I normally do about 30 games a summer, averaging about 3 overs in T20s and 6-7 overs in league games.
Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)
- Thread starter Richard the Third
- Start date
I normally do about 30 games a summer, averaging about 3 overs in T20s and 6-7 overs in league games.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Very few Sundays. Mainly Saturday league games and 20-20s one or two nights a week.
Darth Spin
Active Member
The carpet where I practice dries out quickly so I can practice quite a lot provided there's no heavy rain on the day.
Yeah, I was not a happy bunny with that bloke the other day. He's not a coach but he plays for the first team. He's mainly a batsman but bowls spin as well. I don't mind the odd bit of advice and value feedback from batsmen in particular, but he really got on my tits the other day. I couldn't bowl a single delivery without it being assessed afterwards. "Loop it more. Pitch it on leg. That was a full toss - you must make it bounce and use the wicket. If you bowl full tosses you are a liability...." on and on it went. I was pretty close to taking myself elsewhere.
I think the bowl it flat/lob it up dichotomy is a gross oversimplification personally. If the batsman is smacking you around, its because you're doing something wrong. You need to understand what that is.
If he's coming down the track and smacking you on the full toss or half volley, then you're bowling too full and not doing enough to beat him in the flight.
If he's sitting back and hacking you away the back foot, then you're bowling too short, giving him too much time, and not doing enough to beat him off the pitch.
One tactic is to change your length, which may have the desired effect, or he may just start smacking you to another bit of the boundary. An alternative tactic is to keep the length the same but just start bowling better. but go back to those drills where you produce big dip, or bounce, or skid, or drift, or monster turn, or whatever, and figure out which one is going to cause him to mis-hit the ball.
Once a batsman starts hitting out, he rarely goes back into his shell even if you start bowling better. See it as a great opportunity to get rid of him if you can just land one on the right spot.
I have a thing where if a batsman hits me for a boundary, I like to spin the next one slightly harder and extract his middle stump. It doesn't always work but it often does.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Just updated my blog http://www.mpafirsteleven.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/homework-gibbs-reflective-practice.html and the post includes a new look at my action as I prepare for the coming season (Video). Feedback would be appreciated with regards the bowling.
If I was facing you Dave, I wouldn't fancy driving off the front foot. You get too much dip. If you could fizz it in like that on a full length and get a little bit of turn both ways - just a couple of inches either way - you could get a hatfull of wickets.
I think I'd just try and stay back in the crease and wait for the slightly short delivery or full toss. Do you find this is how most batsmen target you?
I think the key is if you can put together 6-12 balls in a row that the batsman is forced to defend, eventually he is going to think "crap I have to have a go at driving this guy" and then he's a deadman. On the other hand, if he can put away just one loose ball an over and he is going to happily just defend the rest. The key is not to give him that loose ball.
Darth Spin
Active Member
It looks like your new action has quickened your deliveries. Is this intentional? The only other comment I have is at the start your run up seems to veer off to the side before straightening out later in the video. I don't know enough to give any more critical feedback than that.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Cheers SLA! I had a very successful year before changing clubs and deciding to change my action through the crease/run-up. It's taken nearly three years to get rid of my old 'Skip' action (There's still one video on Youtube that has it) and gradually add a bound and rectify the over-rotation I used have which was massive. Despite all that in that last 'Skip' year, I bowled small Leg breaks a wrong un and a back-spinning flipper and this is what I'm working on at the minute and it's going quite well. But you've got it in a nutshell, if I could bowl consistently and more accurately with the new action it would probably be okay and that's what I'm working on. I had another bowl today and the video is uploading to youtube as I write and I've tried to rectify some of the issues I've still got. Editing the new one just now I've noticed another thing which might be detrimental, but I'll see if the youtubers spot it first before letting on and asking if it really is a problem. But yeah you're absolutely right if I could just eliminate the loose balls, leg side balls and short ones I'd be in business agian like 3 years ago!
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Yeah very much so, but to be honest I don't think I spin it enough - especially with the leg-break, it's something I need to work on. That's a good observation that one of the youtube blokes has made and I've tried to work on that today. There's another vid up-loading now as I write. I had a bowl in the nets tonight against some very good batsman and did quite well.
You spin it as must as Mushtaq Ahmed, it seemed to work ok for him.
TBH, I think Warne has distorted people's views as to what is a "normal" amount to spin the ball. 3 inches is more than enough to miss the middle and take the edge. If the googly goes the same amount the other way that's effectively 6 inches the batsman has to grope in the middle of.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Some very good balls mixed in with the occasional fulltoss/wide. The flippers in particular seem to only come out once in a while. Have you tried putting a chair or something there to represent a batsman? I find it helps.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Yeah I went through a phase of doing that when bowling round the wicket getting the ball spin round the back. Not done it for a while - might look at trying that out. I had a bowl in the nets later against some good batsmen, they seemed fairly impressed, so their some hope it seems this season as opposed to last seasons write off.
