So a rotation that goes straight forward?
Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)
- Thread starter Richard the Third
- Start date
So a rotation that goes straight forward?
Had first two games of the season this weekend, playing on a entirely astroturf pitch with small boundaries, which was a real experience, if something of a slog for the bowlers (there were well over 100 boundaries hit over the course of the 2 games).
On the plus side, first 50 of the year and weekend figures of 11-1-65-5. On the downside, very sore shoulder now.
On the plus side, first 50 of the year and weekend figures of 11-1-65-5. On the downside, very sore shoulder now.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Jesus that's early, fields round where I live and the paddock I practice in is soaked at moment. What was the outfield like?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Purpose made for baseball, technically, but a great place to play cricket.
My normal practice area has become a car park for the last couple of weeks so I have been working a bit more on detail as my backup practice area isn't as good.
Over the last month I discovered my accuracy was poor. Worked on my accuracy and discovered I could get good turn or decent accuracy. Clearly something isn't right so I started looking at this and with the help a two tone ball I found that I was releasing the ball with too much flying saucer which meant although I was spinning the ball and getting the seam angled towards the slips, it would generally just skid on.
Long story short, I think I'm not getting side on for long enough. In a fit of frustration during this process, I decided to have a go at a googly. Previously this seemed an unfeasibly contorted wrist position for me (and some youtube links describe it as a weird leg break where the ball flips in mid air to go the other way, WAT?? - ) but in the process of breaking things down to simpler forms, I was surprised to get moderate turn on a googly when bowled from a standing start without a follow through (essentially the kneeling drill but adapted for wet grass). Extending it to a run up and nothing. Rather than persevere too long I carried on with normal practice and filed it under curious.
So here is my theory, and I'd be interested if I'm barking up the wrong tree before I waste time working on it. The difference between the exercise and a full bowling action is how side on you are at release. In my full action my hips and shoulders are squared up, facing towards the batter. In the warm up exercise they are still very side on. It is this fact of being side on that allows the seam to point towards leg slip during bowling. If I repeat the same action (say in a mirror) then the seam comes out as a top spinner. So my theory is that the timing of the hips rotating with shoulders will be slightly different between a leg break and a googly.
If I stand in front of a mirror and go through a slow motion bowling action, I don't have the physical wrist flexibility to flick both my wrist and ring finger to impart spin in a chest on bowling position for a googly (I can sort of squeeze the ball out but it doesn't feel correct), but if I turn side on I can easily use familiar spinning action to get a very extreme seam alignment towards leg (albeit without momentum). Am I getting this completely wrong? Wondering if I should continue thinking about this?
Over the last month I discovered my accuracy was poor. Worked on my accuracy and discovered I could get good turn or decent accuracy. Clearly something isn't right so I started looking at this and with the help a two tone ball I found that I was releasing the ball with too much flying saucer which meant although I was spinning the ball and getting the seam angled towards the slips, it would generally just skid on.
Long story short, I think I'm not getting side on for long enough. In a fit of frustration during this process, I decided to have a go at a googly. Previously this seemed an unfeasibly contorted wrist position for me (and some youtube links describe it as a weird leg break where the ball flips in mid air to go the other way, WAT?? - ) but in the process of breaking things down to simpler forms, I was surprised to get moderate turn on a googly when bowled from a standing start without a follow through (essentially the kneeling drill but adapted for wet grass). Extending it to a run up and nothing. Rather than persevere too long I carried on with normal practice and filed it under curious.
So here is my theory, and I'd be interested if I'm barking up the wrong tree before I waste time working on it. The difference between the exercise and a full bowling action is how side on you are at release. In my full action my hips and shoulders are squared up, facing towards the batter. In the warm up exercise they are still very side on. It is this fact of being side on that allows the seam to point towards leg slip during bowling. If I repeat the same action (say in a mirror) then the seam comes out as a top spinner. So my theory is that the timing of the hips rotating with shoulders will be slightly different between a leg break and a googly.
If I stand in front of a mirror and go through a slow motion bowling action, I don't have the physical wrist flexibility to flick both my wrist and ring finger to impart spin in a chest on bowling position for a googly (I can sort of squeeze the ball out but it doesn't feel correct), but if I turn side on I can easily use familiar spinning action to get a very extreme seam alignment towards leg (albeit without momentum). Am I getting this completely wrong? Wondering if I should continue thinking about this?
boogiespinner
Active Member
I've just had a thought:
topspin -> superimpose flying saucer spin (anticlockwise as seen from above) = legspin
topspin -> superimpose flying saucer spin (clockwise as seen from above) = googly
This may or may not make any sense but it is how I visualise spinning a big legbreak. The topspin is the basis and I think of superimposing a flying saucer wrist action.
topspin -> superimpose flying saucer spin (anticlockwise as seen from above) = legspin
topspin -> superimpose flying saucer spin (clockwise as seen from above) = googly
This may or may not make any sense but it is how I visualise spinning a big legbreak. The topspin is the basis and I think of superimposing a flying saucer wrist action.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Dave I'd say leave the Googly for another year... 2020 maybe and work on your Leg-break. A few questions... (1) What surface are you bowling on? (2) what sort of a ball? (3) Are you spinning it hard - and how do you know you are?
