Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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SLA said:
Do you mix up slider and stock leg break 50:50? Does it change to lefthanders?
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I probably do mix it up about 50:50 now. I might even bowl the slider a bit more than the legspinner. They are quite similar deliveries so I am very comfortable switching between them.

I bowled to a lefthander in my last game a couple of weeks ago. He came in and was playing quite aggressively. I went around the wicket early on and tried a few topspinners. In fairness to the leftie, his went for cow corner early on and that's a fair enough shot when you're going with the spin. But he then went against the spin with a cover drive. It had me scratching my head a bit. I didn't know whether to bowl quick sliders, to float a few up there, to stay over the wicket or go around. He hit about 14 runs off me and then he hit a topspinner straight down long off's neck. Unfortunately for me, the fielder spilled it and went for a boundary four. I was not a happy bunny. The next over, our young left-arm wrist spinner got him out with a lovely delivery after having been hit for a couple of fours. The left-armer bowls with a lot of overspin and this batter was using his feet. He was beaten by a bit of dip.

I was still thinking, at the end of the game, what I could have done differently to that left-hander to try and tie him down.
 
I didn't bowl as well today as I did a couple of weeks ago in my last game. I picked up a couple of wickets, but went for 49 off my 8 overs. Had a couple of catches put down by the fielders. One was a tough one as it was hit quite hard, but still should have been taken. The other was an absolute doddle of a catch to slip, who spilled it. I bowled a topspinner and it bounced up and got the edge. Always annoying when you plan for something, do everything you can do and someone let's you down. It happened in my last game too when another topspinner was spilled by Long off.

I think I was one step behind the batter a few times today instead of one step ahead. I know what I should be doing, but I was guilty today of not following advice on this thread from people including me! I was chopping and changing too much from legspinner to slider to topspinner to quicker ball to slower ball. As a result, my line and length was not what it should have been. I should have stuck to the legspinner, especially whilst the batters were playing a few shots and getting some runs. It should be a nice consistent line and length just on or outside offstump, with the field set accordingly.

2 for 49 from 8 isn't the worst return on the back of a sub-standard peformance. I've struggled to bowl a good first over in the past. Recently, including today, I've sorted that out. That's what was disappointing. I started well and didn't really kick on from that.

The batting was a bit annoying. I only lasted 3 balls! The bowler had a bit of pace, but nothing that concerning. His run up gave him the look of a much quicker bowler. I pushed out at the first two balls, feeling for it and playing a fraction too early. The thing that really disappointed me was that, after the 2nd ball I heard a fielder saying "he's pushing out at it" and I thought the bowler may well think about a slower ball. Wouldn't you know it, he bowled a slower ball, which I left and was bowled by. I couldn't believe that I called it and still played it so badly. I think it was an offcutter and it gripped a little as I left it on line. So it either moved in a touch or I got the line all wrong. Chances are, as it was a slower ball, that it was an offcutter and it may well have moved in a touch. Either way, I should have not left it. Ah well, I have 2 games left now. I'm determined to get a 50 with the bat in one of those games.
 
Cleanprophet said:
I probably do mix it up about 50:50 now. I might even bowl the slider a bit more than the legspinner. They are quite similar deliveries so I am very comfortable switching between them.

I bowled to a lefthander in my last game a couple of weeks ago. He came in and was playing quite aggressively. I went around the wicket early on and tried a few topspinners. In fairness to the leftie, his went for cow corner early on and that's a fair enough shot when you're going with the spin. But he then went against the spin with a cover drive. It had me scratching my head a bit. I didn't know whether to bowl quick sliders, to float a few up there, to stay over the wicket or go around. He hit about 14 runs off me and then he hit a topspinner straight down long off's neck. Unfortunately for me, the fielder spilled it and went for a boundary four. I was not a happy bunny. The next over, our young left-arm wrist spinner got him out with a lovely delivery after having been hit for a couple of fours. The left-armer bowls with a lot of overspin and this batter was using his feet. He was beaten by a bit of dip.

I was still thinking, at the end of the game, what I could have done differently to that left-hander to try and tie him down.
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Its not easy. I'm a lefthander myself and always enjoy batting against wrist-spin. As you say, hitting with the spin over the legside is a pretty decent option for a leftie. If I can get to the pitch, I can punch the ball hard and flat over long-on, but even if I've made a slight misjudgement and haven't got quite to the pitch, its easy to adjust the shot and simply hit the ball on the up over midwicket instead, and even if I miss it, its just going to hit my pad and no harm done.
You can't really do this to a bowler turning the ball away from you. The chances of getting bowled, getting stumped, or simply slicing the ball up in the air are all magnified.

