Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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boogiespinner said:
I would say
1) Can you hit it on the full? If so do, go for boundary leaving crease if necessary
If not
2) Can you play back comfortably? If so do, give yourself room in case of off break / googly. Hit for whatever possible
If not
3) play forwards to smother the spin. Be wary of straight driving if the ball is turning. Sweep, slog sweep are sound in that they nullify turn. If you do drive then account for turn as you do

That's what I wouldn't want a batsman to do
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Yes, a batsman has 4 options against spin.

Come forward and meet the ball on the halfvolley or full toss.
Go back and across into a front on position, work the ball into the legside.
Go straight back in a sideon position and make room looking to cut.
Sweep.

The key here is that the positions you need to instinctively get yourself into to be able to effectively play the spinner are unlike any you would use against a pace bowler (at least in orthodox play). You would never back away and make room against a pace bowler, nor would you go right across and work a ball from off stump through midwicket, nor would you sweep, nor would you come down the pitch.


The 4 footwork options against pace are different:

shuffle back and across, side on, looking to cut.
rotate back and square on, looking to pull.
push right forward, side on, looking to cover drive.
small step, lean forward, front on, looking to on drive.

All small, neat, quick, compact movements, compared to the more expansive and expressive footwork required against spinners.

Its like dancing the tango instead of the waltz. The rhythm and range of your movements is completely different.

If you face a slow swing/ cutter bowler or medium pacer in amateur cricket, just treat them like a spinner.
 
This is why an ability to put big revs on a ball and do bowl it with accuracy changes the game completely. I remember Matthew Hayden talking about spin and he said he really enjoyed playing spin because it was easy runs. But he said once you face a spin bowler who is getting drift and dip it is a different story. Purely because using your feet becomes far, far more difficult.

There's some great footage of Bryce McGain bowling when he was playing State cricket and on the verge of the Australian team. He was bowling some very impressive legspin and he was getting the ball to drift very late. In the footage there is a wicket of Michael Clarke where Clarke (who is a very good player of spin) uses his feet and is beaten all ends as the ball drifts into his legs. If the bowler is getting little or no movement through the air, it really is a case of helping yourself unless that spinner is very, very consistent and accurate. This is why all young wrist spinners are usually advised to spin the ball as hard as they can before worrying about accuracy because once you can move the ball through the air it is a game changer.
 
SLA said:
Do you think your problem of constantly overthinking your action is something that probably happens to anyone who learns to bowl in later life? Perhaps this is why it is easier to teach kids than adults.
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Yeah definitely, but I've bowled a few balls tonight completely relaxed and it's gone well, hopefully that'll happen tomorrow?
 
I had a knockabout with some friends tonight on a local pitch, very nice for bowling spin on. I bowled one of the first team batsmen off stump with one of those straight flippers, flight and ultra low bounce did him.
 
Had another practice session in outdoor nets today - but it was raining, and as I was on astroturf I think this meant that many balls which should really have turned mostly just went straight on. This was a bit depressing. So I gave up bowling spin for the day and tried seam up. Great fun! I am secretly hoping to bowl 70mph one day, as well as unplayable legspin. I was managing to deliver a few balls with seam nicely vertical, and think it was moving around a bit.
 
My net is astroturf as well and it's a nightmare pivoting on it when it's wet. It's a knee or ankle injury waiting to happen. But I tell you what, it isn't half satisfying if you can get them to turn on it. If you can turn a ball on thin wet astroturf it's looking good for any amateur wicket. I say my net, really it belongs to the club but I consider it to be mine. MINE.

The tennis courts with their ace floodlights are also mine.

Oh and the other team have cancelled on us so Sunday's match is off. A 6 a side practice match will be played instead though and I love them.
 
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Darth Spin said:
My net is astroturf as well and it's a nightmare pivoting on it when it's wet. It's a knee or ankle injury waiting to happen. But I tell you what, it isn't half satisfying if you can get them to turn on it. If you can turn a ball on thin wet astroturf it's looking good for any amateur wicket. I say my net, really it belongs to the club but I consider it to be mine. MINE.
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Those astroturf pitches are dangerous when it's wet. Fortunately, we have 3g turf in our nets and only have the astroturf from about halfway down the track (which annoys some of the quicker bowlers because they can't really bowl proper short balls) but the 3g stuff dries very, very quickly and is very good for grip. In fact, the only time it is slippy is when the tiny little bits of rubber gather in a little mass of them. During the winter, I bowl to the quick bowler run ups so that you get turn every time. It turns more on that surface than on a grass pitch, but maybe only 10%-15%. You just want to see the ball turn so you know whether the legspinners and topspinners are coming out well. On a wet astroturf pitch, it's not so easy. That said, I get the ball turn every time on a wet astroturf pitch (not big turn mind you - probably about half the turn as normal). It can be annoying when batters line you up and get hold of a delivery and you know they would be beaten all ends up on a dry pitch. But it is good practice for when you get on a pitch with no turn or even a grass pitch that's just had a bit of rain on it. The ball skids on, so you make full use of that by bowling slightly back of your normal length and straight at the stumps.

