Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
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The Top of Off
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Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
Thanks Weapons but no, I'm not the Gelli's new pres.
From what their website says, the players do have to go back and use it on the night. Not sure what they pay for a beer at Gellibrand, but at general cricket club bar prices, you could shout the whole team two or three times over if you had a good day-or at least the guys who took your catches or the blokes you batted with could drink free!
Given that at most clubs, the bar would be one the biggest if not the biggest source of income, I would be concerned that it would significantly affect the finances, particularly since the bigger spends generally come after good performances.
It's not something I would want to see at my club (even if it did mean I spent less over the bar
). Best to spend your money on two-three good A-Turf players. They will bring people to the ground, who in turn spend money over the bar.
I suppose it could work if no-one is being paid anything at all other than these incentives...not sure that it would be the case, though.
weapons05/06;405879 said:correct.....good to get the boys and their familys back under any circumstances.....
so your telling me if you dont go back you dont get coin/bar credits???
you must be the new pres......welcome to bigcricket.......
and yes its hard to find the dpacc website im about to get that up and running again......so everybody look out for it......
Thanks Weapons but no, I'm not the Gelli's new pres.
From what their website says, the players do have to go back and use it on the night. Not sure what they pay for a beer at Gellibrand, but at general cricket club bar prices, you could shout the whole team two or three times over if you had a good day-or at least the guys who took your catches or the blokes you batted with could drink free!
Given that at most clubs, the bar would be one the biggest if not the biggest source of income, I would be concerned that it would significantly affect the finances, particularly since the bigger spends generally come after good performances.
It's not something I would want to see at my club (even if it did mean I spent less over the bar
). Best to spend your money on two-three good A-Turf players. They will bring people to the ground, who in turn spend money over the bar. I suppose it could work if no-one is being paid anything at all other than these incentives...not sure that it would be the case, though.
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
probably the last week in september as per every year.
any news on if they are going to keep 8 in A Turf or 10? 8 teams would be ideal i believe. Play everyone in both a 1 dayer and 2 dayer and get a fairer comp
Superowl;405884 said:
probably the last week in september as per every year.
any news on if they are going to keep 8 in A Turf or 10? 8 teams would be ideal i believe. Play everyone in both a 1 dayer and 2 dayer and get a fairer comp
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
Hi everyone
Im involved in one of the new clubs to enter your association and looking forward to the challenge of playing in your comp.
However i am dismayed at the focus on player payments and incentives involved. I would have thought that all your clubs would be in a stronger financial position and be able to provide better facilities etc for their members
if it was not for the impost of player payments.Is winning so important that it overshadows all else. Surely money is better used for the devepment of your juniors and getting participation levels up?
Hi everyone
Im involved in one of the new clubs to enter your association and looking forward to the challenge of playing in your comp.
However i am dismayed at the focus on player payments and incentives involved. I would have thought that all your clubs would be in a stronger financial position and be able to provide better facilities etc for their members
if it was not for the impost of player payments.Is winning so important that it overshadows all else. Surely money is better used for the devepment of your juniors and getting participation levels up?
The Top of Off
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Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
Firstly Bowler, welcome to the WDCA!
Weapons and I were discussing the radical plan by Gellibrand to offer wicket/run incentives from 1sts down to 3rds that are bar credits only.
Don't be too dismayed at the player payments issue. Generally speaking, any payments happen only at A-Turf level and (at least in my experience) surround a captain/coach and maybe two or three key players at the most. I have certainly never been paid to play A-Turf! You will not find paid players steaming in and taking 7-for (expcept the beer incentivised Gelli's) in the C-Composite or the A-Matting.
The best players are often looking for money and as it is out there, clubs need to take these measures to attract and retain players who can help win an A-Turf flag. Rest assured though, the $$ on offer are nothing like those in footy (we aren't the WRFL with a huge gulf between top flight sides).
The clubs that have juniors do seem to support them well, although I don't have too much experience in that area. Maybe Weapons could offer something on that point.
bowler;406107 said:
Firstly Bowler, welcome to the WDCA!
