West Indies in Australia
- Thread starter Ljp86
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Caesar
Member
Re: West Indies in Australia
I'm afraid the next generation will grow up seeing how successful you can be playing like Warner, and we'll end up with a side that plays like Pakistan.
Precisely because he's so successful playing despite such awful technique. The guy can't bat defensively to save his life, but he can flog the hell out of the ball in any direction which is exactly what's needed for T20.breeno;389781 said:
I'm afraid the next generation will grow up seeing how successful you can be playing like Warner, and we'll end up with a side that plays like Pakistan.
eddiesmith
Active Member
Re: West Indies in Australia
Maybe you need to make sure in future all people in the household you live in are cricket fans
Ah so that explains your earlier post about Gayle about 15 minutes after he was dismissedBoris;389772 said:I hate sharing a house with non-cricket lovers... means the TV is stolen when you least want it to
Then with the delayed coverage up here you go onto the internet and unsuspectingly get the end result after expecting another hours worth of play.
Ausrtalia should have gotten 250 with the way they were going. Warner is a superstar.
Maybe you need to make sure in future all people in the household you live in are cricket fans
Kram81
Well-Known Member
Re: West Indies in Australia
Brad Hardie just ruined the **** ing game for us by screaming out the result on 6pr as I walked out to grab some tea in the 3rd over.. At least Langdon has half a brain and says if you don't want to listen now.(flatmate had the radio on out the front yard)
Brad Hardie just ruined the **** ing game for us by screaming out the result on 6pr as I walked out to grab some tea in the 3rd over.. At least Langdon has half a brain and says if you don't want to listen now.(flatmate had the radio on out the front yard)
Re: West Indies in Australia
After having me as a house mate they are all thinking of moving into houses completely cricket lover free
eddiesmith;389789 said:Ah so that explains your earlier post about Gayle about 15 minutes after he was dismissed
Maybe you need to make sure in future all people in the household you live in are cricket fans
After having me as a house mate they are all thinking of moving into houses completely cricket lover free
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: West Indies in Australia
Agree 100%, who remembers Pakistan trying to chase that total at the SCG in the 2nd test like an ODI game.
Caesar;389785 said:
Agree 100%, who remembers Pakistan trying to chase that total at the SCG in the 2nd test like an ODI game.
Re: West Indies in Australia
I don't think Warner played many slog type shots tonight. That first over where he scored 22 were all proper cricket shots, most of his big hits tonight were simply putting away the bad ball.
Doubt it. Cricket Australia would never let something like that happen. Warner is an excellent T20 player but struggles in the longer form of the game, I think we'll find that with the three different types of cricket we'll see specialists for each form so the team will change significantly between Tests, ODI's and T20 matches.
Caesar;389785 said:
I don't think Warner played many slog type shots tonight. That first over where he scored 22 were all proper cricket shots, most of his big hits tonight were simply putting away the bad ball.
Caesar said:
Doubt it. Cricket Australia would never let something like that happen. Warner is an excellent T20 player but struggles in the longer form of the game, I think we'll find that with the three different types of cricket we'll see specialists for each form so the team will change significantly between Tests, ODI's and T20 matches.
Caesar
Member
Re: West Indies in Australia
I'm not saying Warner played poor shots, just that his range is extremely limited.Ljp86;389803 said:
But as soon as you start developing specialist T20 bats it bleeds the talent pool available for the longer formats. And the more popular the shorter forms get, the less inclined talented batsmen will be to develop a holistic game. Who's going to spend the time working their way up through the ranks when they can do a Warner, perfect a few good shots at grade level and then end up fast-tracking into the national team?Ljp86;389803 said:
breeno
Active Member
Re: West Indies in Australia
I don't mean to sound overly judgemental but how do you know this? All we see is the end result. Many hours of hard work have been put in, and wil continue to be put in by Warner to get better. Of these hours, I think he would practise batting defensively, all we see is the end result of him playing in the T20 and being asked to do what he does best, crowd pleasing.
With the way he's been going he'd have is eye on the ODI team, which means he would definitely be practising on a more wholesome technique.
Caesar;389785 said:
I don't mean to sound overly judgemental but how do you know this? All we see is the end result. Many hours of hard work have been put in, and wil continue to be put in by Warner to get better. Of these hours, I think he would practise batting defensively, all we see is the end result of him playing in the T20 and being asked to do what he does best, crowd pleasing.
