Video Analysis Software

[Liz Ward]

Re: Video Analysis Software

what is the difference between dedicated VA software, and simply editing your own videos and playing them back in regular video software (e.g. VLC media player)?

That is a difficult one for a post J, could probably just about cover it in a one day workshop .

Have a play with http://www.thezone.siliconcoach.com/testdrive_learn.htm. Look at 'Discuss' and 'Analyse' too.

However, it really does help to know what you are looking for before the annotations can help.

It would also be a good idea to have a library of 'best practice' too. I use the Quintic 'Mechanics', which actually also have stand alone video capture software included. I have used stills from the Batting Mechanics with Graeme Hick and Gary Palmer elsewhere on the forum. Although, Ian has some you can purchase here: Downloadable Cricket Clips - Mavericks Cricket Institute, however, I have not seen them.

for the coaches on here - what does it generally cost for video-assisted coaching sessions? there is a cricket centre just down the road from me (Dummer Cricket Centre) that offers coaching, as well as VA, but i think its quite pricey. i cant really justify it, but i might be tempted to try it out if they can show me the video instantly after ive bowled the delivery. because thats where my DIY setup is lacking.

It depends J... on location, facilities and knowledge.

You would be spending £50 per hour with somebody like me and, yes, you would have instant replay. After a few shots, or balls, we would analyse after each action. You would be shown what tweaks would need to be made to reduce injury and increase pace and accuracy. If it was a case of a mixed action, measuring the degrees of rotation and counter rotation would indicate whether any change was needed. Bear in mind, that there are other factors, not evident from VA, such as flexibility, muscle balance etc, all need to be taken into consideration. One size does not fit all in biomechanics; we are all different. You would get a full report from me, with exercises, stretches and any improvement necessary. You would then be expected to work on this by yourself unless YOU particularly wanted another session to assess where you are. This cost also includes unlimited online help from me.

I would, though, also like to know what the coaches would charge and what they offer.

 

[Boris]

Re: Video Analysis Software

I have only glanced over most of this thread, a few too many words for me to read right now

I find VA very helpful as a player. I find only find it most useful, though, if it is all out or not at all.

From where I used to play, the coach had a friend at the local TV crew. He would come down with a full HD camera with quite a good frame rate, it could be slowed down to almost the extent of being able to calculate the revs put on a ball, as the legspinners on this board have been having fun with of late.

This sort of equipment (at least something where you can make out a smile from 22 yards away) coupled with a coach that knows what he/she is doing is the only way it realy works.

I've seen friends get together and look at themselves bowling and all they do is come up with some novel things that are wrong, that even I know are wrong. One example was a C Grade player suddenly decided there and then he didn't like the look of himself bowling front on, so switched to side on in an instantaneous decision and ended up giving himself a side strain, all for 'looking attractive' while bowling.

Some coaches do this as well, though not that that extent. They class a good bowling action as something that looks like Michael Holding's, even though I know you can have something completely unorthodox and it can be just as safe and effective, and that base needs to be developed upon.

It is best used when the coach is unable to catch something through the naked eye, i.e. it needs to be put into slow motion, put into a freeze frame or zoomed in upon. I have had my off spin bowling analysed quite effectively (and my pace analysed on here as well, thanks ) and it was centred around the coach capturing a video from square of the wicket and showing me that my left knee should be pointing at the camera for the pivot to be of any use and impart any spin, and enabled me to actually see where things should be compared to where they were currently. He also went to the effort of pointing the camera at a spot of air where my hand released the ball and looking at my hand during point of release, and got me to correct my wrist position and I had fun by sending down lots of different varieties to see what was actually happening, as you can't see which way the seam is going to go by flicking the ball in your hands, it all changes when it's up there.

I think importance must also be put on what the player thinks of their bowling action. I know when I looked at it I said a few times "I didn't know I was doing that". I've heard from a couple of friends from other teams that their coaches have rejected what they thought and tried to construct them into something they weren't through the use of it.