Weapons and I were discussing the radical plan by Gellibrand to offer wicket/run incentives from 1sts down to 3rds that are bar credits only.
Don't be too dismayed at the player payments issue. Generally speaking, any payments happen only at A-Turf level and (at least in my experience) surround a captain/coach and maybe two or three key players at the most. I have certainly never been paid to play A-Turf! You will not find paid players steaming in and taking 7-for (expcept the beer incentivised Gelli's) in the C-Composite or the A-Matting.
The best players are often looking for money and as it is out there, clubs need to take these measures to attract and retain players who can help win an A-Turf flag. Rest assured though, the $$ on offer are nothing like those in footy (we aren't the WRFL with a huge gulf between top flight sides).
The clubs that have juniors do seem to support them well, although I don't have too much experience in that area. Maybe Weapons could offer something on that point.
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
Thanks for the feedback.
The bit that concerns me is you say clubs feel the need to pay to attract or retain players with the thought of winning A turf.
Is there a cash prize for winning A turf?
If not what does the club gain out of it?
How do members in the lower grades feel when their subs are increased to cover the cost of new recruits?
What is the feeling around the club when the new recruit fails to live up to the expectations and blokes playing for the love of the club are out performing the paid player .(must lead to bad blood ,backstabbing etc)
Would seem to me (and it is only my opinion) that if the commitee members at these clubs are not getting paid for the vast amount of time they work for the club then no one else should expect to take money from the club.
Cheers
Thanks for the feedback.
The bit that concerns me is you say clubs feel the need to pay to attract or retain players with the thought of winning A turf.
Is there a cash prize for winning A turf?
If not what does the club gain out of it?
How do members in the lower grades feel when their subs are increased to cover the cost of new recruits?
What is the feeling around the club when the new recruit fails to live up to the expectations and blokes playing for the love of the club are out performing the paid player .(must lead to bad blood ,backstabbing etc)
Would seem to me (and it is only my opinion) that if the commitee members at these clubs are not getting paid for the vast amount of time they work for the club then no one else should expect to take money from the club.
Cheers
The Top of Off
New Member
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
Firstly, no there is not a cash prize for winning A-Turf, however, this is the holy grail of any club competing in the WDCA. It is an extremely competitive level of cricket and is taken very seriously by those who play (and have played) at that level. It is a very good standard of cricket which has in the past attracted former District 1sts and former 1st Class players.
In my experience, lower grade players all ultimately want the club to win the A-Turf and are happy to support that goal. At my club we in the lower grades are always on the phone during Saturday to follow what is happening in the A-Turf. It is the main game. A successful A-Turf side strengthens the talent pool down through the grades, as you will have more players in the lower grades who could/should be playing higher, pushing for selection.
Subs are not usually where clubs will draw funds from, as they do aim to make cricket affordable for all (including non-paid A-Turf players). They will generally look at sponsorship and fundraising to be the areas to do this. Clubs don't spend above their means and we are certainly not talking footy club $$ here.
In my experience clubs are careful with their recruiting and try to avoid 'mercenaries' who will not fit in with the club culture. Players who are not paid are, in my experience, generally understanding and do not go around causing ill will.
Committee members are also in my experience, happy to volunteer their time and efforts to see the club be successful. Any arrangements to pay players are done with the ultimate goal of attracting the necessary talent to compete at the highest level and are instigated by the committee with the support of the club members.
Maybe this is reflective of the strong culture at the two clubs I have played at in my time in the WDCA. I would be interested to see others' points of view on this.
bowler;406182 said:
Firstly, no there is not a cash prize for winning A-Turf, however, this is the holy grail of any club competing in the WDCA. It is an extremely competitive level of cricket and is taken very seriously by those who play (and have played) at that level. It is a very good standard of cricket which has in the past attracted former District 1sts and former 1st Class players.
