WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

[The Ox]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

I stand to be corrected if wrong, but for what it's worth this is my understanding.

During the week after day 1 both Lalor Stars and Eltham College made contact with the executive (not sure who) to enquire wether they had to turn up on day 2 as a first innings result was acheived. They were told that they must play on Day 2 and it could be called off at any time at the captains discretion. In a nut shell, Lalor Stars (BS) turned up for there game and Eltham College (MS) despite being told they must decided not to.

As a result EC (MS) were deemed to forfeit therefore all of there below grades were also deemd non results which had a ripple effect for the lower grades and in fact cost Diamond Creek a place in "H" grade finals and allowed our 5ths to sneak into the 4 ( and win the flag ).

Regardless of wether you agree with the decision EC were made aware that they must show up and decided not too, In recent years Captains have been held responsible for the actions of individuals and i suppose he has been held accountable after disregarding the directions of the governing body.

For what it's worth, i think the penalty for the individual is excessive and think a small suspension & club sanction would have been more appropriate. I would agree that the dvca needs to be more transparent and clubs should be made aware of charges and findings of this magnitude. If only as to serve as a deterant to others who may think about committing similar infractions.

Slight correction, it was Diamos F Grade team that missed out, our H finished 1st. Looks like what I've heard otherwise.

 

[WanderingUnity]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

OK, we seem to be getting too emotional on this subject.

As I have sorta said (and maybe not been clear) I only want the RULE clarified. The rule as it stands does not mention that you have to play on day two, its states you can call the game on game two. I AGREE it is a two-day game and I actually AGREE they SHOULD have rocked up and should have played some cricket (in the spirit of cricket). What I do not agree with is the fact the DVCA has not been transparent in its ruling, do not have a clear and succinct clarification of the intention of the rule, oh and I believe the punishment was a tad (very) harsh.

If you do not think that LS and PY in BS, BU and EL in BR whom rocked up on day two and virtually did nothing just because there is a rule that says you have to is not ridiculous and is in the spirit of the game, well mate thats just you as I reckon that rule needs clarification and substance.

I looked into ways, as I had heard talk that the DVCA where looking at making play compulsory to 4pm on day two (at a minimum) I actually approached the DVCA with a concept on how we make/encourage teams to play the full days (rule change that aligns with VTCA where you get points for wickets and runs, meaning if you are 'stuck' in the field (or playing day two after a result has been decided) you actually have something to play for as it CAN determine ladder position, (more than happy to clarify if anyone wants but if you go to MyCricket and search VTCA and look at their ladder or go to their website and look at their rulebook) I was told to not even bother raising as a RCP as it will not get through!!!

As for the narrow mindedness into repercussions, muppet I have seen a bloke playing a GF punch a supporter and not even get a year, I have heard physical and verbal threats on the fields that go unpunished (for many reasons but I suspect alot is just plain laziness) the punishment was, in mine and many people I have spoken to) too harsh, if the DVCA wanted to get the message out they probably could have done it better (and at the start of the year, detail repercussions and issues that will arise from decisions like this) If, as you have said they had alternative motives to get Kennell for something that happened the previous year then, well to me thats another issue.

Again, seems like this is rather an emotive issue and probably shouldn't really be.

Really good conversation being brought up here by all parties, I think that botyh sides of the arguement have merit.

YES, the DVCA should come out and make a set of guidelines moving forward, no need for new rules, just clarification on the existing structure.

YES, the points / % system should be looked at for games that have been decided, yet play continues, other competitions get a lot of benifits from having this system.

NO, the penalty was not harsh, LK was told not to direct his players to not turn up, but he rang around, and told them not to, as a protest to the people who make the rules. Just show up, have a laugh at the powers that be, but respect them, as they ARE the powers that be.

WHY, not take any rule changes to the executive, doesn't matter how far fetch the ideas are, that is where a board can speak about them and take on board all, or parts of the rule being presented.

Other questions, should the Club have had more responsibility and acted during the week, when wind got out of the no show that was planned, knowing that a forfeit was evident, and would cost all lower teams any chance of a win and finals action.
Very selfish from LK in that he did not at any time take in the effect that HIS decision would have on the rest of the club.

 

[F Troop]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Did anyone attend the AGM tonight at Bundoora?. If so, are you able to tell us which RCP's made it through and which were cut?.

 

[Opener2]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

4 piece ball got in. Kookaburra rocks.

 

[CowCorner]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Did anyone attend the AGM tonight at Bundoora?. If so, are you able to tell us which RCP's made it through and which were cut?.

Yep 4 piece Kooka in, confusion as to lower grades and juniors, clarification on using current stocks to come.

1 day comp knocked on the head again, a sub-committee formed and I can guarantee it will be in next season.....

Uumm dunno if any others have major implications, some increase to junior restrictions with bowling (for the good)

And a couple of free pots...