With the way he's been going he'd have is eye on the ODI team, which means he would definitely be practising on a more wholesome technique.
Caesar
Member
Re: West Indies in Australia
Granted I haven't seen him play the long format for a while, but he was never that crash hot when he turned out for NSW's Second XI. I can only assume that that's still the case otherwise with scoring strokes like his he surely would have been given more opportunities at first class level.
Granted I haven't seen him play the long format for a while, but he was never that crash hot when he turned out for NSW's Second XI. I can only assume that that's still the case otherwise with scoring strokes like his he surely would have been given more opportunities at first class level.
thommy_rissole
Member
Re: West Indies in Australia
I'm with you Breeno, sorry Caesar. I think David Warner is amazing. I didn't get a chance to watch his innings last night but did just watch it on youtube then. It was as pure as hitting as you're ever going to witness. People who don't watch cricket now know who David Warner is. It's introducing more people to cricket which is a good thing.
He was fast-tracked into the National T20 team on the back of performances in the Big Bash, he was then fast-tracked into the ODI team on the back of his T20I performances, you make it sound as though he was plucked from obscurity in NSWCA Grade Cricket.
I also did some reading on what Michael Clarke had to say in his post match interview
Warner obviously is not a one-hit wonder and he trains hard to perfect his art, his art being hit the ball over the fence.
I think we should embrace the fact that some batsman are going to be suited to T20, whilst others are going to be suited to 4 day cricket.
Caesar;389767 said:
breeno;389781 said:
Caesar;389785 said:
Caesar;389813 said:
I'm with you Breeno, sorry Caesar. I think David Warner is amazing. I didn't get a chance to watch his innings last night but did just watch it on youtube then. It was as pure as hitting as you're ever going to witness. People who don't watch cricket now know who David Warner is. It's introducing more people to cricket which is a good thing.
He was fast-tracked into the National T20 team on the back of performances in the Big Bash, he was then fast-tracked into the ODI team on the back of his T20I performances, you make it sound as though he was plucked from obscurity in NSWCA Grade Cricket.
I also did some reading on what Michael Clarke had to say in his post match interview
Warner obviously is not a one-hit wonder and he trains hard to perfect his art, his art being hit the ball over the fence.
I think we should embrace the fact that some batsman are going to be suited to T20, whilst others are going to be suited to 4 day cricket.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: West Indies in Australia
I don't think anyone is arguing that different batsmen have different ability when it comes to different formats of the game. The issue many have is the potential for T20 to erode a player's technique.
Dave Warner is not even in the first class NSW team, this suggests he doesn't yet have the ability to play at a consistent level of performance over a prolonged period of time. He probably doesn't know how to build an innings over time, how to bunker down and defend good bowling, all he knows is belting 4's and 6's. He is very good at it, and he can earn a lot of money doing it.
If we have a heap of young players wanting to make it in T20, and we will because their are so many spots and teams to play for and a heap of money, then we are going to have a glut of cricketers who don't know how to build an innings and how to play longer format of the game.
We see it with Pakistan at the moment, they have all the talent in the world yet their players do not have the mental application to succeed in test cricket. Not just with the bat, but in the field and with the ball. IMO, that is directly linked to T20 cricket.
If you can play first class cricket for our state then chance's are you have a pretty good technique already and over time and constant compeition this technique will be further refined. In addition to this you will learn the mental aspects about cricket and how important that is, T20 doesn't teach players that side of the game.
I don't think anyone is arguing that different batsmen have different ability when it comes to different formats of the game. The issue many have is the potential for T20 to erode a player's technique.
Dave Warner is not even in the first class NSW team, this suggests he doesn't yet have the ability to play at a consistent level of performance over a prolonged period of time. He probably doesn't know how to build an innings over time, how to bunker down and defend good bowling, all he knows is belting 4's and 6's. He is very good at it, and he can earn a lot of money doing it.
If we have a heap of young players wanting to make it in T20, and we will because their are so many spots and teams to play for and a heap of money, then we are going to have a glut of cricketers who don't know how to build an innings and how to play longer format of the game.
We see it with Pakistan at the moment, they have all the talent in the world yet their players do not have the mental application to succeed in test cricket. Not just with the bat, but in the field and with the ball. IMO, that is directly linked to T20 cricket.