In my experience, lower grade players all ultimately want the club to win the A-Turf and are happy to support that goal. At my club we in the lower grades are always on the phone during Saturday to follow what is happening in the A-Turf. It is the main game. A successful A-Turf side strengthens the talent pool down through the grades, as you will have more players in the lower grades who could/should be playing higher, pushing for selection.
Subs are not usually where clubs will draw funds from, as they do aim to make cricket affordable for all (including non-paid A-Turf players). They will generally look at sponsorship and fundraising to be the areas to do this. Clubs don't spend above their means and we are certainly not talking footy club $$ here.
In my experience clubs are careful with their recruiting and try to avoid 'mercenaries' who will not fit in with the club culture. Players who are not paid are, in my experience, generally understanding and do not go around causing ill will.
Committee members are also in my experience, happy to volunteer their time and efforts to see the club be successful. Any arrangements to pay players are done with the ultimate goal of attracting the necessary talent to compete at the highest level and are instigated by the committee with the support of the club members.
Maybe this is reflective of the strong culture at the two clubs I have played at in my time in the WDCA. I would be interested to see others' points of view on this.
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
thanks for your views on this subject as i think a frank and open discussion can only help people (read me) understand where different clubs stand on this issue.
I knew there is no cash on offer for winning A turf but was trying to make the point that we are all only park cricketers playing for fun and yes we want to win the flag but not by sending clubs to the wall.
Sponsorship money etc can always be used in other ways for the betterment facilities etc.
thanks for your views on this subject as i think a frank and open discussion can only help people (read me) understand where different clubs stand on this issue.
I knew there is no cash on offer for winning A turf but was trying to make the point that we are all only park cricketers playing for fun and yes we want to win the flag but not by sending clubs to the wall.
Sponsorship money etc can always be used in other ways for the betterment facilities etc.
StAndrewsman
Member
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
although I am not totally for player payments and stuff like that, and I play in the VTCA, not Willy, but I can still see the benefits of paying players rather than bettering ur facilities. Last season was our first season in the VTCA and I think mostly the 'paid' or overseas players beat us in half our games. We could compete quite easily with their normal players, but their 1 or 2 paid players were a step above. Winning game=happy players=more ppl coming back/training=more bar sales and more social events. As long as the club goes after the rigth players such as 'we need an opening bowler' so they go after an opening bowler, it is fine.
My other point is bettering your clubrooms won't work out the way you want if you dont have a footy club there. Even if you do, it mite not work out. Talk to the teams going to use McIvor reserve's pavillion. 2 stages turned into a dodgy 1 stage project. Id rather have 2 paid players than 'dodgy' new clubrooms.
bowler;406202 said:
although I am not totally for player payments and stuff like that, and I play in the VTCA, not Willy, but I can still see the benefits of paying players rather than bettering ur facilities. Last season was our first season in the VTCA and I think mostly the 'paid' or overseas players beat us in half our games. We could compete quite easily with their normal players, but their 1 or 2 paid players were a step above. Winning game=happy players=more ppl coming back/training=more bar sales and more social events. As long as the club goes after the rigth players such as 'we need an opening bowler' so they go after an opening bowler, it is fine.
My other point is bettering your clubrooms won't work out the way you want if you dont have a footy club there. Even if you do, it mite not work out. Talk to the teams going to use McIvor reserve's pavillion. 2 stages turned into a dodgy 1 stage project. Id rather have 2 paid players than 'dodgy' new clubrooms.