 

[F Troop]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Free Pots are always worth a mention and i'm sure they were the best part of the meeting.

 

[F Troop]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Yep 4 piece Kooka in, confusion as to lower grades and juniors, clarification on using current stocks to come.

1 day comp knocked on the head again, a sub-committee formed and I can guarantee it will be in next season.....

Uumm dunno if any others have major implications, some increase to junior restrictions with bowling (for the good)

And a couple of free pots...

Will the introduction of 4 piece balls increase ball costs for clubs?

 

[captain cuzz]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Will the introduction of 4 piece balls increase ball costs for clubs?

Yes it will - The Prez (I think) laid out a rough costing for all clubs either a couple pages back or in another thread.

Some quick searching will uncover it.

 

[F Troop]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Thanks Captain Cuzz for the info, Found PREZ's previous post on ball prices.

Will the lower grades use Kookaburra balls or are they sticking with Platypus?

 

[TGAT]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Thanks Captain Cuzz for the info, Found PREZ's previous post on ball prices.

Will the lower grades use Kookaburra balls or are they sticking with Platypus?

The top 4 grades (BS, MS, B Grade, C Grade) will all use the mid-range Kookaburra 4 piece. I believe the cost is approx $45 per ball
All other senior and junior grades will use the Kookaburra 2 piece ball. The cost is around the $30-$35 mark.
All clubs must use the same ball in the appropriate grade.
There was talk that any left over platypus balls may be used in the lower junior grades or veterans grades until used up.
The other major development concerns junior cricket and the trial of U14 games on a Friday night. There was also a questionairre asking if clubs would support a move to Friday night for U16s as well.
Overall, it was a very productive meeting and it looks like things are changing for the better in the DVCA. It's a shame that the one day comp didn't get up

 

[WanderingUnity]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

The top 4 grades (BS, MS, B Grade, C Grade) will all use the mid-range Kookaburra 4 piece. I believe the cost is approx $45 per ball
All other senior and junior grades will use the Kookaburra 2 piece ball. The cost is around the $30-$35 mark.
All clubs must use the same ball in the appropriate grade.
There was talk that any left over platypus balls may be used in the lower junior grades or veterans grades until used up.
The other major development concerns junior cricket and the trial of U14 games on a Friday night. There was also a questionairre asking if clubs would support a move to Friday night for U16s as well.
Overall, it was a very productive meeting and it looks like things are changing for the better in the DVCA. It's a shame that the one day comp didn't get up

Good decision, I like the introduction of the 4 pc ball, and going the middle tier is a good move, as the cost will be felt be all or most clubs.

I for one think that U/14's and especially U/16's should be played on a Saturday morning. These kids have school that should also be their focus, when this decision is purely based on them being able to play senior cricket on a Saturday afternoon and not be tired.

 

[Goliath]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Good decision, I like the introduction of the 4 pc ball, and going the middle tier is a good move, as the cost will be felt be all or most clubs.

I for one think that U/14's and especially U/16's should be played on a Saturday morning. These kids have school that should also be their focus, when this decision is purely based on them being able to play senior cricket on a Saturday afternoon and not be tired.

What the hell has going to school got to do with it. Instead of developing your older kids to make it easier to begin playing seniors you make it harder. At least the DVCA has increased junior overs and that is a plus. Its still not going to stop 70 or more DVCA kids heading to the HDCA this season to play 17s on Friday nights.

 

[TGAT]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

What the hell has going to school got to do with it. Instead of developing your older kids to make it easier to begin playing seniors you make it harder. At least the DVCA has increased junior overs and that is a plus. Its still not going to stop 70 or more DVCA kids heading to the HDCA this season to play 17s on Friday nights.

I couldn't agree with you more Goliath!
If the sole purpose of Junior Cricket is not to prepare kids to play Senior Cricket, then why do we bother?
Playing Junior Cricket on the same day as Senior Cricket is a conflict of interest.
If talented Juniors want to play Senior Cricket under the current format, they must do so in a fatigued state. This cannot be good for our kids or the future of our game.
Junior Cricket is not a different sport, it is the same. Many clubs run their Junior programs at a loss so as to secure the future of their Senior Club. This division between Juniors and Seniors needs to end and decisions need to be made in the best interests of the future of our great game, not to satisfy personal preferences!
Seniors and Juniors should not and cannot play on the same day if we are to develop the Senior cricketers of the future.

 

[sam_j_adams]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

I couldn't agree with you more Goliath!
If the sole purpose of Junior Cricket is not to prepare kids to play Senior Cricket, then why do we bother?
Playing Junior Cricket on the same day as Senior Cricket is a conflict of interest.
If talented Juniors want to play Senior Cricket under the current format, they must do so in a fatigued state. This cannot be good for our kids or the future of our game.
Junior Cricket is not a different sport, it is the same. Many clubs run their Junior programs at a loss so as to secure the future of their Senior Club. This division between Juniors and Seniors needs to end and decisions need to be made in the best interests of the future of our great game, not to satisfy personal preferences!
Seniors and Juniors should not and cannot play on the same day if we are to develop the Senior cricketers of the future.

