Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Top Contributors
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;398869 said:
I think I may have got on top of the flipper action now. I haven't actually bowled it yet but I've got it going hand to hand. Just to make sure, is my thumb supposed to roll forwards and around the top of the ball, then give it a nudge on it's way?

Compared with the "baffler" I don't get as much spin, but I guess that's just a question of practise. Also the "baffler" travels a bit quicker out of the hand because of elastic energy stored in the index finger, but this new action is much better disguised as thumb aside the grip is identical to my normal leg-break. It's also not as dependent on the direction in which it's bowled - the "baffler" is only likely to work for backspinners and back-spun off/leg-breaks which turn just a little, as it needs the finger to push the ball in the direction it's aimed in.

I've also got a sort of four-finger flipper (a la Clarie Grimmett) on the go, only I've got one advantage over the old maestro - my fingers don't have and have never had the ability to make a clicking sound :D
Click to expand...

the thumb does kind of come over the top, but only if you really throw your wrist around it. personally my thumb starts pretty much exactly underneath, and ends up just past the horizontal. i dont flick the wrist too hard or it kills the accuracy, and also gives another clue to the delivery.

i currently have 2 methods on the go. one is the well disguised action with the ball deep in my palm, and it looks almost identical to a leg break. the other is more like the 4 finger method, with stretched fingers and the ball suspended much further out of the hand. its pretty obvious to see if you know what youre looking at. but i reckon 99% of batsmen would have no idea what you were bowling. the 4 finger method spins the ball harder.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;398869 said:
I've also got a sort of four-finger flipper (a la Clarie Grimmett) on the go, only I've got one advantage over the old maestro - my fingers don't have and have never had the ability to make a clicking sound :D
Click to expand...


Yeah - that may be a problem if you're trying to bowl flippers!
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Jim2109;398872 said:
the thumb does kind of come over the top, but only if you really throw your wrist around it. personally my thumb starts pretty much exactly underneath, and ends up just past the horizontal. i dont flick the wrist too hard or it kills the accuracy, and also gives another clue to the delivery.

i currently have 2 methods on the go. one is the well disguised action with the ball deep in my palm, and it looks almost identical to a leg break. the other is more like the 4 finger method, with stretched fingers and the ball suspended much further out of the hand. its pretty obvious to see if you know what youre looking at. but i reckon 99% of batsmen would have no idea what you were bowling. the 4 finger method spins the ball harder.
Click to expand...

Yeah 99.99% of batsman wouldn't know a Flipper from Skippy! 99% wouldn't be able to show you a Leg Break grip, they only recognise it once it turns away from the bat!
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

someblokecalleddave;398726 said:
Yeah we need an Offie to chip in and say whether they bowl a flipper of some sort that's a variation of Grimmetts flippers.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any off-spin variations that have exactly the same intention as a flipper, i.e. a purely back-spun ball, but it would seem my "baffler" is similar in its delivery to the Arm Ball. From what I've seen, the Arm Ball has a slighty different grip and is designed to swing a bit, whereas the "Baffler" is intended simply to go fast, flat and straight. It may be this is the type of ball that gave off-spinner "Flat" Jack Simmons his nickname, but I haven't seen any descriptions of his variations so it's hard to know.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;399065 said:
I haven't seen any off-spin variations that have exactly the same intention as a flipper, i.e. a purely back-spun ball, but it would seem my "baffler" is similar in its delivery to the Arm Ball. From what I've seen, the Arm Ball has a slighty different grip and is designed to swing a bit, whereas the "Baffler" is intended simply to go fast, flat and straight. It may be this is the type of ball that gave off-spinner "Flat" Jack Simmons his nickname, but I haven't seen any descriptions of his variations so it's hard to know.
Click to expand...
To answer my own question it looks a lot like my Baffler is a cricket version of a baseball pitcher's fastball - the grip and action seem very similar and the end result in both cases is a back-spinning ball which travels flatter. Obviously there's a massive difference in pace though!!!

