Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I just a reply to this and then the bloody computer crashed, so here goes again!

Yeah I'm with you on all the points that you make, but until I've got full control of the line and length with this new bigger turning Leg-Break I'll stick to 'Aim at the stumps and turn it away from the edge of the bat approach'. I noted in the nets this winter against a 1st team batsman that bowling round the wicket into his legs caused him all sorts of problems and he commented as to how effective and accurate my bowling was. But on a wicket with my current leg break and the fact that the wickets round here seem to offer very little assistance with turn a leg-side attack would be asking for trouble. I usually bowl a few balls in the Paul Harris mode of play just to see if the batsmen are weak and in one game it was effective in as you say - restricting runs, I might have taken a wickt in that game at Deep Square leg on the boundary as well? B

But overall I'll work with this new bigger turner for a month or so and if I get up to 22 yards maybe I'll try the legside attacking approach at the end of the season. I'm still totally flummoxed as to why last year I did so well and this year I'm crap though?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i had a crap game yesterday. we batted first and i volunteered to bat at the bottom of the order so i would get a proper bowl. i was meant to bat at 11, but ended up batting at 9 because i got my pads on fastest lol. there were only a couple of overs left, and i got 3 not out off of about 4 balls, but ran about 10 supporting runs.

so i got to have a proper bowl, and was given the full allotment of 7 overs, as it was only a 35 over game. were it not just a sunday friendly where the captain was trying to give me some overs, id have been pulled off after 3 for sure. i was awful.

i started out bowling at the 2 openers, of which one was a lefty. its hard enough to find my line and length as it is, without a left hand right hand combination taking singles all the time. i was scattering the ball all over the place and got slapped for plenty of runs early on. the lefty got bowled by one of the other bowlers so that got rid of him and then it was all right handers from then on. by about the 3rd over i found some rhythm, and i got their number 3 batsmen out stumped. the initial delivery was a pretty good one and just missed the stumps, but the batsman was well out of his crease and the keeper took his bails off.

then i had another over or so of poor bowling. and then i finally found my rhythm for my last 2 overs and came close to getting a couple more wickets. but i never really had enough control of the ball to work to any kind of plan or build any pressure. there were only about 3 defensive shots offered to my bowling, to give an idea of how poor it was.

the only positives are that my flipper was working fairly well and caused problems. and when i got it right i was getting pretty good turn on an unfriendly pitch. but it just wasnt good enough. i didnt have my best day in the field either, a semi-dropped catch (over my shoulder fully on the run, it was hard, but catchable) and a misfielded 4.

i need to put in a lot more practice this week, and i need to get my video camera out again. there is something inherently flawed in my action right now, and there are massive differences between what i can occasionally achieve in the nets, and what i then do in matches.

i also put a large portion of blame on my supposed "team mates" for my sloppy first few overs. before we went into the field i was bowling a few looseners in the nets, i wanted to bowl at an empty net, but one of the kids was in there with a bat. i bowl a gentle loosener, and the little **** slaps it back over my head. next ball, he does the same again!! by now i was furious and he got out of the net and one of the adults went in (for no reason, because he had already batted, i wanted an empty net), so i figured he would be sensible. and he did the same bloody thing!!! so i started my spell angry and without having bowled a good net delivery. perfect preparation. the next person that does that to me in the nets will regret it. the captain said i should have just sent them down a beamer, or a yorker at their unpadded shins. i will next time.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

also Kaneria has been dropped by Pakistan. il bet his confidence is dead right now. he was so desperate after his last performance that he swallowed his pride and approached Shane Warne in the hotel on Sunday morning (Pakistan and the Sky commentators were staying in the same hotel) and asked him if he could help him. so Warney spent a while in the middle before play on Sunday giving him guidance, and apparently Kaneria made some improvements and found it helpful.

and then he gets dropped!! he fully deserves it. not for his bowling necessarily, but for how unbelievably lazy he is in the field. hes a complete individual, with no regard whatsoever for the team. one of those players that no captain wants. i learnt the hard way how being sloppy in the field can cost you matches, it amazes me yet again that an international player can underestimate this. he obviously thought he was untouchable, but his lack of effort has cost him his spot now. good luck getting 700 wickets when youre not playing Danish.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