The one thing to remember is that one of the main reasons you spin the ball hard is to get the ball moving through the air. The pitch may be wet but you can still induce an error from the batter by beating him in the air.
 
had a little pickup practice in the nets today. Bit depressing because my legbreaks are really not sound enough for friendlies let alone competition yet. I am getting fair revs on the ball I think and one or two came out very nicely but there's an overall lack of control. The googly is actually the stronger stock delivery for me right now, and that says something. :(

(I did clean bowl one batsman with a googly... that was encouraging)
 
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Cleanprophet said:
Those astroturf pitches are dangerous when it's wet. Fortunately, we have 3g turf in our nets and only have the astroturf from about halfway down the track (which annoys some of the quicker bowlers because they can't really bowl proper short balls) but the 3g stuff dries very, very quickly and is very good for grip. In fact, the only time it is slippy is when the tiny little bits of rubber gather in a little mass of them. During the winter, I bowl to the quick bowler run ups so that you get turn every time. It turns more on that surface than on a grass pitch, but maybe only 10%-15%. You just want to see the ball turn so you know whether the legspinners and topspinners are coming out well. On a wet astroturf pitch, it's not so easy. That said, I get the ball turn every time on a wet astroturf pitch (not big turn mind you - probably about half the turn as normal). It can be annoying when batters line you up and get hold of a delivery and you know they would be beaten all ends up on a dry pitch. But it is good practice for when you get on a pitch with no turn or even a grass pitch that's just had a bit of rain on it. The ball skids on, so you make full use of that by bowling slightly back of your normal length and straight at the stumps.

The one thing to remember is that one of the main reasons you spin the ball hard is to get the ball moving through the air. The pitch may be wet but you can still induce an error from the batter by beating him in the air.
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Our astroturf nets are grass for the run-ups which is nice (if you remember to bring spikes) but still very little turn. What I do find is that the backspinners turn like a googly - something that Peter Philpott mentions in his book.

So far this season I've played three senior matches and one junior match. Last weekend both of my junior matches were cancelled but I managed to play in the 1st XI game against Wadhurst, picking up 2 for 17. First wicket was stumped attempting a slog sweep and then the next guy in hit me for six before I got one to bounce, hit the shoulder of the bat and get him out caught by the keeper. Then on Sunday we were up against Chiddingstone and I got 2 for 14 with 2 wickets coming in three balls, both of them uppish pulls straight to deep square leg - they all count :D

Then yesterday I played for my school in a T20 game (our first match as a team) against Eltham College. I opened the bowling from one end picking up a wicket second ball, stumped, getting out a guy who I later found out was a county batsman. I then kept the run rate to under 3 an over for my last three overs. In our reply I made a solid 11* :D (and we won the match)
 
Great start to the season that is, loopy. I bowled a few overs today in a practice match. No wickets but good economy until a full toss was whacked for six in the last over. I did better with the bat top scoring for us with 20 or so. Couple of nice drives on the off side. Our batsmen were really poor.
 
loopylegspinner said:
Our astroturf nets are grass for the run-ups which is nice (if you remember to bring spikes) but still very little turn. What I do find is that the backspinners turn like a googly - something that Peter Philpott mentions in his book.

