someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
How's your season going then?
Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)
- Thread starter Richard the Third
- Start date
OK I guess?
Got a kid on the way so I've put myself bottom of the pile for selection, don't want them relying on me when next season I might be playing for a social team.
This has meant I have played quite a lot of serious stuff (including a T20 game this evening against the areas best club team, groan) and some for the next team down. Statistically only my RPO looks great as I've played the tougher games and let the younger guys find their feet against the easy teams.
Changes to my action have been really beneficial. A quicker delivery stride has prevented the pronounced collapse of my back leg, this has finally put an end to the leg and knee injuries that have plagued me over the last 4 years.
Delivery wise I am using the slider more as the googly has suffered slightly while I make the adjustment to the quicker action. Hasn't changed the results at all but I've lost the satisfaction of going through the gate with a googly (beating them with a straight one just doesn't do it for me).
The flipside of dropping a grade (for some games) is that I go up the batting order and get to captain! I'm starting to think of myself as a lower grade Richie Benaud
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
I have to ask don't I... Your 'Slider'. Talk me through it...OK I guess?
Got a kid on the way so I've put myself bottom of the pile for selection, don't want them relying on me when next season I might be playing for a social team.
This has meant I have played quite a lot of serious stuff (including a T20 game this evening against the areas best club team, groan) and some for the next team down. Statistically only my RPO looks great as I've played the tougher games and let the younger guys find their feet against the easy teams.
Changes to my action have been really beneficial. A quicker delivery stride has prevented the pronounced collapse of my back leg, this has finally put an end to the leg and knee injuries that have plagued me over the last 4 years.
Delivery wise I am using the slider more as the googly has suffered slightly while I make the adjustment to the quicker action. Hasn't changed the results at all but I've lost the satisfaction of going through the gate with a googly (beating them with a straight one just doesn't do it for me).
The flipside of dropping a grade (for some games) is that I go up the batting order and get to captain! I'm starting to think of myself as a lower grade Richie Benaud
I realise that you are not a believer of the slider.
The best explanation the slider is that it is an undercut legbreak, it has all the drift benefits of a normal legbreak and on a good pitch it does not turn.
It is very easy to bowl on purpose and to the average batsman it looks like a standard legbreak.
TheRoadWarrior
New Member
I'm sorry to have to ask the stupid question but I need to get things straight once and for all. Can someone please tell me what real (fictitious if you wish) deliveries a Wrist Spinner has in their armoury and a brief run down of what they actually do? I'm an Off Spinner myself so I'm not someone who knows the ins and outs of another style of bowling, especially if it's regarding these supposed "mystery" balls. I know for a fact that a lot of people mistakenly label the stock ball for any variation out there, even the commentators when it comes to informing the viewers.
I've heard of the Zooter/Zoota but never the Zoora, is this just a typo in the video (in the description it's called the Zoota) or is this another attempt at creating a "new" delivery?
I've heard of the Zooter/Zoota but never the Zoora, is this just a typo in the video (in the description it's called the Zoota) or is this another attempt at creating a "new" delivery?
Last edited:
Cleanprophet
Active Member
A lot of it is people giving different names to the same thing. Essentially, this "Zoora" delivery is just like a seam bowler's off cutter. The slider is a bit like a seam bowler's leg cutter. It can get overly complicated but if you think of these deliveries, as leftie says, as cutters then you see them for what they are really. Again, as leftie says, they will go straight on like most seam bowler's cutters do - unless the pitch offers a lot of turn and then they will grip a little.
GoldenArm
Member
exactly its just an undercut ball squeezed out from underneath the hand, its probably the easiest of all the variations to bowl, no mysteries. Its working it into a routine and setting the batsman up properly thats the hard part! Will be useful for you down under but on our English wickets it has no place whatsoever really unless we've had a really hot summer and the pitches are rock hard. Overspin is the one on our typical club sticky/slow wickets.
boogiespinner
Active Member
Dave I know that a degree of scepticism is called for with claimed legspin variations.
But, there really deserves to be no mystery about the slider.
For a seam up bowler, they will push the ball through with the index/middle fingers and vertical wrist movement so it has pure backspin. The index finger will go from 11 o'clock to 7 o'clock, the middle finger from 1 o'clock to 5 o'clock. That is straightforward, no?
Now consider the following ball. Imagine instead pushing the ball through with the ring finger from 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock, and a wrist action to match.
What will that do? Not an awful lot. It will go pretty much straight on, maybe swerve in a little (magnus drift), and possibly skid through a bit.
But its wonderful quality is this - it looks precisely like a legbreak. The wrist action, hand positions, are absolutely identical. And if the batsman is expecting a legbreak a fairly nondescript ball can be lethal.
I believe that is the slider.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
Cleanprophet
Active Member
Talking of undercut deliveries, what on earth is happening here with these two deliveries of mine:
Completely unintentional, but it looks to me like I'm actually dragging my fingers across and then under the ball (maintaining contact much longer than I should do). Can anyone else see that? I always used to wonder how it looked for all the world like I had bowled a topspinner/googly but the ball actually turned like a legspinner. Now, watching this release closely, I can see that it looks like an undercut legspinner but not the typical undercut legspinner that is usually known as the slider. The first video is a two-coloured ball with the white side facing the camera and you can actually see the white of the ball all the way with the seam almost completely like a sidespinning seam position but tilted back a little towards the camera. Very odd. As you can see, from the same session, I was still bowling proper legspinners with that bit of overspin on the ball:
I am using that technique of keeping the thumb on the ball. Maybe that is forcing my hand into this position? I know GoldenArm has been using that thumb technique, so I wonder if he has been experiencing something like this as well?