If you can play first class cricket for our state then chance's are you have a pretty good technique already and over time and constant compeition this technique will be further refined. In addition to this you will learn the mental aspects about cricket and how important that is, T20 doesn't teach players that side of the game.
Caesar
Member
Re: West Indies in Australia
I think I'm not expressing myself well... LtD's post sums up a lot of what I mean.
My issue is not because I think Warner isn't talented - actually, quite the reverse. With the clean shots and good eye/timing he has there is no reason why he couldn't be an effective ODI player, and first class cricketer. Yet he's concentrated on developing T20 skills to the detriment of becoming an allround player.
I'm afraid that he's the start of a range of talented cricketers who will see that it's not necessary to develop good overall fundamentals to succeed and make money at the highest level. They will concentrate on developing the skills that count in T20, whereas before even if they were clean hitters they would have had to become more allround players (e.g. Jayasuriya, Gilchrist, Watson).
I think I'm not expressing myself well... LtD's post sums up a lot of what I mean.
My issue is not because I think Warner isn't talented - actually, quite the reverse. With the clean shots and good eye/timing he has there is no reason why he couldn't be an effective ODI player, and first class cricketer. Yet he's concentrated on developing T20 skills to the detriment of becoming an allround player.
I'm afraid that he's the start of a range of talented cricketers who will see that it's not necessary to develop good overall fundamentals to succeed and make money at the highest level. They will concentrate on developing the skills that count in T20, whereas before even if they were clean hitters they would have had to become more allround players (e.g. Jayasuriya, Gilchrist, Watson).
thommy_rissole
Member
Re: West Indies in Australia
David Warner has only been on the scene a short period of time and NSW 1st Class team is quite good (on paper) so there could be two potential issues with not breaking into the side. He is better suited to one-day and T20 cricket the same way Andrew Symonds was when he first started out in International Cricket.
Players will still learn to build an innings and play with the patience required at First Class level – good young cricketers still aspire to play Test Match cricket. We need to start to look at cricket at 3 different levels. T20, 1 Day & 4 Day.
All the training they do at State level and at the COE is all geared towards representing Australia at all three levels.
There still will be young cricketers who aren’t good at T20 level so they will focus entirely on playing the longer forms of the game. Example Langer.
I know this isn’t my most compelling argument but I personally don’t think this will be the death of the Test level batsmen (especially in Australia) and I think we should embrace Warner and the likes and appreciate what they are able to do.
David Warner has only been on the scene a short period of time and NSW 1st Class team is quite good (on paper) so there could be two potential issues with not breaking into the side. He is better suited to one-day and T20 cricket the same way Andrew Symonds was when he first started out in International Cricket.
Players will still learn to build an innings and play with the patience required at First Class level – good young cricketers still aspire to play Test Match cricket. We need to start to look at cricket at 3 different levels. T20, 1 Day & 4 Day.
All the training they do at State level and at the COE is all geared towards representing Australia at all three levels.
There still will be young cricketers who aren’t good at T20 level so they will focus entirely on playing the longer forms of the game. Example Langer.
I know this isn’t my most compelling argument but I personally don’t think this will be the death of the Test level batsmen (especially in Australia) and I think we should embrace Warner and the likes and appreciate what they are able to do.
Caesar
Member
Re: West Indies in Australia
I have no idea what he does in the nets, but his career up to this point has been focused on developing the big shots. That's not meant to be a slight on him personally - full credit to him, it's served him well, and it's not like good defence really matters that much in T20.
But all this is kind of missing the point I'm making - being that he's proof positive that a player can be highly successful internationally without developing traditional allround cricketing skills.
Because even when he is playing the longer format, he hits out like it's a T20 game. When I was watching the NSW Seconds last season you could tell he'd honed his striking to international quality, yet his defensive technique was still like that of an average grade player. His motto regardless of format is 'hit out or get out'.breeno;389868 said:
I have no idea what he does in the nets, but his career up to this point has been focused on developing the big shots. That's not meant to be a slight on him personally - full credit to him, it's served him well, and it's not like good defence really matters that much in T20.
But all this is kind of missing the point I'm making - being that he's proof positive that a player can be highly successful internationally without developing traditional allround cricketing skills.