Not concentrating on a googly in a serious way. More a hypothetical exercise to work on in my head. Trying to add to my understanding. I still have a fairly unsophisticated model of what I'm doing at present so just trying to build it up.
1. Bowling on a combination of tarmac and flat but unprepared grass surface. Indoor nets are carpet over gym floor.
2. Synthetic balls mostly. They are 10g (1/4 oz) lighter than a cricket ball (average weight of used balls I measured).
3. Not sure how hard I'm spinning it. I can get better seam alignment and more turn if I hold back a bit. My only evidence of spinning hard is a comment from a coaching session where the coach said I was getting plenty of revs on the ball.
I'm still practising in a fairly unsophisticated manner - try and hit a target on a good length with a good action as often as possible - but I don't think I need to be too clever for the skill level I'm at yet.
Otherwise had another good team nets session. Need to work on my length though. Only a handful of very good length deliveries. Too many short deliveries that either beat the bat and bounced over the top of the stumps, or allowed the batter to play off the back foot.
Robert Walker
New Member
My biggest problem with my bowling is that my first couple of overs tend to be wayward and out of rhythm. After that I’m fine. Any tips for getting into the rhythm early or before a match?
I'm not an experienced spinner but....
Get someone to keep a track of where you bowl in those wayward overs. Analyse and look for a pattern. Then address as appropriate.
E.g. If you are bowling legside, work out why (not side on enough? Arm too low because not warmed up properly? Releasing too early because your arm is slower at the beginning of the spell etc) and then practice a corrective action. Check if you have the same symptom when training.
I think S SLA made a couple of points earlier in the thread that are appropriate here. Video replay is great for for off season work but you won't have access to it in a game so you need to develop your bowling proprioception. Make sure training is as close to practice as possible. If you warm up before training and can get on the money straight away then look at whats different in a game (stiff muscles etc) and see if you can replicate it in training so you can work out how to solve the problem.
Again, I'm neither an expert nor experienced spinner but this is the type of analysis I use in other hobbies to improve.
Good luck!
Get someone to keep a track of where you bowl in those wayward overs. Analyse and look for a pattern. Then address as appropriate.
E.g. If you are bowling legside, work out why (not side on enough? Arm too low because not warmed up properly? Releasing too early because your arm is slower at the beginning of the spell etc) and then practice a corrective action. Check if you have the same symptom when training.
I think S SLA made a couple of points earlier in the thread that are appropriate here. Video replay is great for for off season work but you won't have access to it in a game so you need to develop your bowling proprioception. Make sure training is as close to practice as possible. If you warm up before training and can get on the money straight away then look at whats different in a game (stiff muscles etc) and see if you can replicate it in training so you can work out how to solve the problem.
Again, I'm neither an expert nor experienced spinner but this is the type of analysis I use in other hobbies to improve.
Good luck!
Certainly if you're stiff, you will have an erratic length while you loosen up.
Ultimately, the diagnosis isn't as important as the treatment - if you bowl better after 2 overs, then bowl 2 overs immediately before the game starts. If that doesn't fix it, we'll have to think again.
Ultimately, the diagnosis isn't as important as the treatment - if you bowl better after 2 overs, then bowl 2 overs immediately before the game starts. If that doesn't fix it, we'll have to think again.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Something I'm going to aim to do at the start of the over is bowl 2 or 3 balls at Mid-off/Mid on or whoever is nearest before the start of the over, but I have to say I kind of feel like everyone's standing around thinking... 'C'mon on get on with you pillock'! Perhaps try that?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Sounds similar to the kind of things I do. Should be okay. It's just getting the hours in and slowly working it out for yourself what works for you.
Robert Walker
New Member
Is there a way of fixing, when the ball just isn’t coming out of the hand right. This is sometimes a problem for me in matches and I bowl half trackers or full tosses. This is compared to sometimes it just feels right and I get good turn and drift
TomBowler97
Member
Not sure if theres a way of 'fixing' it but I would try and play around with the grip. I now when I have done my gather into the crease take my thumb off the ball and thats helped me gain more control and spin.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
That just sounds like nerves and being tense, you have to try and be relaxed. As soon as you tense up, you'll start bowling all over the shop. But, it's not that easy, comes with success and experience I reckon.
Cleanprophet
Active Member
I think you have to try and really enjoy your bowling. Try to relish the chance to bowl and not worry about going for runs. It's easy for legspinners to step up to bowl with a negative mindset ("I don't want to give away easy runs", "I don't want to bowl any shockers", "I don't want to let people down" etc etc). The sort of mindset you have in the nets is the mindset you need. If the batter plays and misses, take that as a big success and enjoy it. If the batter looks a bit unsure, take that as plus and enjoy it. Even if the batter resorts to a slog, take that as a sign that he is a bit uncertain and enjoy it. If the batter smashes you for 4 runs, shrug your shoulders and forget it.