Clear The Pickets
Member
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
Unfortunately for your club and ours we come from a culture of the WSUCCA where only the coaching staff got paid and players play for free. Saying this as St Andrewsman has said sometimes to be competitive with the opposition you need to fill the gaps to which you have deficiancies ie and opening fast bowler a good bat etc to give your team the edge over others. The Willi comp as with the VTCA, SCA, FCA before it all have paid players for many a years and have helped clubs be quite successful. Im all for developing your younger players but when they get good and go onto another level above ours and then have fininshed at the higher level they seem to go chase where the money is and you sort of hope they return to you but they dont seem to do that, so if you cant offer a bit of incentive to get them to return why not. But myself i have played at clubs that have paid players it does put pressure on the player especially if they are not performing, i much prefer to play with your mates and for the fun of it also having the seriousnous to win, but a bit of a bonus at the end wouldnt go astray as long as your club knows there boundaries on what they can and cannot afford and where there priorities lie ie new clubrooms, turf wicket whatever. We are entering a new competition you may not like what is happening with paying players or any other changes, but we need to embrace it and move forward. Your club, and ours will we will be looking forward to the challenge ahead and the chance to play against different opposition.All the best for the coming season
bowler;406202 said:
Unfortunately for your club and ours we come from a culture of the WSUCCA where only the coaching staff got paid and players play for free. Saying this as St Andrewsman has said sometimes to be competitive with the opposition you need to fill the gaps to which you have deficiancies ie and opening fast bowler a good bat etc to give your team the edge over others. The Willi comp as with the VTCA, SCA, FCA before it all have paid players for many a years and have helped clubs be quite successful. Im all for developing your younger players but when they get good and go onto another level above ours and then have fininshed at the higher level they seem to go chase where the money is and you sort of hope they return to you but they dont seem to do that, so if you cant offer a bit of incentive to get them to return why not. But myself i have played at clubs that have paid players it does put pressure on the player especially if they are not performing, i much prefer to play with your mates and for the fun of it also having the seriousnous to win, but a bit of a bonus at the end wouldnt go astray as long as your club knows there boundaries on what they can and cannot afford and where there priorities lie ie new clubrooms, turf wicket whatever. We are entering a new competition you may not like what is happening with paying players or any other changes, but we need to embrace it and move forward. Your club, and ours will we will be looking forward to the challenge ahead and the chance to play against different opposition.
All the best for the coming season
weapons05/06
Active Member
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
jnrs yeah well they need to be supported otherwise like alot of clubs with no kids they fall behind the wayside in terms of player retainment/new players......
at my club we arnt looking for new players we are looking for the kids to come through and fill the void.......with that comes experiance for the kids and a sence of satisfaction as a club......the good ones we will push to higher levels (district/sub district)and for me that means if they are successfull and once they have got the most out of themselves they have got a home to come back to......
on the grape vine......
there will be most likely 8 teams in a-turf.....
there will be another a-turf sec 1 this year for clubs who only have b-turf...
b-turf for all the duds like hussler....
with a promotion/relegation system
c-turf
a-mats
b-mats
one day
thoughts????
The Top of Off;406164 said:
jnrs yeah well they need to be supported otherwise like alot of clubs with no kids they fall behind the wayside in terms of player retainment/new players......
at my club we arnt looking for new players we are looking for the kids to come through and fill the void.......with that comes experiance for the kids and a sence of satisfaction as a club......the good ones we will push to higher levels (district/sub district)and for me that means if they are successfull and once they have got the most out of themselves they have got a home to come back to......
on the grape vine......
there will be most likely 8 teams in a-turf.....
there will be another a-turf sec 1 this year for clubs who only have b-turf...
b-turf for all the duds like hussler....
with a promotion/relegation systemc-turf
a-mats
b-mats
one day
thoughts????
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
clear the pickets.
all true my friend But player payments will escalate and clubs will die because of it but every one seems to think cricket can afford this and as long as thier club is ok so be it .
what is stopping any club with a generous sponsor buying a team of champions and effectively killing the comp?
And my concern is not only for WDCA but all competions below subby's
Again thanks for your input (i have had my say and will be quiet now)
clear the pickets.
all true my friend But player payments will escalate and clubs will die because of it but every one seems to think cricket can afford this and as long as thier club is ok so be it .
what is stopping any club with a generous sponsor buying a team of champions and effectively killing the comp?
And my concern is not only for WDCA but all competions below subby's
Again thanks for your input (i have had my say and will be quiet now)
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
weapons
is c turf a composite grade or will teams with more than two matting teams be forced to have more than one team in a particular grade?