I would have probably tried to bowl in a corridor outside his off stump, force him to hit against the spin as much as possible. As a leftie I would probably respond by standing outside off stump to take lbw out of the equation and continue to work the ball through the legside, but if you set a good field, this could become risky. Other batsman would continue to cut and drive against the spin, but this is a better percentage for you, the chances of edging the ball are greatly increased.
 
SLA said:
Its not easy. I'm a lefthander myself and always enjoy batting against wrist-spin. As you say, hitting with the spin over the legside is a pretty decent option for a leftie. If I can get to the pitch, I can punch the ball hard and flat over long-on, but even if I've made a slight misjudgement and haven't got quite to the pitch, its easy to adjust the shot and simply hit the ball on the up over midwicket instead, and even if I miss it, its just going to hit my pad and no harm done.
You can't really do this to a bowler turning the ball away from you. The chances of getting bowled, getting stumped, or simply slicing the ball up in the air are all magnified.

I would have probably tried to bowl in a corridor outside his off stump, force him to hit against the spin as much as possible. As a leftie I would probably respond by standing outside off stump to take lbw out of the equation and continue to work the ball through the legside, but if you set a good field, this could become risky. Other batsman would continue to cut and drive against the spin, but this is a better percentage for you, the chances of edging the ball are greatly increased.
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Cheers for that. Good to have a lefthanders opinion. I went around the wicket and tried to keep it outside offstump to see if he wanted to drag it onto the legside. He hit a nice shot against the spin, but the topspinner I bowled to him induced a false shot. But I can fully understand why a lefthander enjoys facing legspin.

Chino#21 said:
The key to containing leg side players if you turn the ball in is to bowl half volleys wide outside off and set a 5-4 leg side field, that way the only safe scoring option they have is hitting through the covers which is exactly what you want them to do. If you can turn the ball a lot you have a huge advantage because the wider you can bowl outside the off stump, the better.
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I have found that bowling a consistent line outside off, especially half volley length, does mess up aggressive legside hitters. It is risky because if you lose your line and put one on the stumps they will be all over it. If you have good control of line, then keeping it outside off will get them out sooner rather than later.
 
Chino#21 said:
In my experience it gets them out almost immediately. If I'm bowling at a right hander I only have to pitch a few balls on the perfect spot wide outside off and he is going to make an error without me changing anything. I bowled at a leg side player on Saturday and just went over the wickets, angled everything away and pitched it wide outside off and he hit two catches straight up in the air. Both were dropped, but I did out think him twice in a row.

With the influence of T20 every batsman now wants to hit sixes and fours over long on and mid wicket, so the obvious tactic is then to force then to play the cover drive over and over and over, straight at your packed covers with a slip and bat pad and wait for the inevitable results. If you have good control you can change a few things ex. Bowl a topspinner or googly and tempt them to use their feet, or a backspinner on the stumps and watch them either leave it onto the stumps or sweep wildly at turn that isn't there.
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I don't think that's necessarily true at all levels, it simply sounds like you're a little bit too good for the batsmen in your division/age group. As you get older, the batsmen will get cannier.
 
Chino#21 said:
Yes that's understandable, it's still a good tactic to have at any level. It won't always work but it's a worthwhile tactic to try in any case, and it certainly works well if you can pull it off.

The batsmen do get cannier; but the bowlers get cannier too, especially the wrist spinners that mature quite late anyway.
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It's generally not a bad tactic anyway. Pick a spot, set your field accordingly and hit that spot as often as possible. Whether that is full-ish and just outside off or whatever. Most batters do want to attack, especially against a legspinner, so bowling a consistent line and length allows you to set a field that forces the batter to play well if he wants to get runs. It's very annoying when a batter is able to score runs when you know he is an especially decent player. That happens if your bowling is not consistent enough and/or your field isn't set properly.
 
First indoor net of the preseason out of the way, arms had nothing due to boxing fitness stuff the previous night but all in all things went well. There's something to be said for having no power in your arms when bowling legspin!
 
leftie600 said:
First indoor net of the preseason out of the way, arms had nothing due to boxing fitness stuff the previous night but all in all things went well. There's something to be said for having no power in your arms when bowling legspin!
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Jealous. basically 6 months till my pre-season starts. 6 months without cricket, just squash and wet-weather golf to keep me amused.
 
I missed out on runs today. I came in and played steadily for about 25-30 balls for just 9 runs. By that time, we only had about 15mins left before the captain wanted to declare so I had to try and get on with it. I got out swinging at one outside offstump that took the inside edge onto the stumps.

As for the bowling, I bowled reasonably well but nowhere near the level I expect of myself. I picked up a couple of wickets for 8 runs from just the three overs. The opposition were 8 down by that point and the captain wanted to give someone else a bowl rather than go for the kill. In the end, he nearly cost us the game as they put on about 40-50 runs for the 9th wicket before a wicket went down. He brought on an opening bowler to finish it off, which he did within 2 or 3 balls. I was quite disappointed to be taken off after only 4 overs as I felt I was starting to get a bit of rhythm.