Good in some people's hands, bad in other's.

 

[TonyM]

Re: Video Analysis Software

Boris, this post really worries me. To me VA is just another tool in the coaches box, the main benefits being the ability to slow any movement down, creating an historic record and the facility to show a particular element to the player.

What both you and Liz have referred to with coaches trying to turn players into 'model' bowlers is not something I recognise in coaches I know - yes, work on specific elements and suggest alterations to improve accuracy or speed but not changing a natural chest on bowler to a side on action or anything like that

As for players watching themselves, its always a difficult issue and I only show players a clip of themselves to highlight something specific not just a general 'heh have a look at what you look like' - imo its much better they see themselves in the first not the third person, perhaps its easier for me as I tend to work with younger players

 

[onemoreover]

Re: Video Analysis Software

I have been following this thread with some interest. Of particular note I am extremely pleased to be hearing the views of concern regarding using VA to alter player's natural movements. That is develop them into "model players", robots if you will. Liz hit it spot on when she was alluding to player's natural movement/style giving them their "flair" among other positive qualities. The question in my mind then is, if the cost of such technology and software becomes economically more viable at local club level and with an ever increasing contemporary population of tech savy members, will we begin to see an abuse of this type of coaching tool?

Are we at or getting near the point where VA should be a mandatory component of coaching courses, even if at a basic level, to ensure it is used viably and correctly?

Some great content to date and I suggest this thread has the potential to be a great primer for anyone considering entering into VA as a coaching tool.

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Video Analysis Software

...Are we at or getting near the point where VA should be a mandatory component of coaching courses, even if at a basic level, to ensure it is used viably and correctly?

That is a very interesting question onemoreover.

Technology is progressing, whether we like it or not. Our players are arriving into this World with a mouse in their hands and RSI on their 'things to deal with' list.

It will not be too long before they expect VA as a 'done deal' on their membership. Should we be ready?

I am not terribly au fait with the Australian coaching pathway but VA was a mandatory part of the ECB L2 Award over here in the UK before they changed down. However, I know coaches who have this Award and are still not too sure what they are looking at. Personally, I believe a good knowledge of biomechanics more important. For instance, I have met several coaches who are not clear on what constitutes a mixed action; as long as they can see success in outcome, process is brushed under the artificial grass mat.

I would love to hear what the other coaches have to say about this.

VA is becoming economincally viable. The main system I have been looking at would cost approximately £25 per person, up to 20 people, which would cover any cost of the coach/club instigating VA. However, they would have to outlay an initial £500, which is paid off by each player taking a piece of the action. If this is not possible, the company will give the coach/club the system, each other person wanting to take a piece of this action will need to pay £40 each, £4 of which goes back to the instigator.

I would also love to have other coaches opinion on this as well.

Also, assuming the coach knows what he is doing, I would love to know what the players would think about buying into this kind of system.

NB: If any coach is interested in investigating this system themselves, please PM me with your email address and I will pass on the information I have.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Video Analysis Software

My software has become obsolete and although my provider has offered me a great deal to update, I have been looking around to see what else is on offer. As you can imagine, technology has moved on quite a bit in the last few years and I am really impressed with what is on offer.

However, in my search, I have discovered that few coaches actually use VA. This really surprises me so I was wondering if I could get your opinions:

If you are a coach and use VA, what are your thoughts? What do you use it for and how helpful/important do you find it?

If you are a coach and do not use VA, why?

If you are a player what are your thoughts? If you have been analysed via video footage, did you find it helpful?

If you have not been analysed via video footage, what are your reasons/main factors for not taking up this opportunity?

I've some experience of Visual analysis and it's something that I'm interested in. Being a photography lecturer and working in a media dept I've got a little knowledge on the subject and some access to cameras and software to use visual analysis. I've also looked around at systems being sold by small concerns that work in this field.

