Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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As I have probably made clear, I don't agree with that philosophy, and I think it is disproved by noting that as children, we learnt to walk, run, throw balls, jump, talk a language, all fantastically complex skills all much without the aid of professional coaches, but with vast amounts of repetition, an attitude of play and exploration, and most crucially, failing.
 
I'm not saying that I can't see a place for disciplined practice, expert advice, technical isolation. I think these are highly desirable. Nor that there isn't a risk of developing wrong habits or patterns.

But repetition seems to me to be the sine qua non.
 
Well you're the guinea pig here. How many hours have you been practicing leg spin using this method, and how effective has it been?

For reference - most 10 year olds are able to bowl legspin in a junior game - with maybe 1 wide per over - after maybe 2-3 hours guided practice.

I would estimate an adult would normally be able to master leg spin to a point where they can bowl it in low level league cricket without any wides etc, after maybe 10 half-hour sessions of guided practice.
 
Interesting masterclass with Warne and Vettori on sky last night. Nothing new to anyone who has read up on spin bowling, but still worth reminding ourselves of. Some of the takeaway points:

1) always bowl to stay on for the first 2-3 overs. Keep it simple, give yourself protection, and focus on finding a good line and length.
2) the biggest piece of technical advice for a spinner? Have as short a delivery stride as possible.
3) Make your practice as close to a match situation as possible. In particular bowling to a batsman is better than bowling without a batsman because it teaches you to spot cues.
 
SLA said:
Interesting masterclass with Warne and Vettori on sky last night. Nothing new to anyone who has read up on spin bowling, but still worth reminding ourselves of. Some of the takeaway points:

1) always bowl to stay on for the first 2-3 overs. Keep it simple, give yourself protection, and focus on finding a good line and length.
2) the biggest piece of technical advice for a spinner? Have as short a delivery stride as possible.
3) Make your practice as close to a match situation as possible. In particular bowling to a batsman is better than bowling without a batsman because it teaches you to spot cues.
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Just watched it, good one. I don't think 2nd advice works well for wrist spinners, wrist spinners need longer stride to maintain momentum.
 
Have something rather nice to report. Friendly game today. This is with a really slow outfield and we are defending a low total. I am kindly given an over. First ball I walk in, full toss dispatched, misfielded, four runs. Oh no. I can't remember the second but it was a dot. Third ball, a flighty full pitch legbreak. I didn't think it was that great but the batsman lets it bounce. And watches it turn and hit middle while offering no shot. Hurrah! Yeah felt good! But better is to come. A couple of balls later I drag one down. This is going to go wide outside off. Oh no. But these drag downs still turn! The batsman fishes after it and misses. And incredibly keeping wicket is our fast bowler who is long-limbed and highly athletic. He scoops up the waywyard child and whips off the bails. Square leg umpire puts up the finger. As the batsman trudges off the other umpire signals the wide. Stumped off a wide... :)
 
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My left arm chinaman bowling is having trouble with accuracy. I bowled six overs in a districts match last week. My first over was all short, with the ball sticking to my fingers. My second over got two boundaries hit off it. They were going to take me off at my third over, but I got a wicket, bowling short on the leg side which square leg caught. My fourth over got two wickets on the last two balls: The fifth ball was a good length on the legside to a leftie, hitting it to 45 degree square leg. Then on my last bowl, i heard the non striker say to the new batsman: "Hes a left arm leggie." So i thought to my self, "hes going to expect it to spin across him and not away." A perfect opportunity for a faster ball or a wrongun. The captain said to do a wrongun. I tried my first ever wrong un in a game and guess what? He danced down the wicket, the bowl spun, beat his bat and he got stumped! We all cheered. I got another over, because i was on a hat-trick. I bowled another wrong un for the first ball and the batsman edged it over slip. Everyone was so disappointed and annyoed.
 
Chino#21 said:
I am also a Chinaman, so I can sympathize. Bowling left arm unorthodox leaves you with the smallest margin for error out of all the bowlers. Bowling to right-handed batsmen is especially challenging in this regard. Left-handers are a lot easier, since you are almost always bowling the right line if you turn the ball enough, and just have to pitch the ball on the ideal length, but to right-handers you have to get your line perfect as well or you'll get slogged to the leg-side.

Your accuracy will improve with experience and practice, but I'd also advise that you decide early on whether you'd be more comfortable bowling from over, or around the wickets. My preference was always around, since I relied on my angle into the RH batsman with drift straightening it out, thereby opening up the gap to hit the stumps through the gate. But to achieve that effect you need a lot of revolutions on the ball, which makes accuracy more difficult. I'd bowl from over the wickets to be more consistent and conventional, and this angle strengthened the googly as well.

As soon as you can consistently hit the right areas and set a batsman up, most of your wickets will be the googly (stumpings and edges), or a well bowled stock ball that gets an LBW. Exceptional deliveries might bowl the batsman through the gate. But a wicket off a long-hop is still a wicket. So congratulations on the wickets you took.
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Thanks bro
 
SLA said:
Why? Leg spin is really not that hard. Most kids pick it up far easier than finger spin, it's far easier to get dip and drift, and googlies are easier than doosras. You just have to bowl full and not too slow and batsmen will struggle.
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Looks like Swann doesn't agree with you SLA.

