Why isn't Phil Hughes in the ODI team?
- Thread starter gbatman
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Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
tests and ODIs are very different, and as such the selectors go by a players performance at domestic level depending on the form of the game, as you surely know. hughes hasnt done that well in ODers. i dont know the facts but i am pretty sure he averaged around 30 and didnt score consistently. haddin and marsh are perfect in my view. until marsh is fit they should look for a suitable replacement from domestic level, whoever did the best last season. hopes did very well in the third ODI against pakistan, but past trials of him in that position have proved futile. i am not sure who went well in ODers last year opening. maybe rogers? have him bat until marsh gets back, like they would do for anyone else.
tests and ODIs are very different, and as such the selectors go by a players performance at domestic level depending on the form of the game, as you surely know. hughes hasnt done that well in ODers. i dont know the facts but i am pretty sure he averaged around 30 and didnt score consistently. haddin and marsh are perfect in my view. until marsh is fit they should look for a suitable replacement from domestic level, whoever did the best last season. hopes did very well in the third ODI against pakistan, but past trials of him in that position have proved futile. i am not sure who went well in ODers last year opening. maybe rogers? have him bat until marsh gets back, like they would do for anyone else.
postmanpav
Active Member
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the story is they wanted to rest him so they didn't overload him.
Although he is playing county at the moment so I'm not 100% sure.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the story is they wanted to rest him so they didn't overload him.
Although he is playing county at the moment so I'm not 100% sure.
gundalf7
Active Member
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
obviously the only reason is to demoralise the english before the ashes by letting him destroy every county bowling attack, pschycological warfare from the aussie board.
Seriously though I don't think that they want to over expose him at the moment due to his age as he will be around in the test and odi team for a long career
obviously the only reason is to demoralise the english before the ashes by letting him destroy every county bowling attack, pschycological warfare from the aussie board.
Seriously though I don't think that they want to over expose him at the moment due to his age as he will be around in the test and odi team for a long career
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
he wouldnt make the ODI team, hes not a good enough OD player because he has spent his time concentrating on the longer form of the game, which is fair enough.
he, like hussey, ponting and a few others are playing county now to prepare for the ashes on their pitches in their weather against their bowlers, plus a little bit of that pschycological factor gundalf7 mentioned.
he wouldnt make the ODI team, hes not a good enough OD player because he has spent his time concentrating on the longer form of the game, which is fair enough.
he, like hussey, ponting and a few others are playing county now to prepare for the ashes on their pitches in their weather against their bowlers, plus a little bit of that pschycological factor gundalf7 mentioned.
Caesar
Member
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
List A form has been poor, and our top order for the ODIs is not that bad really. Combine that with the need not to overexpose him, and I think this decision makes sense.
Some pre-practice on English wickets is probably not a bad idea for his first major tour, anyway.
List A form has been poor, and our top order for the ODIs is not that bad really. Combine that with the need not to overexpose him, and I think this decision makes sense.
Some pre-practice on English wickets is probably not a bad idea for his first major tour, anyway.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
Probably not wanting to give him too much too soon. Which is understandable and fair enough.
His only 20 and his batting in a very important position.
I don't know how much experience he would have had on sub-continent wickets and against spinners who can bowl the doorsa.
Probably not wanting to give him too much too soon. Which is understandable and fair enough.
His only 20 and his batting in a very important position.
I don't know how much experience he would have had on sub-continent wickets and against spinners who can bowl the doorsa.
gbatman
Member
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
Our top order in ODI's is shocking, we are kidding ourselves if we think it's ok. Players are holding their places on reputation alone. We are making shocking low scores and blaming the bowlers. Makes no sence.
Huges is an attacking opener. He looks perfect for the one day game and we do need an opener to bat with Haddin. Marsh is good but can bat at 3 and is already suffering from cronic hamstring tears.
The Australian selectors appear to take no notice of domestic form as Klinger and Hodge would be over there and not Watson, Symonds, Lee and Laughlin.
If ever the selectors are going to pick a player minus domestic form its him. And exposure to ODI cricket wouldn't hurt him 1 bit. He will play eventually.
Our top order in ODI's is shocking, we are kidding ourselves if we think it's ok. Players are holding their places on reputation alone. We are making shocking low scores and blaming the bowlers. Makes no sence.
Huges is an attacking opener. He looks perfect for the one day game and we do need an opener to bat with Haddin. Marsh is good but can bat at 3 and is already suffering from cronic hamstring tears.
The Australian selectors appear to take no notice of domestic form as Klinger and Hodge would be over there and not Watson, Symonds, Lee and Laughlin.
If ever the selectors are going to pick a player minus domestic form its him. And exposure to ODI cricket wouldn't hurt him 1 bit. He will play eventually.
gbatman
Member
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
well from what I see domestic form counts for little, the team is full of players with poor domestic form. If you picked a team based on the numbers it would look very different.
Play the best 4 batsmen in the country, in the country's best team, he's in it IMO.
well from what I see domestic form counts for little, the team is full of players with poor domestic form. If you picked a team based on the numbers it would look very different.