From a personal point of view simple video footage that you're then able to play back in both real time and slow motion is very useful not only to enable you to look at the recordings and try and figure out strengths and weaknesses, but to distribute easily (Youtube) and enable more knowledgable people to analyse your actions and techniques and give a far more balanced and informed opinion. I've said several times on these forums that in my opinion one of the most useful video clips on the internet is the David Freedman clips YouTube - David Freedman legspin coaching video which are basically an advert for his video analysis service.

One of the things that I'm personally looking to be able to do is record my release - wrist and finger position and action through the release, but in order to do this at a professional standard you're looking at spending 10's of thousands of pounds on camera and digital processing equipment used in industrial applications - car crash slow mo, factory production analysis etc. There is the potential to hire the same equipment, but again even though it's a lot cheaper, it's far beyond the cost of the individual or even a club I would imagine?

Currently there's a camera available - the Casio Exilim EX FC100 which retails around 200 quid which is able to record at high speed and would make a good fist at recording my release, but it requires additional equipment and expertise in order to get results - Pro tripod, some knowledge of light and depth of field etc, certainly within my own range of skills and almost within my budget - but somewhat of a luxury item just in order to record my bowling release!

I do own another digital compact camera which is exceptionally easy to use - a Canon G9 which shoots reasonable quality footage that is easy to then edit using free software off the internet allowing you to slow down your subject and analyse and then glean comments from elsewhere - YouTube - someblokecalleddave1's Channel the downside is the size of the files and the time spent organising, analysing etc, so again quite good for personal use, but for a club problematic.

I've used the system in conjunction with my sons club video-ing the kids when they've batted in the nets. Initially I think the coaches thought it was a good idea and they could see that the quality was more than good enough for their use - looking at the techniques of the boys with a view to making suggestions. But then when you get down to the nitty gritty of making sense of the data for 6 boys batting for 10 minutes each, you're talking about DVD's with several gigabytes of info that have to be removed and burnt to a disc, labelled and filed. You might then spend another hour looking through the 6 boys 10 minutes of nets and write up when and where the flaws are in the 10 minute net. What do you do then - edit the clip and re-produce it in slo-mo and burn to a seperate disc for the boy to possibly look at in his own time? Or take a laptop to a training session and show the boy his clip on a laptop? The data analysis and conversion and distribution and viewing whilst with a coach is all time and as we all know time = money and with all the good will in the world, you can't really expect coaches to be this committed equally across a whole team of boys? That's all assuming that you've gained permissions to record the boys and keep the footage of them on the hard-drive or other media!?

The coach I worked with said that there might be some use in the longer term of being able to record the data of one boy removing the card from the camera and replace ready for the next recording/boy. Get the 1st boys card and download that to a PC with another coach so that he can look through the footage there and then while boy 2 is having his net recorded. Maybe if there was some kind of package that enabled this to be done and played back in slo-mo with very limited fuss, there might be some use within the context of a club net session? Although it would take more trainers to be involved and 1 or more would have to be conversant with the equipment being fully up to speed with it's functions and idiosyncrasies - again asking people to give up their time voluntarily. Needless to say something that was that efficient would come at a premium and would probably be beyond the budget of most clubs with questionable and not immediately tangible outcomes for those that were recorded. If the child protection issues were addressed and the recording was able to be burnt to a DVD and given to the kid to look at himself at his leisure there might be an increased learning potential?
In the end the footage was never seen by any of the boys recorded including my own kids. At age 8 and 10, they'd not be that interested in the finer points of their batting. It obviously has a use if you're fully committed to the cause of improving and looking to continually evaluate and improve on what you're doing, but then comes the cost and no doubt at club level most people would be put off of using VA if it was to cost them money.

Without knowing what your software actually did and at what speed and in what context it's used it's difficult to make a judgement on whether you should update it. It would be interesting to know how you've used it before?