Darth Spin
Active Member
Some very nice deliveries in amongst the wayward stuff there, Dave. Good to see you have your leg break going after all the trouble you've had with it (I read over the old threads on here and it was constantly cropping up). Your paddock looks like such an idyllic place to practice, awesome scenes.
Well after saying I would practice as much as possible I then went to a stag do and didn't bowl for 6 days. Having finally recovered I went to bowl on Saturday just gone and I sucked. Big time. It had rained heavily and the turf was still damp which I compounded by spilling break fluid all over (don't ask) and I was slipping as I went into the pivot. Still I was not happy and couldn't even get the seam presentation and flick right from the standing start. I thought I had lost my stock ball even though I got the odd one right, and was worried about bowling in a match if selected.
I went down again tonight and everything was hunky dory. Did the standing start drill for 5 overs and it was coming out nicely and turning. Nice dry conditions. Then bowled stock ball for an hour, the first two went down leg side and didn't turn but after that my stock ball came back to me and I was getting consistent turn, bounce and nice seam presentation with only the odd loose delivery. Then I went round the loop for half an hour. The wrong uns are coming on leaps and bounds, I even got a couple to bounce over the stumps which was a first I think as before they would all hit the stumps if on line due to lack of pace. The top spinner was drifting down off side too much and my follow through also seems to go down off side when I bowl this which perhaps explains it. A couple of them came out nicely though. I need to work on this delivery more because as it stands the wrong un is coming out better and more reliably than the top spinner. If I am bowling my stock ball well I now find it relatively easy to adjust to these two variations.
Things that I've found make me bowl better and get more turn:-
-reminding myself to get side on properly and follow through properly
-flicking the ball lots during the week during sofa time. Sometimes I get a bit slack and stop for a few days, other times I practice lots and seem to bowl better
-not thinking about my grip during my run up. As soon as I start to think about it I seem to release the ball badly? I don't understand why but it happens.
-marking my run up properly so I'm not bowling too short from the crease.
I will post a new video by no later than Sunday - there, a deadline.
Well after saying I would practice as much as possible I then went to a stag do and didn't bowl for 6 days. Having finally recovered I went to bowl on Saturday just gone and I sucked. Big time. It had rained heavily and the turf was still damp which I compounded by spilling break fluid all over (don't ask) and I was slipping as I went into the pivot. Still I was not happy and couldn't even get the seam presentation and flick right from the standing start. I thought I had lost my stock ball even though I got the odd one right, and was worried about bowling in a match if selected.
I went down again tonight and everything was hunky dory. Did the standing start drill for 5 overs and it was coming out nicely and turning. Nice dry conditions. Then bowled stock ball for an hour, the first two went down leg side and didn't turn but after that my stock ball came back to me and I was getting consistent turn, bounce and nice seam presentation with only the odd loose delivery. Then I went round the loop for half an hour. The wrong uns are coming on leaps and bounds, I even got a couple to bounce over the stumps which was a first I think as before they would all hit the stumps if on line due to lack of pace. The top spinner was drifting down off side too much and my follow through also seems to go down off side when I bowl this which perhaps explains it. A couple of them came out nicely though. I need to work on this delivery more because as it stands the wrong un is coming out better and more reliably than the top spinner. If I am bowling my stock ball well I now find it relatively easy to adjust to these two variations.
Things that I've found make me bowl better and get more turn:-
-reminding myself to get side on properly and follow through properly
-flicking the ball lots during the week during sofa time. Sometimes I get a bit slack and stop for a few days, other times I practice lots and seem to bowl better
-not thinking about my grip during my run up. As soon as I start to think about it I seem to release the ball badly? I don't understand why but it happens.
-marking my run up properly so I'm not bowling too short from the crease.
I will post a new video by no later than Sunday - there, a deadline.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Good to hear it's going well Martin, I think that happens to all of us, you just hope one of those kind of days doesn't happen in a game! I could have played this coming weekend, but I've got family commitments, so I'm going to miss out on bowling in a friendly match which would have been a good way to start the season and have a look at how my bowling stands up to a proper test as such. Yeah 'The paddock' is a massive asset for us and so close to our house, for years I over-looked it as a place to practice because it was a total mess, you can read a blog entry here which tells the background story behind it. I'm hoping to try and get the council to help us out in some way and improve it this year.