I love fielding, even though I'm as old as I am I still really go for it and get loads of praise for the effort I put in. Yesterday we fielded with only 10 blokes so as you can imagine how many gaps there were and the opportunities for the oppo to get the ball in the gaps. Meant I was fielding at a deep Mid On covering 1/6th of the filed with the next nearest bloke at Square Leg, but I saved a few fours restricting them to 2's and 3's which is always good. Sloppy fielding - especially from young blokes, who as far as I'm concerned should be Collingwood-esque in their abilities and committment and it really P**s me off when they're Kaneria-esque. Probably down to the fact that they're primarily brought up within the culture of 'Soccer' in this country and they see adults going down in that game in supposed agony after being clipped across the shin pads, so they follow suit? My favourite saying at the minute when my kids and others get a cricket ball in the teeth, nuts, shins or eye is 'Get up - this isn't a football game....... get on with it'!

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i hate lazy fielding as well. i dont mind occasional mistakes, everyone is human, just so long as people are putting in 100% effort. its definitely kids that tend to put in the least effort, especially at adult level. cocky kids playing in adult teams really annoy me. thats when you wish you were a fast bowler with a bouncer to put them in their place.

i forgot to add to my post earlier about my clubs wickets. they are REALLY soft, and its proving quite a major problem for my bowling. i bowl best on hard pitches, im slow enough as it is, so i dont need the pitch stealing any more of my pace. but my clubs wicket is super slow, and lacking in bounce, so its far too predictable, and far too easy for batsmen to time their shots. the only saving grace is the uneven bounce, which can sometimes help out. the pitch also has a tendency to make the ball stand up off the pitch, so you have to over-pitch to get batsmen driving, but then they can just as easily play the ball full toss if they use their feet at all. its a conundrum.

i dont really know what i can do to resolve the issue. the pitch is never going to be any harder, so i guess my only option is to increase the pace of my bowling (which will also mean a flatter trajectory, and thus the ball will skid a bit more rather than sitting up). the other alternative is to move clubs to one that has a rock hard pitch, but i like my current club so that isnt really an option.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Is it crumbling and how many strips do they have and how many games get played on it each week? Other than that - what about your away games?

The Grays wickets were usually hard in appearence, but didn't offer any great bounce and then around about now they'd start to crumble and offer now bounce at all.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

the overall ground (e.g. the outfield) is incredibly soft. the grass holds it together, and is very thick and soft. if you throw a ball hard at the ground then it doesnt bounce back, and often breaks the surface and dust blows out. the soft outfield is really nice to field on though, as you can dive and slide around without risk of injury. but its also slow, both for the ball and for running.

on the actual square its a little better, but not a lot. a century or so of heavy rollers have made it playable, but its still soft. it crumbles very easily, during 2 innings of batsmen tapping at the crease there is usually a 3-4" deep dust puddle. fast bowlers tear up the pitch when they plant their feet.

it also doesnt help that sunday games are generally played on the same wicket as the saturday game. most of the strips probably see 10 matches a year, and are prioritised based on the first XI getting the middle ones almost exclusively, with kids getting the end ones closest to the fixed boundary (3 boundaries are fences). so the best positioned strips are also the best to bowl on. yesterdays was 3 strips in, so one of the better ones. but its probably seen 6 or more matches this season! the one next to it looks very nice still. at the start of the season the pitches are probably great, they just fade away as the season progresses.

groundwork is mainly overseen by the club captain who is up at the ground several evenings a week and does a good job. there are then a dozen or so guys that rotate ground duty one night a week. ive volunteered my services as id like to learn more about preparing pitches, and also because better pitches directly benefit my bowling!! it also never hurts your selection to be a proper club man, and team player. lazy players overlook this, they just want to show up on saturday/sunday and play.

ultimately though, even that much effort isnt enough to produce really nice pitches throughout the season. its not a criticism of those who prepare the pitches, just a simple fact that without a full time groundsman the pitches are never going to be amazing.