PS - I didn't read any of the follow up posts, I'll do that now and probably find all these points have been covered/answered!!!!

One final bit from a parents perspective of boys aged 8 and 10. With regards paying for my lads to be filmed so that they could have some feedback on what they're doing, that at the minute is not something I'd do because of their own motivation levels. At the moment at their age their motivation is primarily extrinsic and any intrinsic motivation is driven by the idea of having fun rather than being a driven sports person with high levels of desire to be very good at what they do. As they get older there is a sense that gradually they're seeing that they are better than most at bowling and I'm hoping in time there'll be a point where the motivation changes from fun to one of 'Killer' where they will want to see every batsman they encounter traipsing back to the sheds with a big fat 0 next to his total. Then maybe when they've got that kind of motivation going on I might be interested in paying.

 

[Boris]

Re: Video Analysis Software

Boris, this post really worries me. To me VA is just another tool in the coaches box, the main benefits being the ability to slow any movement down, creating an historic record and the facility to show a particular element to the player.

What both you and Liz have referred to with coaches trying to turn players into 'model' bowlers is not something I recognise in coaches I know - yes, work on specific elements and suggest alterations to improve accuracy or speed but not changing a natural chest on bowler to a side on action or anything like that

As for players watching themselves, its always a difficult issue and I only show players a clip of themselves to highlight something specific not just a general 'heh have a look at what you look like' - imo its much better they see themselves in the first not the third person, perhaps its easier for me as I tend to work with younger players

Coaching in Australia is much different from what I have heard about England's. Australia has a lack of coaches unless you are in a capital city (at least in my state anyway), and even then lower grades don't have much access to them. At my old club we were very lucky to have a good coach, we were the only one in the region with one of his skill level, everybody else was stuck with the ones on the lowest certificate (I'm not sure what they are all called). I haven't chosen a new club for this season since I have moved regions recently, but from what I hear the coaches here are quite literally players who think they have more knowledge, or if your lucky, maybe someone with a certificate here and there.

Therefore having video analysis in Queesland isn't really an option till higher grades, unless you are lucky enough to find someone with the ability to do it like my old club was.

The point I was making, though, is the obvious one. People who don't know what they are talking about should not do it. I think it's even more dangerous as the player can visually see what they are suggesting they change, and if that change is wrong, they can more 'easily' change themselves into the wrong thing.

As for whether a player should see it or not, from a player's perspective I found it possibly the best thing for improving my bowling was actually watching myself bowl. I remember having my golf swing analysed with the help of video, and boy did it allow me to correct my swing. I saw how much of an uncoordinated dill I was, and it further drove me to fix it.

One thing I questioned about my former coach, however, was his tendency to find an international/national bowler that was similar in action to the players, and match them up with side by side videos. In one way it was good, gave you somebody to aspire to and they have already had the corrective analysis. On the other hand, though, I couldn't help but think it wasn't the best idea, forming yourself to look like another. What do you guys and girls think about it?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Video Analysis Software

Coaching in Australia is much different from what I have heard about England's. Australia has a lack of coaches unless you are in a capital city (at least in my state anyway), and even then lower grades don't have much access to them. At my old club we were very lucky to have a good coach, we were the only one in the region with one of his skill level, everybody else was stuck with the ones on the lowest certificate (I'm not sure what they are all called). I haven't chosen a new club for this season since I have moved regions recently, but from what I hear the coaches here are quite literally players who think they have more knowledge, or if your lucky, maybe someone with a certificate here and there.

Therefore having video analysis in Queesland isn't really an option till higher grades, unless you are lucky enough to find someone with the ability to do it like my old club was.

The point I was making, though, is the obvious one. People who don't know what they are talking about should not do it. I think it's even more dangerous as the player can visually see what they are suggesting they change, and if that change is wrong, they can more 'easily' change themselves into the wrong thing.