Some of you might be interested to have a look at the different variations in baseball pitching, if only to stimulate the mind. There's plenty of "how to" videos on YouTube.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Yeah I think it's useful to look at aspects of baseball pitching Philpott mentions it in his book, I can't remember in what context exactly, but it might be in that you should explore baseball pitching just to give you ideas, I think he mentions the Knuckle Ball which is unusual as far as I can make out in that it swings and has the potential to change direction, so it starts out as a in-swinger say, but by the time it reaches the bat it's started going the other way (I think)? But this is due to the shape of the stitching on the ball and it pitched with no spin. I think as it goes through the air the stitching then comes up against resistance and then produces this un-even movement in the air? I've tried the knuckle ball and it's okay, but it doesn't do much with a cricket ball as far as I can make out, but others my have different experiences.

Interestingly info on the dynamics and physics of spinning balls is more readily found on baseball websites than cricket websites. There's also loads of useful info relating to the looking after your shoulder cuff and trainiing to strengthen your shoulder and core in relation to pitching which is relevant to bowling. So yeah baseball is useful to look at definitely.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

My understanding of a knuckleball is that the intention is to pitch it with absolutely no spin whatsoever so that the movement comes from the natural unpredictability of the turbulent wake behind it. I don't think it works so well in cricket because the seam is so simple - the seam on a baseball probably creates a more random turbulence so the knucleball works better, and baseballs are always replaced before they have a chance to get scuffed which may have some bearing. Also a straight arm action combined with the difficulty of bowling with zero spin means there's no way a cricket bowler can bowl a knuckleball at anything like the speeds they get in baseball, so the effect will be significantly smaller. I think someone did try to bowl a knuckleball in test cricket as a much-hyped mystery ball but got smacked round the park with it.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

someblokecalleddave;407035 said:
Yeah I think it's useful to look at aspects of baseball pitching Philpott mentions it in his book, .
Click to expand...

I love baseball.
Grimmett played baseball every winter, especially when he lived in Sydney, but he always recommended that bowlers not become pitchers. So he never actually did much pitching but knew how to throw a curve ball etc.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

I've always fancied the idea of it and always had the bats and balls but for the life of me could never get any of my mates to play it when I was a youth/young bloke. I've played it mucking about as an adult a few times and found that I'm not actually any good at the batting part of it. But, recently my younger son got a bat, ball and glove for his birthday and we had a couple of games and found that I was pretty good at it! I can only guess that's come about through playing cricket?
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

I was experimenting with my flipper the other day and I'm really struggling to get it to work at all. I was trying to bowl it over 10 yards or so but it just feels like the ball's slipping out of my hand. I don't think my hand's strong enough hold the ball in and still perform the click yet, while I can perform it when my arm's not moving.

It got me thinking about exactly how much force is required. I used a bit of my A Level physics and worked out that even with my quite slow action the ball experiences in excess of 4 Gs of acceleration. As such the ball effectively "weighs" 640 grams, compared to its actual weight of 160 grams. Maybe someone needs to produce a special heavy cricket ball for flipper training...

Thinking about it has made me realise that with the way the forces are acting it's probably better to learn the flipper with my fingernails facing towards the floor rather than the ceiling so that gravity is acting the right way to mimic the direction of force when I bowl. Does that make sense?
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;408186 said:
I was experimenting with my flipper the other day and I'm really struggling to get it to work at all. I was trying to bowl it over 10 yards or so but it just feels like the ball's slipping out of my hand. I don't think my hand's strong enough hold the ball in and still perform the click yet, while I can perform it when my arm's not moving.

It got me thinking about exactly how much force is required. I used a bit of my A Level physics and worked out that even with my quite slow action the ball experiences in excess of 4 Gs of acceleration. As such the ball effectively "weighs" 640 grams, compared to its actual weight of 160 grams. Maybe someone needs to produce a special heavy cricket ball for flipper training...

