside of my wrist, then the wrist opens towards the off-side as the ball is flicked out. Unlike Jim, I am bowling all the balls with side-spin and no back-spin at all. The end result is that some of the balls turn massively (probably too much). The two key points are to cock the wrist as much as you can (which, trust me, is tough and can be uncomfortable) and to flick the ball as hard as you can.

I've been using a two coloured ball and videoing it. It felt to me as if my arm would be bending a fair bit and the whole action would look loose and easy to pick. In fact, the arm wasn't bent at all and the action looked just like a leg-spinner up until the release (the only tell is, as Jim mentioned, the thumb on the ball). It was a pleasant surprise and after bowling it to a batter, he told me the action was very much like a leg spinner.

At the moment, it is coming out a touch slow (probably in the 40mph-45mph bracket) but that is improving steadily, as is the accuracy. Apart from the spin into the right handed batter, which is why I worked on the delivery because I just can't bowl a decent wrong un/googly, there are two very pleasing outcomes:

1) I am actually getting the ball to drift away from the batter, which is a sure sign of decent revs and off-spin revs at that and

2) Working on the delivery is helping the leg spinner. After working on the off-spinning flipper for a few mins, the leg spinners come out with a lot more fizz and spin.

Of course, the beauty of this delivery is that you can easily switch to bowling the more orthodox backing spinning flipper.
 
Cleanprophet said:
I'm dragging a very old thread out of the dark here, but I just discovered it whilst searching for details on the off-spinning flipper.

Through messing about with the flipper and different wrist positions, I came up with a delivery that is exactly as Jim describes on page one. With the wrist cocked as much as possible so that the ball is almost touching the inside of my wrist, then the wrist opens towards the off-side as the ball is flicked out. Unlike Jim, I am bowling all the balls with side-spin and no back-spin at all. The end result is that some of the balls turn massively (probably too much). The two key points are to cock the wrist as much as you can (which, trust me, is tough and can be uncomfortable) and to flick the ball as hard as you can.

I've been using a two coloured ball and videoing it. It felt to me as if my arm would be bending a fair bit and the whole action would look loose and easy to pick. In fact, the arm wasn't bent at all and the action looked just like a leg-spinner up until the release (the only tell is, as Jim mentioned, the thumb on the ball). It was a pleasant surprise and after bowling it to a batter, he told me the action was very much like a leg spinner.

At the moment, it is coming out a touch slow (probably in the 40mph-45mph bracket) but that is improving steadily, as is the accuracy. Apart from the spin into the right handed batter, which is why I worked on the delivery because I just can't bowl a decent wrong un/googly, there are two very pleasing outcomes:

1) I am actually getting the ball to drift away from the batter, which is a sure sign of decent revs and off-spin revs at that and

2) Working on the delivery is helping the leg spinner. After working on the off-spinning flipper for a few mins, the leg spinners come out with a lot more fizz and spin.

Of course, the beauty of this delivery is that you can easily switch to bowling the more orthodox backing spinning flipper.
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"This ball I called my offbreak flipper, it proved to be a very successful ball, being much harder to detect then my ordinary googly because I did not have to drop my left shoulder to bowl it." C.V Grimmett.

"Both Grimmett and Pepper could bowl a bosie by some means other than out of the back of the hand. Clarrie spent years perfecting his offbreak "flicker" (sic) and then schooled Cec Pepper in the skill. Clarrie Grimmett was the greatest slow bowler the world has seen and I doubt we will see his like again." D.G Bradman
 
macca said:
"This ball I called my offbreak flipper, it proved to be a very successful ball, being much harder to detect then my ordinary googly because I did not have to drop my left shoulder to bowl it." C.V Grimmett.

"Both Grimmett and Pepper could bowl a bosie by some means other than out of the back of the hand. Clarrie spent years perfecting his offbreak "flicker" (sic) and then schooled Cec Pepper in the skill. Clarrie Grimmett was the greatest slow bowler the world has seen and I doubt we will see his like again." D.G Bradman
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For those who don't bowl a very good googly but can bowl a decent flipper, the offbreak flipper is something they should really work on. It is a bit awkward and can be uncomfortable, but I can see why Grimmett found it to be a very succesful ball.
 