So far this season I've played three senior matches and one junior match. Last weekend both of my junior matches were cancelled but I managed to play in the 1st XI game against Wadhurst, picking up 2 for 17. First wicket was stumped attempting a slog sweep and then the next guy in hit me for six before I got one to bounce, hit the shoulder of the bat and get him out caught by the keeper. Then on Sunday we were up against Chiddingstone and I got 2 for 14 with 2 wickets coming in three balls, both of them uppish pulls straight to deep square leg - they all count :D

Then yesterday I played for my school in a T20 game (our first match as a team) against Eltham College. I opened the bowling from one end picking up a wicket second ball, stumped, getting out a guy who I later found out was a county batsman. I then kept the run rate to under 3 an over for my last three overs. In our reply I made a solid 11* :D (and we won the match)
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What a start! That is surely the best early season bowling anyone has ever posted here.
 
boogiespinner said:
had a little pickup practice in the nets today. Bit depressing because my legbreaks are really not sound enough for friendlies let alone competition yet. I am getting fair revs on the ball I think and one or two came out very nicely but there's an overall lack of control. The googly is actually the stronger stock delivery for me right now, and that says something. :(

(I did clean bowl one batsman with a googly... that was encouraging)
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Quite often when a bowler can bowl a decent googly whilst struggling to bowl a legspinner it is because they're not getting over the ball enough. The basic thing to remember is if the ball lands on a good length but the line is poor it is often down to the arm position and if the length is wrong it is often down to wrist position. A bowler who can bowl a googly but struggles with the legspinner will often find his legspinners are full and on legstump because the ball is sliding out of the side of the hand (with the back of the hand pointing downwards a little) rather than the fingers ripping over the ball (with the back of the hand facing sideways or even pointing up a little bit).

I had a little trundle in a game today. I felt I bowled about 60% of where I want to be. I was a bit disappointed that I didn't really try to rip it as hard as I can. It was taking too long for me to get any rhythm. I ended up bowling 8 overs for 29 runs and missed out on a fairly clear LBW. I was bowling entirely against a couple of young Lancs batters and they completely refused to take me on. They played quite nicely, from a technical point of view. None of the usual slogging to the legside. Lots of blocks and they scored off my two poor deliveries (full toss on legstump). Had them playing and missing a fair bit and that was about it. In the end, me and the off-spinner at the other end managed to stop them scoring enough for their team to have to take a risky declaration and our batters knocked off the runs with ease.
 
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boogiespinner said:
had a little pickup practice in the nets today. Bit depressing because my legbreaks are really not sound enough for friendlies let alone competition yet. I am getting fair revs on the ball I think and one or two came out very nicely but there's an overall lack of control. The googly is actually the stronger stock delivery for me right now, and that says something. :(

(I did clean bowl one batsman with a googly... that was encouraging)
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You need to watch that mate, get back on your leggie!
 
loopylegspinner said:
Our astroturf nets are grass for the run-ups which is nice (if you remember to bring spikes) but still very little turn. What I do find is that the backspinners turn like a googly - something that Peter Philpott mentions in his book.

So far this season I've played three senior matches and one junior match. Last weekend both of my junior matches were cancelled but I managed to play in the 1st XI game against Wadhurst, picking up 2 for 17. First wicket was stumped attempting a slog sweep and then the next guy in hit me for six before I got one to bounce, hit the shoulder of the bat and get him out caught by the keeper. Then on Sunday we were up against Chiddingstone and I got 2 for 14 with 2 wickets coming in three balls, both of them uppish pulls straight to deep square leg - they all count :D

Then yesterday I played for my school in a T20 game (our first match as a team) against Eltham College. I opened the bowling from one end picking up a wicket second ball, stumped, getting out a guy who I later found out was a county batsman. I then kept the run rate to under 3 an over for my last three overs. In our reply I made a solid 11* :D (and we won the match)
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Blimey! You're doing well and getting picked to play for the district. It'll be interesting to hear what the district coaches say about your bowling?
 
loopylegspinner said:
Got another three wickets today in front of the district coach. It was my first match for the Speldhurst U13's and we bowled them out for 50 something before reaching the total with ease. The leg-breaks are coming out nicely and I'm noticing a lot of drift as well.
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Go loopy! Sounds like there's no stopping you!
 
I have done so much seam up practice now that my shoulder has gone weak and I can scarcely turn my arm over

Not regretting it mind you.. I think it's really worthwhile practice :D
 
boogiespinner said:
I have done so much seam up practice now that my shoulder has gone weak and I can scarcely turn my arm over

Not regretting it mind you.. I think it's really worthwhile practice :D
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:eek:
Sounds like you need to have a rest then, it sounds like you might be over-doing it with your rotator cuff. Within the context of club cricket, you'd be restricted to a relatively low amount of overs, I know my older son who is 15 can only bowl 5 overs back to back and then has to wait another 10 overs before he can bowl another 5 and that's it. If you damage your rotator cuff, in most cases that's it, it doesn't ever repair 100%, so you need to be aware that you can over-do it and it does sound as though you've over-done it, as that's a classic symptom. I'd probably not bowl now for at least a week.
 
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