the club that i started out playing for had a semi-full time groundsman. he was up there pretty much every evening and i heard that he got paid by the club to do it. their ground was naturally hard, and the wickets were also pretty hard. likewise Basingstokes ground is hard, but they also have a full time groundsman (maybe even more than 1) and the wickets are amazing. county standard, Hampshire are playing a 4-day game against Durham here starting tomorrow. bowling on a pitch like that is night and day better than my clubs. i wish id never played there though, because now everything else seems rubbish!!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Yeah - it's interesting stuff pitch maintenance, looks like a half decent job as well if it paid okay. Around here we're mostly clay based, but all the pitches have been mixed with other organic materials making the surface not so prone to cracking up as it would do if it was pure or primarily clay? The council maintains most of the pitches if not all of them in the Basildon area and they generally do a good job. B&PCC's main pitch at Mopsies Park looks a bit poorly and has done for at least the last 2 years. I don't know what it's history is and how old it is and what the maintenance program is each year, but generally it appears to be watered enough, but there seems to be a problem with getting the grass to grow and getting established? I've noted that on the paddock the secret to having a good surface that holds together is to have a good root system beneath the surface. As soon as the surface and the sub-surface are damaged the grass and the roots system are then killed basically and your simply left with a dirt compound that has nothing much to bind it together. If then the dirt/earth is watered it binds together in a way that kind of mimics layered compounds that crystalise (Fibre glass) but this binding action isn't anywhere near enough to stand up to being pounded by studded shoes. So for instance if the paddock was the get some serious rain, I could roll it and get it very flat and smooth. But without a root system holding the earth together the first time it would get used it would just break up easily. With fast drying and the level of clay/organic materials (Clay being the primary 80%)? it just cracks up within a couple of days.

The pitch at Mopsies looks like it's got a fairly high organic material content, but seed for some reason doesn't seem to take quickly and many of the strips look bare of any grass. I've not seen it in the off-season to see how it recovers over the winter. On the other hand the other pitch right near me always looks in good condition and the strips are rotated well and come October they look as though they're all in good condition and come spring they're all perfect and ready to be used again.

None of them like yours have any real bounce properties if you drop a ball on them from a height.

 

[SteveyD]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i hate lazy fielding as well. i dont mind occasional mistakes, everyone is human, just so long as people are putting in 100% effort. its definitely kids that tend to put in the least effort, especially at adult level. cocky kids playing in adult teams really annoy me. thats when you wish you were a fast bowler with a bouncer to put them in their place.

i forgot to add to my post earlier about my clubs wickets. they are REALLY soft, and its proving quite a major problem for my bowling. i bowl best on hard pitches, im slow enough as it is, so i dont need the pitch stealing any more of my pace. but my clubs wicket is super slow, and lacking in bounce, so its far too predictable, and far too easy for batsmen to time their shots. the only saving grace is the uneven bounce, which can sometimes help out. the pitch also has a tendency to make the ball stand up off the pitch, so you have to over-pitch to get batsmen driving, but then they can just as easily play the ball full toss if they use their feet at all. its a conundrum.

i dont really know what i can do to resolve the issue. the pitch is never going to be any harder, so i guess my only option is to increase the pace of my bowling (which will also mean a flatter trajectory, and thus the ball will skid a bit more rather than sitting up). the other alternative is to move clubs to one that has a rock hard pitch, but i like my current club so that isnt really an option.

Interesting, I find it to be the other way round here, although, most of the kids are kids of fathers in the team too. They have been brought up to put the effort in and they are far and away the best fielders in the club.

My suggestion for bowling on said wicket, If its really causing troubles, try just bowling stump to stump, stick a deep backwards Squiare, someone at square, someone on cow and maybe a short backwards leg ( to stop the flicks) and just let them try hitting it off the legs/stumps.

 

[SteveyD]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Hmm, I volunteered to do some at my club, but they said they dont really need anyone, as they essentially have all evenings covered
The milton ground is a nice square, when it gets a nice little water on a few days up to the weekend, it is perfect , hard underneath but a bit of softness on the top so that its not like a concrete pitch.
The outfield though is horrible. Like many places, sharing an area with a football club . . .
Plus its also got the strip facing into the setting sun (due to a drainage pipe that goes accrosss the field somewhere).