Play the best 4 batsmen in the country, in the country's best team, he's in it IMO.
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
he really hasnt gone as well as you may think. he concentrated very closely on the longer form of the game and has been rewarded as such. i don't want to take anything away from him, but he should just stick to that until he cements his spot for many many years to come.
from another perspective, though, it is inevitable that he will be dropped. unless his name is bradman or warne he will run out of form eventually, and when he does he will have to fight for his spot, like everyone else. it will also build his character. i think dropping a player is an essential thing to do to ensure that they know they arent indestructable after their initial success. if and when he gets dropped for that first time then he i suppose if he is playing in the ODI squad than he has another way to regain form and prove his point.
he really hasnt gone as well as you may think. he concentrated very closely on the longer form of the game and has been rewarded as such. i don't want to take anything away from him, but he should just stick to that until he cements his spot for many many years to come.
from another perspective, though, it is inevitable that he will be dropped. unless his name is bradman or warne he will run out of form eventually, and when he does he will have to fight for his spot, like everyone else. it will also build his character. i think dropping a player is an essential thing to do to ensure that they know they arent indestructable after their initial success. if and when he gets dropped for that first time then he i suppose if he is playing in the ODI squad than he has another way to regain form and prove his point.
gbatman
Member
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
Has been smashing tons in England, there's noquestion that he's good enough and he's attacking. I guess they might want him to play in england and ready for the ashes.
He's a good 20/twenty player, he better make the 20/twenty world cup squad.
Maby he's too young to play for Australia...
Dropped for bad form? But Hussey still gets a game...
Has been smashing tons in England, there's noquestion that he's good enough and he's attacking. I guess they might want him to play in england and ready for the ashes.
He's a good 20/twenty player, he better make the 20/twenty world cup squad.
Maby he's too young to play for Australia...
Dropped for bad form? But Hussey still gets a game...
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
i doubt he will make the T20 squad. australia has plenty of T20 opening choices at the moment, and they will want him to continue in county to finish off his preparation in destroying attacks. wonder if what he is doing over there is some big psychological game with the poms or whether he is doing just what he said he was doing and preparing.
i think he may be a future hopeful of being an opener in ODIs, australia does need an opener that opens in all forms of the game, then change the other partner, like haydos. i dont think he is ready or has the evidence of his effectiveness in the one day format as yet though.
i doubt he will make the T20 squad. australia has plenty of T20 opening choices at the moment, and they will want him to continue in county to finish off his preparation in destroying attacks. wonder if what he is doing over there is some big psychological game with the poms or whether he is doing just what he said he was doing and preparing.
i think he may be a future hopeful of being an opener in ODIs, australia does need an opener that opens in all forms of the game, then change the other partner, like haydos. i dont think he is ready or has the evidence of his effectiveness in the one day format as yet though.
Caesar
Member
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
Any idiot batsman can play well in T20, it's a crapshoot. Best off stacking the top order with sloggers, and odds on at least a couple of them will fire for big runs to get you a good total. Pedigree top-order batsmen are wasted in that form of the game.
My preference is for Hughes to remain in the Test team, then be brought into the ODI side only when his List A form improves AND a top-order vacancy arrives. I wouldn't mind if he never plays T20 - save that for the Warners of the world.
Any idiot batsman can play well in T20, it's a crapshoot. Best off stacking the top order with sloggers, and odds on at least a couple of them will fire for big runs to get you a good total. Pedigree top-order batsmen are wasted in that form of the game.
My preference is for Hughes to remain in the Test team, then be brought into the ODI side only when his List A form improves AND a top-order vacancy arrives. I wouldn't mind if he never plays T20 - save that for the Warners of the world.
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
Would you call Ponting a pedigree top-order batsman? What about Katich? They have two of the best 20/20 records in the Australian team.
On the other hand, at domestic level in recent times, Warner has been more dominant in the 50 over format than the 20 over format.
Like it or not, genuine strategies and skills are developing within the 20/20 game. It started off as just a hit-and-giggle slog-fest, but now, after a few years, teams are getting their heads around what they need to do to win games. To say pedigree batsmen are wasted on the game, and that big hitters like Warner are all that are needed, shows a deep ignorance of the game and how it has developed.
Caesar;348208 said:
Would you call Ponting a pedigree top-order batsman? What about Katich? They have two of the best 20/20 records in the Australian team.
On the other hand, at domestic level in recent times, Warner has been more dominant in the 50 over format than the 20 over format.
Like it or not, genuine strategies and skills are developing within the 20/20 game. It started off as just a hit-and-giggle slog-fest, but now, after a few years, teams are getting their heads around what they need to do to win games. To say pedigree batsmen are wasted on the game, and that big hitters like Warner are all that are needed, shows a deep ignorance of the game and how it has developed.
Caesar
Member
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
Because of the nature of the game, it's far more of a crapshoot and there's far less difference between the wheat and the chaff. With all the burnout going around, I'd rather leave the micky mouse format to developing players and sloggers with unsound technique, and save my premium players for the games that count.