As for whether a player should see it or not, from a player's perspective I found it possibly the best thing for improving my bowling was actually watching myself bowl. I remember having my golf swing analysed with the help of video, and boy did it allow me to correct my swing. I saw how much of an uncoordinated dill I was, and it further drove me to fix it.

One thing I questioned about my former coach, however, was his tendency to find an international/national bowler that was similar in action to the players, and match them up with side by side videos. In one way it was good, gave you somebody to aspire to and they have already had the corrective analysis. On the other hand, though, I couldn't help but think it wasn't the best idea, forming yourself to look like another. What do you guys and girls think about it?

I think this is a good case for buying yourself or borrowing a half decent digital camera and filmimg yourself and up-loading it to youtube to get the opinions of people on-line like Liz. So you could be some kid that lives miles from the nearest city as in Australia and still have someone give you advice on changing some aspect of the way you bowl or bat.

 

[Boris]

Re: Video Analysis Software

I think this is a good case for buying yourself or borrowing a half decent digital camera and filmimg yourself and up-loading it to youtube to get the opinions of people on-line like Liz. So you could be some kid that lives miles from the nearest city as in Australia and still have someone give you advice on changing some aspect of the way you bowl or bat.

That's exactly right.

If you are way out in the bush somewhere though I doubt you could get fast enough internet to be able to upload videos to a degree. In my area we just got an upgrade to faster internet, it seems like it goes almost too quick for me... until I discovered that we have some of the slowest internet in the country, if not the developed world. Not that big a deal though, can still zoom around enough, may take 15 minutes or so to upload a 1 minute video.

Now just to spread the BigCricket word to some cricketers!

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Video Analysis Software

...One thing I questioned about my former coach, however, was his tendency to find an international/national bowler that was similar in action to the players, and match them up with side by side videos. In one way it was good, gave you somebody to aspire to and they have already had the corrective analysis. On the other hand, though, I couldn't help but think it wasn't the best idea, forming yourself to look like another. What do you guys and girls think about it?

Absolutely Boris! I cannot remember the number of times I have just sunk in my seat when I get emails saying, "... I have [so'n so]'s action", or "... I bowl just like [so'n so]".

Mainly because they don't... boy are they planets away... but also, quite often, you wouldn't want to play like [so'n so]. Not all first class cricketers have great technique . Poor technique works for some, due to their physical make up, but often not. How many first class players need time out due to non-acute/impact injuries?

However, I have used first class videos... basically the good practice ones are to get a point across; it is far better than me demonstrating because I can point out muscle activity as I go through an action step-by-step. For instance, I find it hard to point to my back muscles when I am batting... even in slow motion. Then there are the 'this is why you need to change' videos . Basically what a player was doing wrong in the run up to an injury.

You are right though, VA is a fantastic tool, but you really do need to know what you are doing; what you are aiming for and what goals you can help with.

 

[Boris]

Re: Video Analysis Software

Absolutely Boris! I cannot remember the number of times I have just sunk in my seat when I get emails saying, "... I have [so'n so]'s action", or "... I bowl just like [so'n so]".

Mainly because they don't... boy are they planets away... but also, quite often, you wouldn't want to play like [so'n so]. Not all first class cricketers have great technique . Poor technique works for some, due to their physical make up, but often not. How many first class players need time out due to non-acute/impact injuries?

However, I have used first class videos... basically the good practice ones are to get a point across; it is far better than me demonstrating because I can point out muscle activity as I go through an action step-by-step. For instance, I find it hard to point to my back muscles when I am batting... even in slow motion. Then there are the 'this is why you need to change' videos . Basically what a player was doing wrong in the run up to an injury.

You are right though, VA is a fantastic tool, but you really do need to know what you are doing; what you are aiming for and what goals you can help with.

I too find it annoying and wrong that people use other bowlers to describe their own action, but I don't mind people using it to explain something. For example someone saying that their bowling arm comes through at an angle a little bit lower than Mitchell Johnson, but somewhat higher than Lasith Malinga. I find that sort of description rather helpful over the internet.