I am really pleased to hear your clubs policy on bringing the juniors through the grades.
bowler
weapons
is c turf a composite grade or will teams with more than two matting teams be forced to have more than one team in a particular grade?
I am really pleased to hear your clubs policy on bringing the juniors through the grades.
bowler
Clear The Pickets
Member
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
There is nothing wrong with raising or viewing your opinions so i would not be quiet if i was you. I agree with what your saying with payments and also believe juniors are your future and playing them is a must. And yes any team with enough support behind them can buy a premiership, just look at the AFL when it used to be the VFL before the salary cap and drafts etc maybe there is an option salary caps etc may need to be looked at in the future if payments get out of hand. Keep the opinions coming its been refreshing and is always good to see how other people look at things. Cheers
bowler;406368 said:
There is nothing wrong with raising or viewing your opinions so i would not be quiet if i was you. I agree with what your saying with payments and also believe juniors are your future and playing them is a must. And yes any team with enough support behind them can buy a premiership, just look at the AFL when it used to be the VFL before the salary cap and drafts etc maybe there is an option salary caps etc may need to be looked at in the future if payments get out of hand. Keep the opinions coming its been refreshing and is always good to see how other people look at things. Cheers
hussler
Active Member
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
I like the way you worded this post.............dont you mean.............8 teams in a-turf...B-TURF SEC 1 for all the so called dud teams who cant compete in A-Turf????????????????????
If I remember correctly, the Husslers DUDS flogged the WEAPONS DUDS last time we played you,cant even beat our 2nds.......1 nil...
weapons05/06;406367 said:jnrs yeah well they need to be supported otherwise like alot of clubs with no kids they fall behind the wayside in terms of player retainment/new players......
at my club we arnt looking for new players we are looking for the kids to come through and fill the void.......with that comes experiance for the kids and a sence of satisfaction as a club......the good ones we will push to higher levels (district/sub district)and for me that means if they are successfull and once they have got the most out of themselves they have got a home to come back to......
on the grape vine......
there will be most likely 8 teams in a-turf.....
there will be another a-turf sec 1 this year for clubs who only have b-turf...
b-turf for all the duds like hussler....
c-turf
a-mats
b-mats
one day
thoughts????
I like the way you worded this post.............dont you mean.............8 teams in a-turf...B-TURF SEC 1 for all the so called dud teams who cant compete in A-Turf????????????????????
If I remember correctly, the Husslers DUDS flogged the WEAPONS DUDS last time we played you,cant even beat our 2nds
.......1 nil...
weapons05/06
Active Member
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
c-turf is a composite grade.......
im sure the comp wont allow clubs to have 2 teams in a particular grade......
bowler;406369 said:
c-turf is a composite grade.......
im sure the comp wont allow clubs to have 2 teams in a particular grade......
weapons05/06
Active Member
Re: Williamstown and District Cricket Association 2010/11
from what i was told it will be worded a-turf sec 1......well have to wait and see... we wont be able to compete with c$$$ed up a-turf teams......we are building for that......other than 1 dayers we were the best team in b1 last year and the stats say that......wernt good enough when it counted.....
hahahaha........bbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz another mudsucking carp......if you read it correctly..........i said duds like hussler!!!!
you got 1 thing right.......you gave us a touch up by 30 runs!!!!
i might have to take the great man fishing again!!!!
hussler;406390 said:I like the way you worded this post.............dont you mean.............8 teams in a-turf...B-TURF SEC 1 for all the so called dud teams who cant compete in A-Turf????????????????????
If I remember correctly, the Husslers DUDS flogged the WEAPONS DUDS last time we played you,cant even beat our 2nds
from what i was told it will be worded a-turf sec 1......well have to wait and see... we wont be able to compete with c$$$ed up a-turf teams......we are building for that......other than 1 dayers we were the best team in b1 last year and the stats say that......wernt good enough when it counted.....
hahahaha........bbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz another mudsucking carp......if you read it correctly..........i said duds like hussler!!!!
you got 1 thing right.......you gave us a touch up by 30 runs!!!!
i might have to take the great man fishing again!!!!
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