Completely unintentional, but it looks to me like I'm actually dragging my fingers across and then under the ball (maintaining contact much longer than I should do). Can anyone else see that? I always used to wonder how it looked for all the world like I had bowled a topspinner/googly but the ball actually turned like a legspinner. Now, watching this release closely, I can see that it looks like an undercut legspinner but not the typical undercut legspinner that is usually known as the slider. The first video is a two-coloured ball with the white side facing the camera and you can actually see the white of the ball all the way with the seam almost completely like a sidespinning seam position but tilted back a little towards the camera. Very odd. As you can see, from the same session, I was still bowling proper legspinners with that bit of overspin on the ball:
I am using that technique of keeping the thumb on the ball. Maybe that is forcing my hand into this position? I know GoldenArm has been using that thumb technique, so I wonder if he has been experiencing something like this as well?
Last edited:
Looks nice.. Can clanprophet or boogiespinner or anyone please give very close look in to exact hand release? May be from back side as it's difficult to view in full action view. For me I depend upon round the loop bowling. When I want to bowl straight then it is either top spinner or seam up like fast bowler and seam up is simple to pickup.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Cleanprophet
Active Member
To be honest, I used a cheap little camera when filming my bowling. It's supposed to be 1080p, which it may well be, but the actual footage is fairly low and not capable of producing good quality capture of the hand position through the release. It may well require a fairly professional standard of equipment to get a really good capture of the hand position.
I think it could well be a result of me having the thumb pressing firmly on the ball. It may well ensure that I put sidespin on the ball, but it may also have the effect of forcing my hand under the ball rather than over it.
I was thinking about something I've noticed before and I know Dave has mentioned on his blog about what Warne does with his thumb. I've not seen another leggie do it, but he bends his thumb into the palm of his hand. The thumb is usually in a normal position as he starts his delivery and then bends into the palm as the ball is released. Quite unusual and interesting. Have a look at this (in particular, around 2.05):
Here's another good one that's been around a while (around 1.25):
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
That's pretty much a delivery I used to bowl - different to Jeetan Patels and different to Warne's as described by himself. But then different again to the descriptions his coaches in the past have given and totally different to Terry Jenner's "Slider" which is an Orthodox back-spinner. Which is kind of the point I'm making - these are for the most part just bastardised versions of proper deliveries that slide on. Maybe I'm being pedantic? But I'm going to maintain the premise that, until someone of consequence (and that doesn't include newspaper editors who play club cricket), such as Warne, MacGill, or another significant bowler put it in writing - a definitive description of one of these deliveries and it's in an edited book with some kudos or gravitas, I still think the jury is out. I like your version - as I've said it's something I used to bowl, but I can't call it a Slider, but I concede it's a definite contender for the title. But so too is the Leg Break with the seam angled back so that the ball lands on the smooth side of the ball and not the seam - that for me is also a contender for the title and one that takes real skill to do execute. But you have to conceded a completely different ball to your fingers dragged down the back delivery. Another delivery that would slide on would be Benaud's flying saucer flipper and again a totally different delivery - but one that the uninitiated (Pundits) would immediately call a 'Slider'.
GoldenArm
Member
I have been using the thumb on the ball grip but I haven found I've been undercutting them. If anything it's made my turn wider and more consistent. If I want more over spin I just try and turn my wrist more over than around the ball and that seems to do the trick. It's really been a huge revelation for me combined with a later release and tucking my left elbow into my ribs to keep me from pulling to the left. It's taken a huge amount of pressure off my spinning finger because I can have a looser grip now, I haven't even torn the skin and I've been practicing like a man possessed since September. I would suggest that if somethings going wrong it's probably somewhere else in the action rather than the grip. Only problem I've encountered is that my googly has suffered but that's possibly because I simply haven't practiced it as I'm trying to nail the leg break down as much as possible. Probably won't even start working it back in until April time at the very earliest. Where are you based prophet? I knew these London lads are getting together, would be nice if there were some Midlands based leggies who could do the same.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
That's interesting. It's difficult to see on the footage I've provided, but I think I've probably not described it properly to say it is undercut. If you imagine the normal legspin release, these few deliveries of mine look like my spinning finger spins across and then under the ball (to do so, my hand finishes in a position that looks like a topspinner and almost a googly). It might be the way I've been using my thumb on the ball? I don't know. Today, I tried the same sort of thumb position that Warne uses (in the past I had my thumb off the ball completely). I only managed 5mins because the rain came in and became quite heavy. But, here's a couple of clips:
My thumb is still on the ball but not pressing as firmly. So, it's somewhere between where it used to be (ie not on the ball at all) and where it was recently. It looks pretty much spot on to me and there's lots of sidespin (maybe a touch too much!).
I'm in the North West by the way. I play for a club just outside St.Helens and in the Liverpool Leagues.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
That's looking good. It all looked nicely flighted, the line and length were good and it turned. I see what you mean about it looking like you are about to bowl the flipper. It's a nice loose grip and, as a result, looks like you are going to use the thumb in the release, just like a flipper.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
This is a pretty good video by a young fella who knows what he's talking about and has a very good action. He gives a good example of the slider as well:
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Yeah good vid, crap flipper though, brilliant Top-Spinner and yeah another one of those 'Slider' things.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
Yeah, his flipper is a bit like mine. It would be very easy to pick for the batter. That slider is the ball I always think of as THE slider. It's a bit like the seam bowlers leg cutter. More like a seam delivery but with the fingers cutting the ball a bit to make it look like a normal legspinner. Adil Rashid bowls a good slider.