Speaking of unorthodox actions... I remember a guy when I was playing U15s some years ago that wanted to bowl just like a famous bowler. No not Holding or McGrath.... Malinga. Ah what a bad choice it was on his part.

Anyway unnecessary tangent... sorry

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Video Analysis Software

...For example someone saying that their bowling arm comes through at an angle a little bit lower than Mitchell Johnson, but somewhat higher than Lasith Malinga. I find that sort of description rather helpful over the internet...

The problem is, they 'think' that is how they bowl. I have only made that mistake once [several years ago]. When I actually got to see the action, it was nothing like it. Fortunately, I did not do any harm.

These days, I need to see a video .

I get many emails sent to me. So far, I have not seen one that matches the owner's description of themselves! It is not just how they perceive their action but also how they perceive the first class player's action.

 

[onemoreover]

Re: Video Analysis Software

Liz this ...........

"So far, I have not seen one that matches the owner's description of themselves! It is not just how they perceive their action but also how they perceive the first class player's action."

Sounds somewhat like the phenomena of having our recorded voice played back to us. It is nothing like what we thought it was. So your comments maybe reveal that much of a players perception of themselves and even sometimes of other players around them can be distorted. If this is a sustainable position, could this at any time also bring into question the coaches perception of what they are seeing even though they may have years of observation and results to supplement their perceptions. Some coaches have little experience to provide supplement. Which then leads us to further contemplate the importance of VA in providing a "reality" for cross reference.

I hope that makes some sort of sense.

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Video Analysis Software

Absolutely onemoreover... I have stopped talking when I'm videoing. I think I sound quite normal but when played back, it sounds like a demented chipmunk . [Note to self: check one does not change into demented chipmunk whilst coaching!]

You are right with respect to the huge responsibility coaches using VA have. All the good coaches realise this but I am not sure if anything can be done about the others. I guess this all comes back to training. It is strange that somebody like me spends years proving we know what we are doing before we can qualify to be let loose to work with people, whereas coaches only get an afternoon's workshop.

I suppose this is a really good reason for new coaches to be able to discuss videos with their more experienced colleagues... and perhaps use VA as a coach mentoring tool as well.

However, it also comes down to aims. If coaches know their aims for using VA and keep them in mind, they cannot go too far wrong... as long as they stay within their remit .

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Video Analysis Software

Liz this ...........

"So far, I have not seen one that matches the owner's description of themselves! It is not just how they perceive their action but also how they perceive the first class player's action."

Sounds somewhat like the phenomena of having our recorded voice played back to us. It is nothing like what we thought it was. So your comments maybe reveal that much of a players perception of themselves and even sometimes of other players around them can be distorted. If this is a sustainable position, could this at any time also bring into question the coaches perception of what they are seeing even though they may have years of observation and results to supplement their perceptions. Some coaches have little experience to provide supplement. Which then leads us to further contemplate the importance of VA in providing a "reality" for cross reference.

I hope that makes some sort of sense.

I can relate to this totally - as far as I'm concerned my wrist and fingers are doing x to produce y, it feels like and I try as hard as I can to do x and all I get is z, there's definitely something going on in my bowling action, wrist and release that is totally different to what my brain thinks is happening!

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Video Analysis Software

I can relate to this totally - as far as I'm concerned my wrist and fingers are doing x to produce y, it feels like and I try as hard as I can to do x and all I get is z, there's definitely something going on in my bowling action, wrist and release that is totally different to what my brain thinks is happening!

absolutely. this is literally the first thing i discovered when i started to video my bowling. i was horrified when i saw the first videos. i pictured myself as Shane Warne, i literally thought my action was a carbon copy. it wasnt. not even close.

