Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

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Spiderlounge

Spiderlounge

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Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

I'm having issues with my shoulder at the moment.

I haven't been playing long so I'm wondering whether it's just my body being unused to the strains I'm placing on it in such a way that I just need to keep going until I build up more strength, or whether I've actually injured myself and need to rest my shoulder until it's better. So the first question is:

1. How can I tell the difference between my body merely straining to keep up and my body actually breaking under the strain?

I'm still at an early stage in learning how to bowl wrist-spin, and my action is evolving rapidly. However I seem to be unable to get away from a tendency to bowl round-arm, although there's some debate on the wrist-spinner thread as to whether I should or should not bother trying to change this from the point of view of effectiveness. So...

2. What are the pros and cons of bowling round-arm from an injury point of view?

3. If I naturally tend to bowl round-arm, is it possible that attempting to bowl with a higher arm could cause injuries?

I seem to have quite weak, fragile shoulders, and I seem to be having problems having bowled only about 35 overs-worth or less in the past week. I know that if I'm to get any good at bowling like this I will need several hours of practice per week, so I need to be physically capable of bowling this much at least without problems. Final questions:

4. What exercises can I do at home (with weights or otherwise) to strengthen the shoulder muscles I use when bowling?

5. Are there any stretches and warm-up exercises you can suggest for my shoulders (that are particular to wrist-spinners and wouldn't normally be part of a standard warm-up)?
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

Before I can answer any of this, I need to know more about the problems with your shoulder:

Is there pain?
What sort of pain?
Where exactly in the shoulder?
How long does it last?
What particularly brings this on?

... and anything else you can tell me.
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

Try these - YouTube - Rotational Push-ups

Also YouTube - Plank It

Another thing I was advised to do was to use the stretchy Terraband type things and stretch them behind the back of your head - pulling apart a smooth action not snapping at it and doing it fast.

I'd say that you'd be advised to something along these lines or what-ever Liz advises otherwise yeah you're going to potentially do some damage.
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

Liz Ward;388112 said:
Before I can answer any of this, I need to know more about the problems with your shoulder:

Is there pain?
What sort of pain?
Where exactly in the shoulder?
How long does it last?
What particularly brings this on?

... and anything else you can tell me.
Click to expand...

There's no major continuous pain, it comes if I move my shoulder certain ways and goes if I return my shoulder to a different position. If I lift my arm up so that my hand is horizontally level with and infront of my shoulder and move the arm back from "north" to "south east" or further as you look from above that seems to trigger pain at the back of and around the joint, with the same pain as I roll the arm round in a bowling action at the point my arm is vertical. Occasionally the joint seems to click a bit and that tends to briefly increase and then reduce the pain when it happens. It's a bit elusive as to exactly where the pain is so those descriptions may not be totally perfect but it's the best I can do I'm afraid.
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

Spiderlounge;388116 said:
There's no major continuous pain, it comes if I move my shoulder certain ways and goes if I return my shoulder to a different position. If I lift my arm up so that my hand is horizontally level with and infront of my shoulder and move the arm back from "north" to "south east" or further as you look from above that seems to trigger pain at the back of and around the joint, with the same pain as I roll the arm round in a bowling action at the point my arm is vertical. Occasionally the joint seems to click a bit and that tends to briefly increase and then reduce the pain when it happens. It's a bit elusive as to exactly where the pain is so those descriptions may not be totally perfect but it's the best I can do I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

I find that without doing any warming up and with over doing it I wake up the next day and have difficulty raising my arm/elbow above shoulder level even when I'm lying down. At the moment because I'm not match fit and I'm just working with some easing in exercises I'm coming away from my net sessions with slightly sore shoulders. The sensation is your arms have become too heavy to raise above your head.
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

someblokecalleddave;388118 said:
I find that without doing any warming up and with over doing it I wake up the next day and have difficulty raising my arm/elbow above shoulder level even when I'm lying down. At the moment because I'm not match fit and I'm just working with some easing in exercises I'm coming away from my net sessions with slightly sore shoulders. The sensation is your arms have become too heavy to raise above your head.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid it's not that, my arms don't feel heavy at all. It's just that certain movements are a bit painful. It does seem to be easing though. It started yesterday quite bad, largely went away this morning, then came back after I had a very short bowl (3-4 overs) this afternoon, now it's easing off again.
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

I've got a more accurate read on where the pain's coming from now:
Firstly, if I lift my arm up so that my hand is horizontally in front of my shoulder and move the arm back around horizontally, it starts to hurt once it goes past the line of my shoulders, hurting mainly at the top of the forearm, quite deep in there.
It also hurts if I stand with my arm straight and by my side, if I turn my hand and wrist around so that the back of my hand faces my hip. The pain is in the same area and slightly greater.
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

I am having trouble getting the hang of this so please forgive a few more questions :).