This is the first report of the off break flipper from 1932. Grimmett was 3 years into his 12 year development of the flipper. Here some very observant person picked Grimmetts flippers in the indoor nets mid winter and told a journalist. He even heard the clicking sound that Grimmett made with fingers and thumb.

Grimmetts denial is half true.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/67960327
 
Good find that! Grimmett was certainly right to say that just because he does something in the nets, it doesn't mean it is something he could try or would try in a match. It looks to me like they were confusing the normal backspinning flipper with one that has top-spin on it. Understandable because the flipper does skid on. I'm not sure it is possible to bowl a flipper with top-spin. Maybe it is, I don't know. From my attempts, the most I can do is impart side-spin, but it wouldn't surprise me if Grimmett found a way to bowl a flipper with some top-spin.

There seems to be some exaggeration from that journalist when he says the ball pretty much stops in the pitch. That would take an amount of backspin that is impossible to produce or a very, very slow delivery.

The one thing that sticks out is how vital it is to flick the ball as hard as you possibly can. If you're going to be bowling the offbreak flipper, then you really have to impart as much spin as you possibly can. Sometimes the ball will come out with lots of backspin because you haven't got your hand into position correctly. Somtimes it will come out with half back-spin and half side-spin. If the seam is upright, it will look like a leg-spinner to the batsman. Sometimes you will get it right and bowl the offbreak flipper with total side-spin. As long as you flick the ball hard and impart big spin, it matters not a bit how much back-spin or side-spin there is on the ball. Once it has left your hand, it is the batter's problem!

I've bowled that offbreak flipper with a two-coloured ball (I've videoed it too and will get it up on youtube very soon). You can see the direction of the spin very clearly. I've also found that the ball will drift away from the stumps a decent amount. That's a good sign because it means there is a fair amount of revs on the ball and that is what you want.

I bowled it a few times to a batter last week. On one occasion I got it wrong and the ball was short and wide outside off-stump (quite slow too), but it turned square and the batter couldn't put the ball away, even though it was a really poorly bowled delivery.
 
Cleanprophet said:
Good find that!
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Yeah I have got a whole stack more on Grimmett and what he was up to back in the 30's. He premiers the off break flipper in 1938 against Queensland. This is the ball Grimmett told Bosquanet he was working on when he met the great English legspinner at the dinner held during the Oxford v Aus game in 1930.

But Grimmett found it was not as successful as his designated "mystery ball", the overspinner. Still he hardly ever bowled a conventional bosie from 1938 preferring to use his flipper offbreak.
 
macca said:
Still he hardly ever bowled a conventional bosie from 1938 preferring to use his flipper offbreak.
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macca said:
Grimmett demonstrating his flippers in a bar to the English team of 1935.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/75717640?searchTerm=grimmett mystery ball&searchLimits=
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That was quite a funny read. I'm not surprised Grimmett used the offbreak flipper rather than more common wrong 'un once he had developed it fully. I've only been working on it for a few weeks (although I have done a fair bit of work on flipper variations in the past without really knowing fully what I was doing), but I can certainly see it has more potential than the standard wrong 'un. You just get much more spin on the ball and it is a fair bit tougher to pick.
 
Cleanprophet said:
Good find that! Grimmett was certainly right to say that just because he does something in the nets, it doesn't mean it is something he could try or would try in a match. It looks to me like they were confusing the normal backspinning flipper with one that has top-spin on it. Understandable because the flipper does skid on. I'm not sure it is possible to bowl a flipper with top-spin. Maybe it is, I don't know. From my attempts, the most I can do is impart side-spin, but it wouldn't surprise me if Grimmett found a way to bowl a flipper with some top-spin.

There seems to be some exaggeration from that journalist when he says the ball pretty much stops in the pitch. That would take an amount of backspin that is impossible to produce or a very, very slow delivery.

