Watson - Love him or hate him?

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Watson - Love him or hate him?

Seeing Watson start walking off after a long deliberation by the third umpire made me the happiest of the ~55k people at the 'G today. If I had to sit there in person and watch that odious man score his maiden century it would have brought me to tears.
 
Re: Pakistan in Australia

I've got to be honest, I really don't get the Watson hatred. Here's a bloke who has overcome an horrific run with injury, performed for Australia with both bat and ball, shows great passion and commitment on the field, and is one of the more humble players off it (out-of-context "baiting" quotes aside). Yes, his celebrations are occasionally over the top, he'd be the first to admit that, but given what he has had to overcome to get out there, you'd expect him to get as much out of every success as he can, because you never know if he might break down again.

I don't know, he just seems like a genuine battler to me, and I have a lot of respect for him and his ability.
 
Re: Pakistan in Australia

I have less respect for him than Brett Lee who used to be just as bad in his early days, he improved slightly but I cant see Watson ever changing

90% of Australians cheered when Watson was given out :D
 
Re: Pakistan in Australia

BabyBlues;382211 said:
I've got to be honest, I really don't get the Watson hatred. Here's a bloke who has overcome an horrific run with injury, performed for Australia with both bat and ball, shows great passion and commitment on the field, and is one of the more humble players off it (out-of-context "baiting" quotes aside). Yes, his celebrations are occasionally over the top, he'd be the first to admit that, but given what he has had to overcome to get out there, you'd expect him to get as much out of every success as he can, because you never know if he might break down again.

I don't know, he just seems like a genuine battler to me, and I have a lot of respect for him and his ability.
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I tend to agree, not a hater but not a lover.
 
Re: Pakistan in Australia

Ljp86;382179 said:
The day will be remembered though for the awful run-out between Katich and Watson with the latter once again falling short of 100.
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Both, in fact.

A bit of karma with Watson, I feel. Funny how he we repeatedly see this tragic, folorn figure each time he is dismissed. (Antoher lesson in sportsmanship: walk promptly from the ground instead of dawdling, almost staggering in order to absorb as much public sympathy as you can. Mate, you're not the only one who hates going out.)

Baby Blues, I ask you if at that time Mohammed Asif ran up to dear Shane and mocked him in a display of "raw emotion", would you consider it extremely poor form? You would probably form the opinion that Asif was a complete jerk, would you not?

And spare me the horrific run with injury. The bloke is/was physically suseceptible, just as he is mentally. In fact, there's every chance others might have perservered through one or two of the strains he encountered.

Until recently, he has NOT performed with bat & ball, so you can understand judgements being formed based on what they could see. Yes, I admire the guy for his talent, that is all. I doubt humility is a key quality of his, though only those close to him could form that opinion. Most of the passion he exhibits appears to be for himself.

That's my take anyway.
 
Re: Pakistan in Australia

Young Mr. Watson needs to drop the "poor ************ me" attitude and get a bit of backbone and maturity.
Then, and only then, will he stop being derided overseas and at home for being the pin up favourite of nancy boys worldwide.
I would love to see him face the West Indies of old or Pakistan circa Waquar, Imran etc....they would tear him apart mentally and physically on and off the pitch.
You're soft Shane, very bloody soft.
 
Re: Pakistan in Australia

bushie;382222 said:
Young Mr. Watson needs to drop the "poor ************ me" attitude and get a bit of backbone and maturity.
Then, and only then, will he stop being derided overseas and at home for being the pin up favourite of nancy boys worldwide.
I would love to see him face the West Indies of old or Pakistan circa Waquar, Imran etc....they would tear him apart mentally and physically on and off the pitch.
You're soft Shane, very bloody soft.
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I don't know about him being soft, I find its more his arrogance, lack of respect and attitude towards playing cricket. His celebration in Perth was childish and over the top yet he defended himself and dragged Gayles name through mud for no reason.

Then he acted disgraceful again yesterday. Yes I know you can be disappointed with a mix up like that but the swearing, the terrible body language etc is not something I want the young generation of Australian cricketers to see.

I don't it will imrpove and the quicker he is gone from the team the better
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

Well I don't think he'll be gone from the team any time soon. He is batting forcefully enough and his body appears to be coping surprisingly well.

He needs to get a bit of perspective and think about what he goes through when given out. Last thing he would want is the carry-on from bowlers. Yet when he gets a wicket, who bloody cares about the bastsman!?!

Hussey out! Or is he?
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

Although I have spoken ill of Hussey in the past, I will grant him one thing over Watson - at least he strides off the field when he is out, and doesn't crawl along, begging for sympathy.
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

Hate times infinity, heard wisden just announced he finished first in the top five gayest wicket celebrations ever. :D
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

Watson needs to mature up and quick as far as I'm concerned. I've noticed that since the old greats (McGrath Gilchrist etc) have retired, the maturity of the Australian team as a whole has dropped.

No one can deny that as team, they are a damn strong team, however in my opinion, to be a great team, they need to act with maturity and to stop seeking sympathy when things don't got their way. As Sober Symonds said, walk promptly from the pitch, and to stop milking the situation.