"Leg-spin is by far the hardest thing to do in cricket," says former England bowler Graeme Swann. "The skill level is above and beyond anything else. It is just too hard to be consistent."
 
Neville Young said:
Looks like Swann doesn't agree with you SLA.

"Leg-spin is by far the hardest thing to do in cricket," says former England bowler Graeme Swann. "The skill level is above and beyond anything else. It is just too hard to be consistent."
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I know, but Graeme swan is an idiot. He doesn't really have any specialist knowledge here, he is just repeating what he heard elsewhere. I doubt if he is even a qualified coach. If he was agreeing with me I'd be worried.
 
I think you have to be very humble to admit that leg spin is more difficult than off spin (even though this is an obvious, objective fact) if you are an off spinner like Swann. So I admire him for recognizing this.
Every cricket player, coach, and expert that has ever had anything to say on this matter has said that leg spin is far more difficult than finger spin, particularly with regards to accuracy.
You cannot impart as much revs on the ball with finger spin, that is true. But the more revs you put on the ball the more difficult it becomes to bowl the ball, since you need to use more effort which decreases accuracy. So obviously leg spin is more difficult in every possible way.
 
SLA said:
I know, but Graeme swan is an idiot. He doesn't really have any specialist knowledge here, he is just repeating what he heard elsewhere. I doubt if he is even a qualified coach. If he was agreeing with me I'd be worried.
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Strange that an idiot has had a thousand times more professional success than you, as you are an obviously far superior cricketing revolutionary.
Also strange that he has more insight than you, even though you are a "qualified" coach, and he is not.
 
Chino#21 said:
Strange that an idiot has had a thousand times more professional success than you, as you are an obviously far superior cricketing revolutionary.
Also strange that he has more insight than you, even though you are a "qualified" coach, and he is not.
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Lol, classic spot of circular reasoning
 
Chino#21 said:
I think you have to be very humble to admit that leg spin is more difficult than off spin (even though this is an obvious, objective fact) if you are an off spinner like Swann. So I admire him for recognizing this.
Every cricket player, coach, and expert that has ever had anything to say on this matter has said that leg spin is far more difficult than finger spin, particularly with regards to accuracy.
You cannot impart as much revs on the ball with finger spin, that is true. But the more revs you put on the ball the more difficult it becomes to bowl the ball, since you need to use more effort which decreases accuracy. So obviously leg spin is more difficult in every possible way.
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A lot of people just unthinkingly repeat the same nonsense over and over again. Doesn't make it true. The idea that one form of bowling is harder than another is logically impossible.
 
Chino#21 said:
So I guess you must be a classic spot of no reasoning at all then?
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I understand why you want to believe that your style of bowling is the hardest. It helps to massage your ego when your ******** up. If it's so hard, why don't you bowl finger spin? If its so easy, you'll get a tenfer every game, won't you?
 
Chino#21 said:
Well couldn't I say exactly the same thing about you, slow left arm bowler? You are defending your own style of bowling. So your argument is useless. And I don't even play cricket anymore so why would I care about trying to defend my previously held style of bowling? When I jokingly play in the nets with friends every now and then I do bowl finger spin now, not wrist spin anymore, since finger spin IS significantly easier in every possible way, and I do believe I would have been far more successful pursuing it than wrist spin. And I am not an evil, psycopathic narcissist like yourself who needs an ego massage. Your ego has been so massaged it is literally oozing out of every single sarcastic and provocative remark that you leave on this forum. It is mind-boggling how you manage to be both so obviously incompetent yet literally the most dogmatic person on the entire internet.
The only thing you lack more than empathy and humanity is a knowledge of cricket. Your tendency to go against popularly held opinions clearly indicates some kind of psycological inferiority complex in which you have to try and establish yourself as unique and special and better than everyone else. You are possibly the only human being that can provoke even the most devout pacifist to acts of cruel violence with your frivolous arguments.
Your arguments are based solely on the deep delusions that your personality disorder causes to erupt from your bowels. I have not in all my life come across any internet troll as persistent and disillusioned as yourself. Myself and other members of the forum have held a discussion on how we should all just ignore you because you lack the empathy and patience necessary to participate in polite society. You seem so self-indulged that I am afraid you have a resemblance with some extra deluded species of Dorian Gray.
Please stop embarassing yourself and leave this forum for the greater good of humanity.
Okay I feel better now after expressing the thoughts of literally everyone who has ever discussed something with you on Bigcricket. Although most of them have just clicked ignore on your posts. I guess I'll do the same. But anyway please take my words to heart and let go of your intense dogmatism. I would gladly admit that you are right if you actually gave solid evidence and arguments to back up your claims, but sorry to say your ego is (perhaps solid, as if it is an entity of its own, but) not evidence.
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I read the first paragraph, got to the bit where you're so dumb you don't even know what type of spin I bowl, and gave up. I have better things to do than read your childish rants, sorry.
 
This poor Chino lad has had his posts removed for trolling. Think of all the time he wasted typing out all that nonsense.
 
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