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someblokecalleddave said:
It's kind of like the use of a whip and incorporates the analogy of you can't shoot a canon ball off of a canoe in a way. You have to start with a stable and sound base in order that the energy is transferred using all the levers in the body (Whip example), if the action of whipping is smooth surely the end result at the end of it is the whip crack. If that action was thwarted in some way towards the end, the whip crack wouldn't be so dynamic?
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This is something of a diversion, but is it not the case that abrupt stops may be the cause of the 'whip' effect? e.g. a fast bowler doesn't keep running through as fast as possible, he anchors the front leg and stops running as near to dead as possible, this braking impulse sending the body and arm whipping over. Loughborough research

Likewise, many bowlers - I think most - stop their leading arm from swinging when front foot contact is made, rather than swinging it back behind the body. It's not in the coaching books but I think this contributes to the pace of the delivery (conservation of angular momentum).

This is my speculation, but I wonder if there isn't some subtle braking of the arm that could occur when bowling a topspinner or topspun leg break which sends the wrist flying over for more spin.
 
Spin Lizard said:
does twirlymen not like Murali's action?


oh yeah and Tom, something I'm in the habit of doing when just bowling at a set of stumps is putting a pad down as a 'batsman' (instead of a coin/handkerchief/whatever on the 'spot'). Dunno if you would find that helpful or not...
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Thanks Spin Lizard, will give that a go! :)
 
Read pages 302 - 307, they'll either make you rage more or you'll see the perspective that Rajan is coming from...

Just looked at your write up... yeah you raged more!!! That aside, yeah go back to it at some point, it's good read by my humble reckoning.
 
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Chino#21 said:

Here's a very interesting video of Muttiah Muralitharan. I didn't know he had a top spinner as well, and it's a beauty! The seam is perfectly perpendicular with lots of dip. You'll see at the beginning of the video that he's flicking the ball in his hand almost like the flick action for the flipper, and a few pages back there was a video of him supposedly bowling a flipper. That's quite ironic.
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Well if you've got an offbreak and you've got a doosra, you've basically got a toppie by definition
 
Chino#21 said:
Yes, but he changes his grip when he bowls it so that the seam isn't scrambled. It's the only ball I've ever seen him bowl that doesn't have a scrambled seam.

I don't think that there are many spinners that use the top spinner. There are loads of leg spinners that have a leg break and a googly but lack a normal toppie, off spinners like Ajmal that don't have all three etc.
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I think that was just for demonstration purposes. I have never seen or heard of him bowling that in a game, it would be far too easy to pick.
 
Chino#21 said:

Another interesting video of Murali. Here you can see past 7:00 his two off breaks, one with the seam scrambled and the other upright. It seems like his off break with an upright seam drifts a lot more than his scrambled seam off break which means that drift for a leg spinner is most likely easier to achieve when bowling with a perfectly upright seam.
It almost looks like his first off break (6:40) drifts into the stumps. The one after that straightens through the air, might be coincidental but I think it proves that upright seam deliveries do drift more.
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Awesome link mate, I watched the whole thing. Yeah I'm pretty sure you are right, but I'm not entirely sure why. I watched a video a while ago (that was posted on here) about aerodynamics and the separation of air as it leaves the ball. When the seam is scrambled, the seam will basically tear through the air meaning there isn't any smooth flow over the surface of the ball, creating much more drag and drop. Whereas with the seam up, you will have some smooth flow over the ball and some scrambled air, creating drift. A couple of years of aeronautical engineering at uni seem to have paid off haha
 
Chino#21 said:

Here's a very interesting video of Muttiah Muralitharan. I didn't know he had a top spinner as well, and it's a beauty! The seam is perfectly perpendicular with lots of dip. You'll see at the beginning of the video that he's flicking the ball in his hand almost like the flick action for the flipper, and a few pages back there was a video of him supposedly bowling a flipper. That's quite ironic.
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Yeah he's flicking it like the Flipper there at the start.
 
Chino#21 said:
Yeah for a while in the off season I couldn't get the seam upright and didn't get as much drift because of this. Then I worked on my release and got it working perfectly again, leading to more drift. Now I'm noticing a lot of flying saucer spin on my leg break, which leads to even more drift. I suppose as long as you get drift you shouldn't worry too much about changing anything.

I don't know if I'm the only one who sees this in club cricket, but there are many leg spinners that drift the ball in the wrong direction! I know that the ball actually does drift in the direction of the spin first and then the opposite, so maybe they get enough revs for the drift away but not enough for it to force the ball back in?
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I never drift it away always in?
 
Chino#21 said:
If you bowl leg breaks the ball does drift with the spin initially but it's not noticeable. Only with small, light balls like a ping pong ball you'll be able to see a leg break drift away and then back in.
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Magnus effect operates in one direction. There is a thing called reverse magnus effect, but again this goes in one direction only.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
I like the looks of this Sohdi bloke, not heard of him before, lets hope we get to see a lot more of him in the NZ side over the coming years.
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Ish is playing in the Northern Districts side that is in the T20 Champions Trophy, if they're screening those games in England you'll see him bowl (with Vettori out Ish is always a ND first pick). He has all the tricks needed (round the loop and a straighter one).

His problem is control and he's been pipped by an offie (Mark Craig) because of that but he has time on his side and the very small pool of NZ spinners to compete against. Helps that he can bat and is a decent fielder as well.
 
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