One other event that I am reminded of concerning this, is the game involving Australia (I forget the team and players involved, but I remember the incident) last summer, where an Australian bowler hit the opposing batsmen in the hip with a quick delivery, he stumbled back and broke his own stumps. Seeing the Australian team acting like school-boys over the wicket while the other bloke was on the ground just meters away (obviously injured), made me feel disgust towards the immaturity of the Australian team!

Thats my 2c worth anyway...
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

When you have a captain who has been reknowned for his petulance in the past it makes sense that certain players will think similar behaviour is the norm.
Is there a I love Ponting as a cricketer but hate his captaincy thread?
I feel the need to tee-off:D
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

Fell in love with Watson during the Ashes. He was opening the batting and was it numerous times by Flintoff (and Harmison as well I think) and he didn't flinch once. The worst thing Watson ever did was get injured before the start of the first series after Michael Clarke was dropped. Had he stayed fit that **** Clarke would have had to earn his spot rather than being an automatic inclusion at 5 or 6 in one of the most powerful sides in history.

He is a passionate guy who is playing as if every test is his last, remember that just 12 months ago it looked as though international cricket was going to be denied to him by his body. The run out was unfortunate but you can understand his desperation. I don't think Katich would hold too much against him for it. The dismissal of Gayle was over the top, at least Gaye is a gun. Why didn't Brett Lee cop it for chainsawing after the dismissal of the number 10?

Most importantly he has become one of the best cricketers in the country. His bowling has improved to the point where he is capable of troubling test batsmen (check out the swing he is getting today, and at the WACA). His poisiton as opener is not as assured as stats indicate. Yesterday was the first true test (both Asif and Ameer bowled every well) as the Windies attack lacked depth beyond Roach and to a lesser extent Tonge.
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

Just did some stats work on him.

Overall batting average of 38.08 (up to the point when he was 62* against Pakistan, will edit later).

Bowling, overall he averages 34.26 with an economy rate of 3.14 and a strike rate of 65.4.

Since his inclusion in the ashes however, he truly does demand good all rounder status:

659 runs @ 59.09. An excellent record opening the batting.

Bowling, he has an average of 32.222 at a strike rate of 59 and an economy rate of 3.25.

Don't hate him nor like his personality, but he demands respect as a player at the moment IMO.
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

Let it be said that half the reason for my dislike is that I was unconvinced of his abilities as a cricketer, being given opportunities every time he was fit - only to let everyone down with yet another ailment. It can be argued whether he was desperately unlucky, not doing the right things to harden himself physically for the challenges of Test cricket, or just being a pea heart.

During and following the Ashes, I have seen he is a very talented batsman, and take nothing away from his batting skills. Especially when he plays aggressively, he plays all the shots well, and hits them very hard. His bowling too has improved from being pedestrian straight up & down, to having enough variety and movement to cause problems rather than provide relief for opposition batsman (as Bruno pointed out).

But, I still cannot stand him. His over-celebration of success (even aside from last week's disgrace), "poor me" act when things go bad, chest-out strut vs slumped-shoulder dawdle", s###-eating grin, try-hard "uncoolness", changing states every time he starts going well, even down to his "Wayne from the suburbs" tipped hair. His body language tells it all, and he clearly has no control.

Plus, I believe he is mentally fragile. It just doesn't get tested like our players were in the past when there were great teams around, and big battles to fight.

He is a good cricketer. Just a complete prat.
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

Sober Symonds;382333 said:
Let it be said that half the reason for my dislike is that I was unconvinced of his abilities as a cricketer, being given opportunities every time he was fit - only to let everyone down with yet another ailment. It can be argued whether he was desperately unlucky, not doing the right things to harden himself physically for the challenges of Test cricket, or just being a pea heart.

During and following the Ashes, I have seen he is a very talented batsman, and take nothing away from his batting skills. Especially when he plays aggressively, he plays all the shots well, and hits them very hard. His bowling too has improved from being pedestrian straight up & down, to having enough variety and movement to cause problems rather than provide relief for opposition batsman (as Bruno pointed out).

But, I still cannot stand him. His over-celebration of success (even aside from last week's disgrace), "poor me" act when things go bad, chest-out strut vs slumped-shoulder dawdle", s###-eating grin, try-hard "uncoolness", changing states every time he starts going well, even down to his "Wayne from the suburbs" tipped hair. His body language tells it all, and he clearly has no control.

Plus, I believe he is mentally fragile. It just doesn't get tested like our players were in the past when there were great teams around, and big battles to fight.

He is a good cricketer. Just a complete prat.
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I agree with your closing statements and all statements beside this one. He has been one to top score in innings where everyone has crumbled and has shown in ODI and T20's that he is a go-to man, and can step up when need be.
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

Whos_asking99;382232 said:
One other event that I am reminded of concerning this, is the game involving Australia (I forget the team and players involved, but I remember the incident) last summer, where an Australian bowler hit the opposing batsmen in the hip with a quick delivery, he stumbled back and broke his own stumps. Seeing the Australian team acting like school-boys over the wicket while the other bloke was on the ground just meters away (obviously injured), made me feel disgust towards the immaturity of the Australian team!
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That was Shaun Tait bowling to A.B. De Villiers, hit him on the hip and he tumbled into his wicket, would have gone off injured anyway. The Aussies celebrated at first but Hussey and Warner were both straight over to him, helping him. Then the team settled down and just stood around, as to not celebrate overly to his injury. I'd say the opposite happened really.