I didn't say that good batsman can't play well in T20. Look at Hayden and Gilchrist in the IPL. My point is that, compared to the other forms of the game, good batsmen fail far more frequently and average batsman are far more successful.BabyBlues;348380 said:
Because of the nature of the game, it's far more of a crapshoot and there's far less difference between the wheat and the chaff. With all the burnout going around, I'd rather leave the micky mouse format to developing players and sloggers with unsound technique, and save my premium players for the games that count.
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
But the difference between the wheat and the chaff is growing every year. Players are adapting to the different skills and strategies needed for 20/20 cricket. At first it was just hit and giggle, with the biggest slogger usually coming out on top. But now, just like in ODIs, accumulators are finding their place (players like Hodge and Marsh, for example) alongside the sloggers. Clever bowlers are being rewarded. Fielding is absolutely crucial, as is punishing the bad ball. There's an art to 20/20 cricket. It's still very undeveloped, as you'd expect with a game that's so young, but give it time and the skills and strategy required to be successful will be just the same as ODI cricket.
Caesar;348389 said:
But the difference between the wheat and the chaff is growing every year. Players are adapting to the different skills and strategies needed for 20/20 cricket. At first it was just hit and giggle, with the biggest slogger usually coming out on top. But now, just like in ODIs, accumulators are finding their place (players like Hodge and Marsh, for example) alongside the sloggers. Clever bowlers are being rewarded. Fielding is absolutely crucial, as is punishing the bad ball. There's an art to 20/20 cricket. It's still very undeveloped, as you'd expect with a game that's so young, but give it time and the skills and strategy required to be successful will be just the same as ODI cricket.
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
i think what ceaser is trying to say, and i agree with him, is that a top order test batsman isnt necessarily a good T20 batsman. just because they may average 45-50 something in tests doesnt mean you are going to be good in T20s. as good as clarke may be in tests in think that spot is wasted by putting him in the T20 side when it is obvious we have some brilliant sloggers around australia. like having symonds, hopes, bracken etc only in the ODI side and not also in the test side, it is a completely different form of the game and therefore requires a completely different style batsman. often they are batsman that are sloggers and maybe hackers that are also good at ODIs, but not always. ponting, hussey, haddin(if opening) and watson (if opening, otherwise low order) the only top order batsman i would have that come from the ODI side. then the lower order could have players like henriques, nannes, dave hussey and such that have flourished in the big bash but not much else. and dont forget symonds. there are some spinners that have exceptional records in T20s but not much else. a waste having the ODI spinner hauritz in the side just because he plays ODers if he gets hit for 9 an over. d hussey has proven his worth as a spinner in T20s, maybe he could play that role, especially if he can fill the spinners spot and bat down there as well (in T20s that more slogging batsman the merrier). and after what is happening in SA maybe, just maybe, CA could beg on their knees for hayden and gilchrist to comeback for the T20 world cup. never happen, just wishful thinking.
i think what ceaser is trying to say, and i agree with him, is that a top order test batsman isnt necessarily a good T20 batsman. just because they may average 45-50 something in tests doesnt mean you are going to be good in T20s. as good as clarke may be in tests in think that spot is wasted by putting him in the T20 side when it is obvious we have some brilliant sloggers around australia. like having symonds, hopes, bracken etc only in the ODI side and not also in the test side, it is a completely different form of the game and therefore requires a completely different style batsman. often they are batsman that are sloggers and maybe hackers that are also good at ODIs, but not always. ponting, hussey, haddin(if opening) and watson (if opening, otherwise low order) the only top order batsman i would have that come from the ODI side. then the lower order could have players like henriques, nannes, dave hussey and such that have flourished in the big bash but not much else. and dont forget symonds. there are some spinners that have exceptional records in T20s but not much else. a waste having the ODI spinner hauritz in the side just because he plays ODers if he gets hit for 9 an over. d hussey has proven his worth as a spinner in T20s, maybe he could play that role, especially if he can fill the spinners spot and bat down there as well (in T20s that more slogging batsman the merrier). and after what is happening in SA maybe, just maybe, CA could beg on their knees for hayden and gilchrist to comeback for the T20 world cup. never happen, just wishful thinking.
King Pietersen
sC Player of the Month June '08
Re: Why isn't Phill Hughes in the ODI team?
He suffers from Matthew Hayden syndrome (from 2001-2006ish) in OD cricket, trying to smack the ball too hard. He's not got a good List A record at all, and has struggled in England in the FP Trophy, getting out cheaply quite often. There's no doubting his FC credentials, but I don't think he'll be a viable option in ODi cricket for 3 or 4 years. I'd rather see Warner in the ODi team tbh.
He suffers from Matthew Hayden syndrome (from 2001-2006ish) in OD cricket, trying to smack the ball too hard. He's not got a good List A record at all, and has struggled in England in the FP Trophy, getting out cheaply quite often. There's no doubting his FC credentials, but I don't think he'll be a viable option in ODi cricket for 3 or 4 years. I'd rather see Warner in the ODi team tbh.