The one thing that sticks out is how vital it is to flick the ball as hard as you possibly can. If you're going to be bowling the offbreak flipper, then you really have to impart as much spin as you possibly can. Sometimes the ball will come out with lots of backspin because you haven't got your hand into position correctly. Somtimes it will come out with half back-spin and half side-spin. If the seam is upright, it will look like a leg-spinner to the batsman. Sometimes you will get it right and bowl the offbreak flipper with total side-spin. As long as you flick the ball hard and impart big spin, it matters not a bit how much back-spin or side-spin there is on the ball. Once it has left your hand, it is the batter's problem!

I've bowled that offbreak flipper with a two-coloured ball (I've videoed it too and will get it up on youtube very soon). You can see the direction of the spin very clearly. I've also found that the ball will drift away from the stumps a decent amount. That's a good sign because it means there is a fair amount of revs on the ball and that is what you want.

I bowled it a few times to a batter last week. On one occasion I got it wrong and the ball was short and wide outside off-stump (quite slow too), but it turned square and the batter couldn't put the ball away, even though it was a really poorly bowled delivery.
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I don't think you have to spin it that hard because your action looks like a leg break in theory, so if they're just looking at the wrist position they'll be ready for the leg break, it would only have to do a little and it'll cause problems.
 
Clean prophet if you are clicking the ball out of the hand using the flipper technique, there are loads of option that make the ball do all sorts of un-predictable stuff! You should try the Top_Spinning flipper and the wrong - wrong un!
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Clean prophet if you are clicking the ball out of the hand using the flipper technique, there are loads of option that make the ball do all sorts of un-predictable stuff! You should try the Top_Spinning flipper and the wrong - wrong un!
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The wrong wrong 'un looks too awkward to me. Not sure how to bowl a top-spinning flipper. I can only just about produce the ball with side-spin. Not sure how to flick the ball out with top spin.
 
My back spinning flipper usually has some off spin on it anyway. Am I doing something wrong? I am happy with the delivery as it is but just wondering. Comes out with backspin like this //.
 
Darth Spin said:
My back spinning flipper usually has some off spin on it anyway. Am I doing something wrong? I am happy with the delivery as it is but just wondering. Comes out with backspin like this //.
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Same for me also. It's just a question of wrist position. With a bit of practice we could straighten that out I'm sure. I haven't bothered because a delivery like that is quite useful as it is.
 
Darth Spin said:
My back spinning flipper usually has some off spin on it anyway. Am I doing something wrong? I am happy with the delivery as it is but just wondering. Comes out with backspin like this //.
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Don't panic as remember the whole point of a flipper is for the ball to do the opposite of the delivery the batsman thinks it is, only get worried when batsman pick it as an offspinning flipper and play it as an offspinning flipper.
 
leftie600 said:
Don't panic as remember the whole point of a flipper is for the ball to do the opposite of the delivery the batsman thinks it is, only get worried when batsman pick it as an offspinning flipper and play it as an offspinning flipper.
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Indeed. As long as you deceive the batsman, that's all that matters. The best way of doing that is to, of course, release the ball with the same arm speed as normal. That's what can take time to master in the flipper. Ensuring your arm speed is the same and you get a good flick on the ball is key. Whether the ball comes out with 100% backspin or more like 70% backspin and 30% offspin doesn't really matter. Ideally, if you are looking to trap the batter on the backfoot and LBW, you would want as much backspin as you can get. But, sometimes these flippers that have a bit of offspin can skid on and in to the batter, which causes different and just as tricky problems for the batter. Not to mention, if you can flick the ball hard enough you will get a bit of drift away from the batter.
 
Cleanprophet said:
. Not sure how to flick the ball out with top spin.
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"As I spun the ball the hand had to be pointed to the left across toward cover.The wrist had to be bent, and the ball allowed to leave over the top of the hand, the back of which was facing the batsman." That is Grimmett describing his hand position for his topspinning flipper, his nominated "mystery ball".
 
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