Thinking about it has made me realise that with the way the forces are acting it's probably better to learn the flipper with my fingernails facing towards the floor rather than the ceiling so that gravity is acting the right way. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

the flipper is definitely a tough one to bowl physically. to begin with i used to perch the ball on my finger tips and use my fingers to create the revs. if you palm the ball too much (e.g. using a leg spin grip to disguise it) then you ask too much of your forearms which are busy enough during your action anyway. you have to work up to it.

using a heavier ball might work. but at the same time it might put you at risk of injury. personally i started out using a tennis ball and a youth cricket ball and worked my way up. tennis balls are super easy to bowl a flipper with and will get you really snapping your fingers. once you know what is required to get massive backspin then its easier to apply to a full size cricket ball. thats what i found at least.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Spiderlounge;408186 said:
I was experimenting with my flipper the other day and I'm really struggling to get it to work at all. I was trying to bowl it over 10 yards or so but it just feels like the ball's slipping out of my hand. I don't think my hand's strong enough hold the ball in and still perform the click yet, while I can perform it when my arm's not moving.

It got me thinking about exactly how much force is required. I used a bit of my A Level physics and worked out that even with my quite slow action the ball experiences in excess of 4 Gs of acceleration. As such the ball effectively "weighs" 640 grams, compared to its actual weight of 160 grams. Maybe someone needs to produce a special heavy cricket ball for flipper training...

Thinking about it has made me realise that with the way the forces are acting it's probably better to learn the flipper with my fingernails facing towards the floor rather than the ceiling so that gravity is acting the right way. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

the flipper is definitely a tough one to bowl physically. to begin with i used to perch the ball on my finger tips and use my fingers to create the revs. if you palm the ball too much (e.g. using a leg spin grip to disguise it) then you ask too much of your forearms which are busy enough during your action anyway. you have to work up to it.

using a heavier ball might work. but at the same time it might put you at risk of injury. personally i started out using a tennis ball and a youth cricket ball and worked my way up. tennis balls are super easy to bowl a flipper with and will get you really snapping your fingers. once you know what is required to get massive backspin then its easier to apply to a full size cricket ball. thats what i found at least.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Yeah you're probably going to suffer from medial epicondilytis if your forearms are a bit wafty, I used to do pull ups in a door bar when I started out, not something I do as much these days, but the pull ups probably help with your forearms? The thing to do according to Grimmett is to use a smaller lighter ball or something like an apple and learn the click technique with something a bit lightweight working towards a cricket ball. Intermediate stage would be to use a kids cricket ball. But yeah - no pain - no gain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On2avoj5pUY

This is the sort of thing I'd have been doing on a regular basis and may have been why the Flipper came easy to me and why I'm able to put so much spin on the ball? If you ever see Warne with his sleeves rolled up, he's a chunky bloke with plenty of power in his forearms. Grimmet on the other hand was sign writer, and holding you arm steady using sign writing brushes with a mahl stick for hours as he worked would have helped develop good muscles and stamina.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

naturally strong forearms are definitely important. i work with hand tools quite a lot for work, and have to push things down without being able to get my bodyweight over them, so mine are fairly strong as well.

one way to test your flipper action without actually bowling it is to hold the ball at arms length away to your side, at about face level. then "flip" the ball across your body with maximum revs, and you should be able to comfortably get the ball to flip all the way across in to your other hand, the other side of your body, at about chest height. if you cant do that then youll stand little chance of bowling it properly, so you need to keep working on it between hands until you can. Terry Jenner does this in his video on the variations if you want to see what i mean.
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Do it all the time, with apples, oranges, boules, reels of sellotape, anything that is circular or will fit in your hand flick it or flip it all the time!!!! At work, at home every where!
 
Re: Tips to prepare for flipper/googly

Matt2010;409668 said:
Can anybody bowl the top-spinning flipper?
Click to expand...

I think flipper by definition has to be backspinning- topspin will make it bounce up and not shoot low. Whenever I try to bowl a flipper over 22 yards, my wrist moves and i end up bowling a topspinner -
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top