Agree. Look at the local football. Seniors one day and juniors the next. Maybe the DVCA should be like some of the other leagues, Dandenong springs to mind, that plays under-age matches on a Sunday.

 

[Centre to Leg]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Good decision, I like the introduction of the 4 pc ball, and going the middle tier is a good move, as the cost will be felt be all or most clubs.

I for one think that U/14's and especially U/16's should be played on a Saturday morning. These kids have school that should also be their focus, when this decision is purely based on them being able to play senior cricket on a Saturday afternoon and not be tired.

I agree.......there is currently not enough grounds to support Under 14's or 16's along with Under 12 cricket on a Friday night.
And we should never ever move under 12's Cricket from a Friday night as this would be a huge backward step for the DVCA.
The entry level into Cricket in the DVCA is obviously Modified's, Development & regular Under 12's and the Friday evening format suits this age group perfectly. Parent's of under 12's are more likely to get involved with a club, more likely to watch their child play and get involved in DVCA Cricket if under 12's is on a Friday evening.
The Diamond Valley Exec and Clubs should never move under 12's Cricket from a Friday evening as it is vital for the entry level of young cricketers and parents alike.
I understand some clubs are having issues with lack of numbers in certain junior grades but there are often underlying factors contributing to the lack of junior numbers and it's not usually just one. Often Geographical location & Age Demographic of the area can be major factors to a decline in junior numbers. Also it often takes many dedicated volunteers to run a Junior Cricket Club and some clubs find it hard to get volunteers to help run a junior cricket club to it's full potential.
Other sports do sometimes overlap with Junior Cricket but that has been happening forever, all clubs are affected by basketball etc.
As for Private School Cricket, this also has been happening forever at schools like Marcellin etc....The DVCA would be harming their Junior Brand if they were to move under 12's Cricket from a Friday back to a Saturday.
Surely the DVCA are smarter than that.

 

[shipsides]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

hey, this is Lucas here who umpired the TU vs EC final match of Money last season.

just to clarify, the captains agreed to "concede" the game after the first day, but as per S57: "the captains may agree to end play at any time on Day 2 after a result is reached". so we told them to come back for the formality. when no EC players turned up, Ken called Davo, and confirmed that EC were told to show up. even if Luke turned up alone to concede the defeat, i would have been inclined to accept that - but alas he didn't.

also note that under "General administration fines", the exec can give any fine for whatever compensation as "Other fines at the discretion of Executive". hefty, but reasonable at the same time. furthermore:

A club will play in all matches for which it is drawn.
If it fails to do so, or if it forfeits before or during any day of a match, its opponents win on a walkover.
.....
If a club gives a walkover under this Rule or S41, all of its lower teams also lose on a walkover in that round (even if they play), but only if they are scheduled to play that weekend.

it's just the formality of separating a forefit/walkover from a concession. once again, if Luke showed up on the 2nd day, this likely wouldn't have been an issue.

 

[The Ox]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

Hmm, so we have an I grade now.

 

[bringbackdeano]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

What the hell has going to school got to do with it. Instead of developing your older kids to make it easier to begin playing seniors you make it harder. At least the DVCA has increased junior overs and that is a plus. Its still not going to stop 70 or more DVCA kids heading to the HDCA this season to play 17s on Friday nights.

Surely this is an exaggeration??? It can't be that many. That's more than 6 full teams.

 

[Goliath]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

That was an early estimate made if Mill Park, Macleod, Montmorency and Greensborough were fielding teams of 15 like Greensy did last year and 10 others at other HDCA clubs. Thats 70. Since then Greensy has only about 7 players for this year so may not have a side and looking at Monts website they aren't having a 17 side either. Heidelberg Banyule and East Ivanhoe will no doubt keep the DVCA boys they had last year. If your DVCA junior days are over then why not have another year in 17s. Im sure there are plenty of clubs out there that can accomadate you and you can still play seniors at your DVCA club on Saturdays.

 

[serg fernandez]

Re: WTF? DVCA change the rules, who knew!!!

That was an early estimate made if Mill Park, Macleod, Montmorency and Greensborough were fielding teams of 15 like Greensy did last year and 10 others at other HDCA clubs. Thats 70. Since then Greensy has only about 7 players for this year so may not have a side and looking at Monts website they aren't having a 17 side either. Heidelberg Banyule and East Ivanhoe will no doubt keep the DVCA boys they had last year. If your DVCA junior days are over then why not have another year in 17s. Im sure there are plenty of clubs out there that can accomadate you and you can still play seniors at your DVCA club on Saturdays.

Ben Lennon back to Macleod surely