The first wicket was quite nice. Against a left-handed batter who can bat a bit. I was bowling with a nice breeze blowing right across the pitch. I bowled one that drifted with the breeze. The batter was using his feet and coming at the ball but the ball was moving away from him all the time. In the end, he was out stumped but I think the batter got a little edge on it too. Either way, he was out. The other wicket was floated up outside off and the batt top edged it up in the air to point (who took an absolute dolly of a catch on the second attempt - I would have been livid if it was put down).

The last two games my slider hasn't really worked for me. 3 games ago I had the slider coming out really nicely. It's not felt good in the nets for a couple of weeks and in the last 2 games.

Just one game left now and that's it for the season.
 
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Played my last match of the season yesterday. It didn't go well for the team. For me, it was average. I don't feel I bowled anywhere near the level I can. I'd worked on something in the nets that seemed to help me get the slider out nice and quick (basically, I found that spinning the ball from hand to hand as hard as I can just before I start my run up helped me spin the ball hard and accurately in my delivery - not sure why that is, but it works). It didn't quite work yesterday even though I then went into the nets straight after and had the ball coming out with real fizz. Not sure why it's not happening consistently in matches.

That said, I lost count of the number of times the batters were playing and missing or playing and miss-hitting. When they did score runs it was off nothing more than a slog or from a poor delivery (I did bowl one full toss on legstump that was a 'help yourself to four runs' delivery). I had one or two catches put down and took just the one wicket from a stumping. I don't even know my figures but I think it was about 1 for 40 from 10 overs.

A big problem is that the team are just not good enough. It's only a friendly XI but we were up against a team full of competitive players including a few 1st team players. They were about 80/1 (they only lost that wicket because I took a tricky one-handed left-handed catch way above my head) when I came on to bowl. Unfortunately, most of the rest of the bowling was very poor and they racked up about 240 before delcaring. They then bowled us out for just 40! I opted to come in at 11, so we were 38/9 when I came in. They brought on their two quickest bowlers at that point (nothing properly quick, justa about the 70mph mark). I played a couple of decent shots and then missed a straight one. Poor show all round really. I'll do some work over the winter and stick to competitive cricket next season because these friendly XI players just can't play cricket. It's very annoying to not get supported in the field, to not get supported from the bowlers at the other end and to not get runs on the board.

On another note, I've been watching the young LWS bowler Kuldeep Yadav. I saw him a game in the U19 WC and was impressed. I was even more impressed by him in the Champions League game yesterday. He looks a very fine young wrist spinner.
 
Chino#21 said:
That's a huge generalization. With finger spin accuracy is easier, but the variations are harder. It is more difficult to attain over spin and bowl it consistently with as much revs as a wrist spinner. Flight isn't as easy to get and the only easy but effective variation is the variation that you have in pace as a finger spinner. So certain aspects of it are easier and others not. You can't just say it's easier.
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One thing I would say is that offspin is easier for beginners. The basic technique is something people new to offspin can pick up a bit quicker than legspin.
 
Cleanprophet said:
One thing I would say is that offspin is easier for beginners. The basic technique is something people new to offspin can pick up a bit quicker than legspin.
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Whenever I coach kids to bowl spin I find the exact opposite. Leg spin is just a far more natural way of spinning the ball.
 
Chino#21 said:
Yes but to most people the "natural" way of delivering the ball is like a fast bowler would bowl an outswing (backspin with a bit of off spin) whereas others find delivering the ball out of the back of the hand easier.
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As I said, batting right handed is easier so I do that. There are those strange people who find the left handed version easier, they tend to bat left handed.

Chino#21 said:
It's easier to throw off spin than to bowl it and it's almost impossible to throw leg spin so it makes sense to start learning how to bowl by bowling leg spin as SLA does with his coaching.
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Throwing the ball is not bowling, so I'm not sure why you'd mention it.

Chino#21 said:
I am a big fan of the arm ball but few off spinners can bowl it well enough to use it as effectively as a plain variation in pace which can also make the ball skid on.
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The arm ball is an easy and effective variation to bowl.
 
SLA said:
Whenever I coach kids to bowl spin I find the exact opposite. Leg spin is just a far more natural way of spinning the ball.
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I have to say, I bowl legspin but when I have a little go of bowling offspin I do find that quite a bit more natural. You just have much more control over the release. I have seen some decent young legspinners. The trouble they have is making the step up from bowling the slow, loopy legspinners to ripping it hard and a good bit quicker and flatter. It all depends on the individual I suppose.
 
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