Are there two pain locations... Shoulder joint AND forearm?
... or is it just the forearm?
The pain in the forearm, I know you say it is on the top, but where in relation to the wrist and elbow... e.g. midway, nearer the wrist, nearer the elbow?
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

Ah, that makes more sense... if you feel down the arm from the top, mid way between front and back when the arm is at your side, about four inches, do you feel a bit of a hard lump?
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

Liz Ward;388212 said:
Ah, that makes more sense... if you feel down the arm from the top, mid way between front and back when the arm is at your side, about four inches, do you feel a bit of a hard lump?
Click to expand...
No, I can't feel a lump. The pain seems further up the bone around the joint.
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

That's good, slowly but surely, we are eliminating options ;).

It sounds like overuse of unprepared rotator cuff muscles.

You need to give them a rest, then build them up.

Out of curiosity, what do you do to warm up and cool down your muscles?

Take a look at: How to protect your shoulder from cricket injury | Cricket coaching, fitness and tips it may help.

Dave mentioned rotational press ups, which are great.
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

Liz Ward;388217 said:
That's good, slowly but surely, we are eliminating options ;).

It sounds like overuse of unprepared rotator cuff muscles.

You need to give them a rest, then build them up.

Out of curiosity, what do you do to warm up and cool down your muscles?

Take a look at: How to protect your shoulder from cricket injury | Cricket coaching, fitness and tips it may help.

Dave mentioned rotational press ups, which are great.
Click to expand...
My warm-up's based on the stretches shown on the Bob Woolmer DVD, and goes as follows:
A little gentle jogging on the spot, or running about, just to get my heart rate up a bit. (Should probably do a bit more of a warm-up...) Then on to stretches, starting at the top and working down:
Arms out, small circles gradually getting bigger.
Arm up in the air with the elbow bent back down so the hand reaches between the shoulder blades, pull back on the elbow keeping the head up.
Arm now back across the front of the torso, gently pulling the elbow further towards the other shoulder with the other arm.
Arm behind and across back, gently pulling on the wrist with the other arm.
Rotating the entire upper body by first bending to the side, then around to the front (i.e. head facing the floor) then to the other side, then back up straight and go the other way.
Then onto buttocks, hamstrings Etc but I'm guessing that's not relevant to the shoulder problem...

Yeah rotator cuff sounds about right, that would explain where and why the pain comes about. "Unprepared" definitely sounds right! Not sure how I'll manage rotational press-ups though, I struggle with normal ones... I'll get there though.

I take it by rest you mean total rest of the shoulder until the pain is entirely gone, yeah?
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

I like the "Arms out, small circles gradually getting bigger." This should be forward and backward, swinging in front and behind the body, butterfly action etc. However, you should never perform static stretches [this is where you hold a stretch] before you commence activity. These stretches should be left for after.

You also need to rotate at the waist, keeping your hips straight and still, swinging your arms around as you do so.

'Rest' does not mean no movement; mobility is very important, but it does mean no bowling for a few days.

If you struggle with press ups, I suspect you are not ready for bowling. Work on these but make sure you do so with good form. You need to perform them with wide and narrow hands and then move the hands back towards your waist so more weight is more forward. Follow the ideas on the link I sent you with respect to walking in position and using a ball.
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

I have a feeling this is going to take a while and that I'm going to have to work my way up to it. Would it be an idea to do press-ups on the stairs so I gradually put more load on i.e. start off with my feet on the floor and my hands several steps up so my body's at about 45 degrees, then once I've got some extra strength from that work down a step at a time until I'm horizontal?
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

Spiderlounge;388621 said:
I have a feeling this is going to take a while and that I'm going to have to work my way up to it. Would it be an idea to do press-ups on the stairs so I gradually put more load on i.e. start off with my feet on the floor and my hands several steps up so my body's at about 45 degrees, then once I've got some extra strength from that work down a step at a time until I'm horizontal?
Click to expand...

This would be a great idea, although you may also find this a little challenging at the moment with your shoulder the way it is. If this is the case, you can start by doing the press ups standing up against the wall. Stand 30 - 60 cms away from the wall, make sure your feet are hip width apart and parallel. Assume the press up position with your arms and lean towards the wall slowly without lifting your heels off the floor and keeping your body straight... no bending... anywhere :)
 
Re: Wrist-spinner shoulder problems

Spiderlounge;388621 said:
I have a feeling this is going to take a while and that I'm going to have to work my way up to it. Would it be an idea to do press-ups on the stairs so I gradually put more load on i.e. start off with my feet on the floor and my hands several steps up so my body's at about 45 degrees, then once I've got some extra strength from that work down a step at a time until I'm horizontal?
Click to expand...

Press-ups have never been my thing, I've got a younger brother who used to be able to knock out 60 perfect press ups in 60 seconds! I have to work up from being able to do 2 or 3 to more over a period of a week or so, but it happens. The rotational types I find are easier as well and another thing I do is instead of spending ages doing shed loads in one go which really bores me, I just knock out 10 every now and then when I can, so over a day some days I'll do 40 - 70. Yeah it's as boring as cardboard all this exercise lark, but the difference it makes with your bowling and alleviating all sorts of post match aches and pains that follow for 2 days after any solid bowling practice are all diminished.

The other thing you might try is press up from the knees, use your knees as the pivot point rather than your toes?
 
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