Another example is in the Windies, Lee bowled a bouncer at 140 km/h and hit if I remember correctly, Bravo in the back of the head, knocking him out. Lee and Ponting were the first ones to him and made sure he was lying comfortably on the ground and his helmet came straight off. Then Hussey was calling straight to the side for first aid. The Australian's were helping him so much that the other batsman couldn't get a hand in.

That leads me to another thing. People relate Lee and Watson like they are the same. I hated Lee in his early days too for his chainsaw and that. But the difference was he was giving himself a signature as a very fast bowler with an attitude for other batsman to be scared of him. But he didn't target the one he just got out. I cannot recall him glaring at a batsman or saying anything to him. When he chainsawed or did a huge jump he was looking into the distance or to someone on the field. He was a show pony, not a bad sport.

I'm saying this because it puts into perspective the gamesmanship model that Watson is presenting. He is not a sportsman. That would denote that he puts moral victories over actual ones. Lee helps a batsman when he is down I remember him charging straight at Flintoff when he hit him a couple of Ashes ago like he was going to tackle him, but only to give him a hand up and a little laugh with him, Watson stands around and walks back to his mark, like he has done twice to my memory in a Shield match, one time after hitting a bloke on the jaw and breaking it.

Gamesmen have a place in games like League, Soccer and AFL, where they try their absolute best to get what they want when they want. But you don't see cricketers feigning injuries just to get a penalty. Cricketers are sportsmen, and sportsmen only. They follow the one and only rule of cricket, to play in the spirit of the game. Challenges and good competition is in the spirit of the game, mockery and stupidity isn't.

I like Watson for what it's worth. He's a big Queenslander with a big bat and biceps and a huge heart. It's just unfortunate has put his heart to uses where he shouldn't use it. IMO it's a good thing he has moved to NSW to stop him being related to us northerners anymore.

I will forever be appreciative of his skill. People don't notice how good a player he is because they have formed opinions from his past international experiences, which came from when he was whipped into the side after an injury and had a few months of not playing and no form to work from. Don't judge him from that time, judge him from now. I believe he has always been a better bowler than batsman as well, and when he is bowling at his best I think he is worthy of an Australian spot on his own.
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

breeno;382335 said:
I agree with your closing statements and all statements beside this one. He has been one to top score in innings where everyone has crumbled and has shown in ODI and T20's that he is a go-to man, and can step up when need be.
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Happy to be proven wrong, and I'm reasonably sure he will overcome it. At the moment though, he is at risk of being exposed in this area.

Apart from his overt body language and inablitly to control his emotions, there's the timing of when he is going out. I don't believe necessarily that he gets nervous in the 40's or 90's - as scores might suggest. It's more that he gets ahead of himself, as evidenced by his early dismissals after cruising the day before. It is a sign of immaturity, that he hasn't ripened mentally enough to deal with the little things that need to be done in order to achieve what is so dear to him.

He just wants to get there (and celebrate without restraint!), and loses sight of some fundamentals in the process.

Bowling-wise, that recent ODI where Harbhajan and Kumar took to him in the penultimate over was a real concern. Harb.hit a six & four off Siddle to keep India in the game, and Watson had the 49th over. He proceeded to bowl wide full tosses and got smacked mercilessly for 20 to take the home side to the brink of an incredible victory. Watson was defeated by the 3rd ball, and it was written over his face he wanted to give the ball to someone else to bowl. He was overcome by it all, and lost his composure.
 
Re: Watson - Love him or hate him?

Sober Symonds;382343 said:
Happy to be proven wrong, and I'm reasonably sure he will overcome it. At the moment though, he is at risk of being exposed in this area.

Apart from his overt body language and inablitly to control his emotions, there's the timing of when he is going out. I don't believe necessarily that he gets nervous in the 40's or 90's - as scores might suggest. It's more that he gets ahead of himself, as evidenced by his early dismissals after cruising the day before. It is a sign of immaturity, that he hasn't ripened mentally enough to deal with the little things that need to be done in order to achieve what is so dear to him.

He just wants to get there (and celebrate without restraint!), and loses sight of some fundamentals in the process.

Bowling-wise, that recent ODI where Harbhajan and Kumar took to him in the penultimate over was a real concern. Harb.hit a six & four off Siddle to keep India in the game, and Watson had the 49th over. He proceeded to bowl wide full tosses and got smacked mercilessly for 20 to take the home side to the brink of an incredible victory. Watson was defeated by the 3rd ball, and it was written over his face he wanted to give the ball to someone else to bowl. He was overcome by it all, and lost his composure.
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I was about to mention that match as the one where I've seen him not step up, but his man of the series shows he can step up. IIRC Warne said when he captained him in the IPL, that he gave him a lot of responsibility and that's when he flourished, obviously he won't step up every single time, but he has been doing it recently better than some of the players in the side.
 
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