The other day the 1st captain found football stud marks on the square.. .. .. needless to say he was ballistic . Their response was "dont you wear studs?" .. .. ..

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Interesting, I find it to be the other way round here, although, most of the kids are kids of fathers in the team too. They have been brought up to put the effort in and they are far and away the best fielders in the club.

My suggestion for bowling on said wicket, If its really causing troubles, try just bowling stump to stump, stick a deep backwards Squiare, someone at square, someone on cow and maybe a short backwards leg ( to stop the flicks) and just let them try hitting it off the legs/stumps.

i set my field similarly to that. deep backward square to cover the bad ball. short square leg and short fine leg to try and dry up singles off the pads. then mid wicket at about 3/4 to cover against slogs in that direction.

it would work, if i was consistent enough to land the ball where i need to. the captain doesnt set the field in that manner, he goes with a seriously in-out field and allows the singles on the leg side which drives me nuts. he will let me set my own field initially, but unless i am on the money straight away he will change it after an over because the field doesnt work when i drop it short!

i left mid-on and mid-off completely open on sunday, which would have worked nicely. the problem was that i dropped a few balls very short and got easily smashed down the ground. so then i lost my short square leg and my short mid-off to cover the straight boundary. and then its even harder to get wickets because the singles are always on, and i cant build pressure with sloppy deliveries.

the simple answer to all of my problems is to sort my action out so its consistent. im going completely back to basics now, bowling without a runup whatsoever until i can hit the spot, WITH TURN, 95% of the time. i dont mind my accuracy being within a yard or so in any direction, but the ball only turns maybe 20% of the time as well (because the seam angle is so dependant on my release point, which is dependant on my rhythm).

im also determined to get myself side-on. front-on works, but it has too many drawbacks with consistency. it may be my natural action, but i reckon with enough work i can alter it. my shin pain is barely an issue now, i think that ive loosened and strengthened the lower leg muscles, and as they strengthen even more i reckon it might not matter whether i over-strain them in future.

 

[SteveyD]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

the simple answer to all of my problems is to sort my action out so its consistent. im going completely back to basics now, bowling without a runup whatsoever until i can hit the spot, WITH TURN, 95% of the time. i dont mind my accuracy being within a yard or so in any direction, but the ball only turns maybe 20% of the time as well (because the seam angle is so dependant on my release point, which is dependant on my rhythm).

You surely wont be able to get the length at all right though, with no runup you have no natural rhythm so I estimate you'll be a few yards short and wont achieve any accuracy at all :\

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

You surely wont be able to get the length at all right though, with no runup you have no natural rhythm so I estimate you'll be a few yards short and wont achieve any accuracy at all :\

by no run up im basically talking about bowling off of one step. i find i can bowl very well like this as the weight transfer is a lot slower, so i have a lot more control over my release point and thus its easier to flight the ball correctly for good line, length and spin. i dont plan to bowl in matches without a run up though, it would be super slow, but at the same time it would probably work really effectively!!

im tempted to take a few weeks off from bowling, and ask to bat up the order instead (which would be good batting practice, and i plan to be an all rounded by next season anyway). then just to save my bowling for net practice until its improved substantially. bowling in matches at the moment isnt helping me. its also making me look worse to the captains and other players than i probably really am. i dont know what i was doing at the start of the season when i actually managed a few solid performances, and why it worked, but for some reason its just completely gone now.

i dont think its a coincidence that my bowling has deteriorated whilst ive not been using my camcorder. i definitely need to take it with me for my practices if im going to be messing around with my action.

 

[SteveyD]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

by no run up im basically talking about bowling off of one step. i find i can bowl very well like this as the weight transfer is a lot slower, so i have a lot more control over my release point and thus its easier to flight the ball correctly for good line, length and spin. i dont plan to bowl in matches without a run up though, it would be super slow, but at the same time it would probably work really effectively!!

Indeed it would probably be effective to make the batsman put all the power in!
I was having run up problems at the weekend. I found the solution to be 2 quick steps followed by 3 longer strides which got me my optimal velocity and rhythm.
As long sa your exploding through the crease and are consistant, whatever works !