the sooner you embrace your natural action though, the sooner you can progress. i tried for a while to "correct" my action back to the conventional wisdom, but it didnt work. i literally cant get side-on, no matter how hard i try, so im resigned to the fact that im a front-on bowler, and i make the best of what ive got. now i tend to use video more for watching the ball out of the hand than anything else (because seam angle is more important than anything else for a spinner. it doesnt matter if youre accurate or consistent if the ball isnt spinning and turning!). then il let someone like Liz Ward watch the video and tell me where im going to get injured, and where i can generate more power. then i go back to work. im not a coach, or in any way qualified or knowledgeable in the field of bio-mechanics. so its pointless for me to try and alter things from an injury or power perspective. id just be guessing. you hear commentators and ex-pros talking about how your action needs to be like this or that, but how often are they completely wrong anyway? leave it to the experts

i need to get a new video, because i havent seen myself in a while now. i think my last videos were taken in March!! ive finally got my action fully front-on i think (id bet everything i own on it not being anywhere near front-on when i actually see it on video!!!!), and im getting up onto my toes at the point of release which is relieving the strain on my lower leg (again, im probably not on my toes either), so i need to see how it compares to before.

 

[onemoreover]

Re: Video Analysis Software

Absolutely onemoreover... I have stopped talking when I'm videoing. I think I sound quite normal but when played back, it sounds like a demented chipmunk . [Note to self: check one does not change into demented chipmunk whilst coaching!]

Now see Liz, this proves the point. Demented Chipmunk? This ......................

................was definitely not the perception I had of you.

 

[onemoreover]

Re: Video Analysis Software

--------------
From Jim2109...............

"absolutely. this is literally the first thing i discovered when i started to video my bowling. i was horrified when i saw the first videos. i pictured myself as Shane Warne, i literally thought my action was a carbon copy. it wasnt. not even close."

and SomeBlokeCalledDave.............

"there's definitely something going on in my bowling action, wrist and release that is totally different to what my brain thinks is happening!"
----------------
Great feedback in the affirmative. Maybe this is actually a good thing since it probably ensures our own particular uniqueness in the way we execute tasks is sustained. A mechanism for ensuring you remain you instead of allow you to try and become someone else or something you aren't when executing sporting tasks. Maybe that relates further to Liz's earlier post regarding personal "flair" and people who would seek to dull or nullify that flair in the interest of conformance to a particular coaching outcome bias.

I better start being careful here. I think I am making statement I'm not sure I even understand.

 

[TonyM]

Re: Video Analysis Software

Onemoreover, isn't perception a wonderful thing I was just looking at the comments from players and thinking 'this really backs up my view that letting players see their actions without a specific focus is a dangerous thing'. Jim's comment that "i tried for a while to "correct" my action back to the conventional wisdom, but it didnt work" is the big fear from players using VA on their own

You noted earlier about a coach's view when using VA having the potential to be distorted in the same way as a players, all I would say in response is that coaches should be used to viewing and making recommendations rather than a player who is more used to 'feeling' their action irrespective of how it looks from the outside

 

[onemoreover]

Re: Video Analysis Software

Onemoreover, isn't perception a wonderful thing I was just looking at the comments from players and thinking 'this really backs up my view that letting players see their actions without a specific focus is a dangerous thing'. Jim's comment that "i tried for a while to "correct" my action back to the conventional wisdom, but it didnt work" is the big fear from players using VA on their own

You noted earlier about a coach's view when using VA having the potential to be distorted in the same way as a players, all I would say in response is that coaches should be used to viewing and making recommendations rather than a player who is more used to 'feeling' their action irrespective of how it looks from the outside

It surely is Tony! Of course I agree 100% with your remarks concerning coaches perceptions, that is exactly what one should expect. Much of my commentary here comes from an outside looking in perspective. I am far from any expert myself.
My coaching experience is limited and has been restricted to junior ranks at local club level. That of course will not stop me trying to throw in a primer to further the discussion since I have had a venture into VA use and much of my experience and opinion of it is being mirrored in this thread.