I'm not putting in quite as much practice as you are, but every other night I'm either in the paddock for 30 + balls or I'm at the cricket ground with my sons/club and bowling there. My bowling is still not settled and exactly the same as you I have to concentrate on one or two aspects of what I'm doing and that generally makes a big difference. Bowled at the club tonight in their nets - it's a bit ropey under-foot which always puts me off and the height of the nets is far too low for my liking and the experience is always fairly negative. I reckon batsmen design cricket nets or seamers, but there's definitely a conspiracy to thwart the progress of spin bowlers built into their design! All that aside I bowled very well initially. Last few practices at the paddock have been up and down and indifferent, I'm looking forward to the first game as it does seem that I bowl a lot better when there's a bloke there it seems.
Look forward to seeing the video.
I'm not putting in quite as much practice as you are, but every other night I'm either in the paddock for 30 + balls or I'm at the cricket ground with my sons/club and bowling there. My bowling is still not settled and exactly the same as you I have to concentrate on one or two aspects of what I'm doing and that generally makes a big difference. Bowled at the club tonight in their nets - it's a bit ropey under-foot which always puts me off and the height of the nets is far too low for my liking and the experience is always fairly negative. I reckon batsmen design cricket nets or seamers, but there's definitely a conspiracy to thwart the progress of spin bowlers built into their design! All that aside I bowled very well initially. Last few practices at the paddock have been up and down and indifferent, I'm looking forward to the first game as it does seem that I bowl a lot better when there's a bloke there it seems.
Look forward to seeing the video.
Darth Spin
Active Member
I think I would just ask to be taken off if I bowled in a game like I did on Saturday, it was brutal stuff. It felt like I was starting out again. Hideous. Wisely I have decided not to have a family so far so I have an abundance of free time to learn spin. It has been like an accelarated learning course in the last 9 months. It's just so addictive. I'm rambling...
I hope you get some help with the paddock but I'd say it's fine how it is, you can see where the balls are turning and surely that's all one needs. Solitude and 22 yards, you're in business.
Dave, why do you not bowl more than 30 balls or so, is it the body saying "no"? I try to bowl for at least 90 minutes, but up to four hours. Then again I'm learning but I just take all the Philpott stuff to heart. Obsession and all that.
Anyway, after about 6 tumultuous hours (I kid you not) I have managed to transfer some new video from my Android phone to my PC (which was agony), chopped them up and uploaded them to youtube (also agony). 7 overs in total representing where I roughly am now with my leg break and variations. I can and have bowled better, like the other night, but it's probably a fair reflection of where I am. Positive and negative feedback very welcome from all (especially Doctor Tran!). The camera angle is a little low and too close to the stumps but you can still see the turn and bounce. I have another 23 minutes to upload and edit which I'll do tomorrow night after another net session (I have been picked for a league game on Sunday - yay!). I'm rambling again... vids to follow. I need a whiskey after that 6 hours of file transfer torture....
I hope you get some help with the paddock but I'd say it's fine how it is, you can see where the balls are turning and surely that's all one needs. Solitude and 22 yards, you're in business.
Dave, why do you not bowl more than 30 balls or so, is it the body saying "no"? I try to bowl for at least 90 minutes, but up to four hours. Then again I'm learning but I just take all the Philpott stuff to heart. Obsession and all that.
Anyway, after about 6 tumultuous hours (I kid you not) I have managed to transfer some new video from my Android phone to my PC (which was agony), chopped them up and uploaded them to youtube (also agony). 7 overs in total representing where I roughly am now with my leg break and variations. I can and have bowled better, like the other night, but it's probably a fair reflection of where I am. Positive and negative feedback very welcome from all (especially Doctor Tran!). The camera angle is a little low and too close to the stumps but you can still see the turn and bounce. I have another 23 minutes to upload and edit which I'll do tomorrow night after another net session (I have been picked for a league game on Sunday - yay!). I'm rambling again... vids to follow. I need a whiskey after that 6 hours of file transfer torture....
Darth Spin
Active Member
First over of leg breaks.
Darth Spin
Active Member
Second over of leg breaks:-
Third over leg breaks:-
Fourth over leg breaks:-
Around the Loop 1 - introducing the Darth Spin wrong un. Sequence is leg break (goes down leg side), top spinner (offside), wrong un x 2, leg break, top spinner (passable):-
Around the Loop 2 - sequence is leg break, top spinner (awful), wrong un, leg break, top spinner, wrong un, wrong un:-
Third over leg breaks:-
Fourth over leg breaks:-
Around the Loop 1 - introducing the Darth Spin wrong un. Sequence is leg break (goes down leg side), top spinner (offside), wrong un x 2, leg break, top spinner (passable):-
Around the Loop 2 - sequence is leg break, top spinner (awful), wrong un, leg break, top spinner, wrong un, wrong un:-
Darth Spin
Active Member
And finally for tonight Around the Loop 3. This time the sequence is leg break, top spinner, wrong un, leg break, top spinner, wrong un:-
And if you got this far thank you for watching.
And if you got this far thank you for watching.