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Indeed it would probably be effective to make the batsman put all the power in!
I was having run up problems at the weekend. I found the solution to be 2 quick steps followed by 3 longer strides which got me my optimal velocity and rhythm.
As long sa your exploding through the crease and are consistant, whatever works !

id be one of those hand grenade dibbly dobblies that i see every weekend, but with one major difference. when i bowl like that the ball turns around corners!!! so batsmen would have a nightmare playing me if i found my line and length every ball. it actually sounds like a good idea to try. im in the wickets game at the end of the day, it doesnt matter how i get them lol. im fixated on taking wickets with perfect deliveries, which will always be the end goal. but for now maybe i should just settle for wickets, full stop. theres no such thing as a bad wicket once its written in the scorebook.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

You surely wont be able to get the length at all right though, with no runup you have no natural rhythm so I estimate you'll be a few yards short and wont achieve any accuracy at all :\

After 3+ weeks of consistent bowling in the nets (we have nets only twice a week), I finally got a bowl in the match - the last over before the 20 over break. but that was it. My analysis
1-0-1-0.(off a wide on the offside) And I believe I wasn't given another go because there were two full tosses at the end of the over that batsman tried to drive but got inner edge and it went to short midwicket.

The offspinner they get in my place goes for 9 runs off the first five balls - but the last one was hit way out almost reaching the boundary at long on where I caught it and he ends up with 4 wickets in his spell.

 

[SteveyD]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

After 3+ weeks of consistent bowling in the nets (we have nets only twice a week), I finally got a bowl in the match - the last over before the 20 over break. but that was it. My analysis
1-0-1-0.(off a wide on the offside) And I believe I wasn't given another go because there were two full tosses at the end of the over that batsman tried to drive but got inner edge and it went to short midwicket.

The offspinner they get in my place goes for 9 runs off the first five balls - but the last one was hit way out almost reaching the boundary at long on where I caught it and he ends up with 4 wickets in his spell.

Keep plugging away and show them your making the effort.
I got 6 overs at the weekend for work team, going 6-1-0-16 (the correct format being overs - maidens - wickets - runs )

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

overs-maidens-runs-wickets is the correct format (unless perhaps youre Australian, they might work the other way around, they do with their scoreboards on TV). 16 wickets for 0 runs would be mighty impressive though

 

[SteveyD]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

overs-maidens-runs-wickets is the correct format (unless perhaps youre Australian, they might work the other way around, they do with their scoreboards on TV). 16 wickets for 0 runs would be mighty impressive though

our books always have wickets-runs so you have "4 for 10" meaning 4 wickets for 10 runs. But then the other way round for score. wierd

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i found my primary problems tonight. i took a video camera down to the nets and attached it to the frame facing me. i then recorded my entire session looking at my action, and ran my hands through my hair everytime the ball looked like a good one so i could compare the differences between bad balls and good ones.

the key finding is that there is very little difference between bad balls and good ones so far as the action goes. the only difference is in the timing and rhythm. so there isnt some magic fix. it seems that all the things i try to fixate on doing i actually do subconsciously anyway without noticing.

the flaws in my action are that im massively over-striding with my front leg. to the point that as i move into my delivery stride i hop onto my back foot, my centre of gravity is then behind my back foot with my leading arm raised high and tilting me well backwards. i then rock onto my front foot in a very rigid manner, and my front foot points to about 2nd slip (hence my lack of rotation, since my foot is already in its end position), and is still stepping across, even though i was sure i corrected it. my whole body tilts to the left, and then my bowling arm comes through seemingly round-arm, which it is relative to my body. but because my body is so tilted its actually close to vertical. hence the inconsistency in turn, the tendancy to drag down and bowl short, and the difficulty in "spinning up". my upper body follows through too quickly, my legs drag behind, and im not getting up onto my front toes.

so not a lot wrong with it really

back to the drawing board. with my action the way it is it will never ever work with any consistency. il be amazed if i can fix it this season. i have doubts as to whether i can ever correct it to a point where it will work, i think whatever i do is going to be a compromise. i may end up a seam bowler yet....